Post Office (Horizon System) Offences Bill

Debate between Nigel Evans and Marion Fellows

Consideration of Lords amendments
Thursday 23rd May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. Before I call Marion Fellows, I note that earlier today Kevan Jones announced that he will not be standing at the next election. On behalf of all the victims, I thank you, Kevan, for the doughty fight that you have put up on behalf of them all. You have been absolutely amazing in what you have done. You are sitting next to Jackie Doyle-Price—I knew it was only a matter of time before she crossed the Floor. More amazing things have happened recently, so it doesn’t surprise me.

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

I had decided that I would not speak, but I feel compelled to do so. I am very pleased that the Bill has passed. I am very pleased that all the victims who have been exonerated by the Bill will be exonerated tomorrow, except those in Scotland, which I am still unhappy about. I think it is a huge pity and shame that that did not happen, and that the three sub-postmasters who came down here especially the last time the Bill was before the House did not even get a chance to hear what was being said because of the ways of this House, where nothing is ever fixed. We can bring people 400 miles, but they have to go back the same day and they cannot stay.

I want to pay tribute to someone I can safely say is my friend, the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones), for all the counsel and help he has given me. I already gave a little tribute earlier today, but I could not possibly not say thank you to Lord Arbuthnot and to the right hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson), who so stoutly defended Scotland the last time the Bill was before the House. This place is sovereign, but not when it comes to Scotland, so independence had better come soon.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I call our right hon. Friend, Kevan Jones.

Horizon: Compensation and Convictions

Debate between Nigel Evans and Marion Fellows

Monday 8th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

Mr Deputy Speaker, you were in the Chair when we last discussed the Post Office (Horizon System) Compensation Bill on 19 December. I do not think any of us who knew about the TV drama would have believed the impact it has had. It is bittersweet that it is had such an effect. It is really telling that MPs, peers, the media and many others tried to bring this issue into the public consciousness, but none of us managed to do so as effectively as a TV drama.

I thank the Minister for advance sight of his statement. Today I have been contacted by local sub-postmasters who want to meet me. They were never prosecuted, but they had shortfalls and paid money back to the Post Office. Many of them just walked away and retired, and they now have no evidence of what happened. When a sub-postmaster walks away from a post office, all the financial documentation goes back to Post Office Ltd. Can we have a thought on that, Minister?

Will the Minister confirm that all the money that went back to Post Office Ltd enhanced the profits on which, over the years, many bonuses were paid to Post Office executives? Will pressure be put on those people to repay those bonuses? I disagree with very little of the Minister’s statement, and I think there is consensus across the Chamber on this, but some words sprang out at me: “very shortly” and “in due course”. Can we please have fixed timelines for the reports?

I commend Sir Wyn Williams, whom I first met when he took on the inquiry before it became statutory. It sounds ridiculous for me to say that I was impressed by him, but I really understood that he was going to get to the bottom of what happened. He has done that in spite of grievous failures on behalf of Post Office Ltd.

There must be accountability for everyone in Post Office Ltd and Fujitsu who prosecuted and persecuted sub-postmasters over the years. I pledge that SNP Members will continue to put pressure on Governments of any colour to keep the momentum going to ensure that real justice is served, even if that involves more pressure on the former CEO and on the people who received honours because of their work for Post Office Ltd. [Interruption.] I see the Minister nodding and know he agrees with me.

Sir David Amess Summer Adjournment

Debate between Nigel Evans and Marion Fellows

Thursday 20th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Marion Fellows]

No, I will not. [Laughter.]

I thank my staff for putting up with me and my demands on them, but most of all I thank them for the work they do for folk in Motherwell and Wishaw. We all know in this place that we are only as good as those who work for us, and I am quite good—in fact I think I am very good—because of the work they do for me.

Mr Deputy Speaker, thank you for your forbearance and for allowing me to talk about the best place and the best constituency across the UK, Motherwell and Wishaw.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

And we all thank the hon. Lady for not taking that intervention from Gavin Newlands.

Post Office: GLO Compensation Scheme

Debate between Nigel Evans and Marion Fellows

Wednesday 7th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Oh, I am sorry, Darren. I forgot; it is Marion Fellows first.

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

I do not mind being forgotten, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I am glad to be called. I hope this is not being added to my two minutes.

I want to thank the Minister for giving me advance sight of his statement. I particularly want to thank the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance, and especially Alan Bates, who I have had the pleasure of speaking to at the all-party parliamentary group on post offices. I also stand here to say thank you so much to the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) and to Lord Arbuthnot. Who would have thought I would be thanking a Lord in the other place?

I stand here in the shoes of giants. I take advice from everyone as chair of the APPG, but one thing I am sure of is that there are people right across this Chamber who will be watching the progress of this new scheme carefully. We welcome it—it is long overdue—but people will be watching to make sure that it runs properly. I want to thank the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully) and also the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake), who invited me along to a meeting on this subject. It is important that people are watching, it is important that the scheme works and it is very important indeed that those who have suffered, and those who are left behind, are adequately recompensed.

UN International Day of Persons with Disabilities

Debate between Nigel Evans and Marion Fellows

Thursday 24th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Marion Fellows]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I have spoken to many people who were employed by the DWP in Scotland. They are able to compare and contrast the two regimes and they are so pleased to be working for Social Security Scotland.

Those with disabilities are fearful of being left behind once again, with the return to the parliamentary agenda of the British Bill of Rights Bill and the corresponding abolition of the Human Rights Act, if that goes ahead. Its worrying re-emergence rekindles the fears of many disability organisations regarding the removal of statutory protections for those with disabilities. At a time when we should be strengthening the protections in place for those with disabilities to ensure that they can live with as few barriers as possible, the Government risk regressing the regulatory regime for disability rights. The Human Rights Act offers a critically important mechanism for recourse for those with disabilities; abolishing it would weaken avenues for those with disabilities to enforce their rights. I would welcome the Minister telling me that I am wrong and that that will not happen, as I think we all would.

The British Institute of Human Rights has drawn my attention to a story highlighting the necessity of challenging inequality for disabled people using human rights legislation. Bryn was 60 years old and lived in supported living. He had learning disabilities, epilepsy, was non-communicative and blind. Staff at the home became concerned that Bryn had a heart condition and called a doctor from the local NHS surgery, who came to visit. Bryn had an independent mental capacity advocate who was supporting him. The advocate attended a multidisciplinary meeting to represent Bryn. At the meeting, the GP stated that he would not be arranging a heart scan for Bryn as

“he has a learning disability and no quality of life”.

Bryn’s advocate challenged that by raising Bryn’s right to life, under article 2 of the Human Rights Act, and his right to be free from discrimination, under article 14. The advocate asked the doctor whether he would arrange a heart scan if anyone else in the room was in that situation. The GP said yes and then agreed to the scan. The Human Rights Act gave the advocate the legal grounds to challenge the discrimination and take steps to protect Bryn’s life. Sadly, Bryn passed away because of his heart condition before any treatment could take place. I would like us all to reflect on that. I thank the British Institute of Human Rights for bringing that to my attention.

Clause 5 of the rights removal Bill destroys positive obligations, which is the positive duty on public officials to protect people from harm. The new Bill allows public bodies to refuse to act to safeguard people like Bryn, and to raise financial resources or operational priorities as the reasoning behind not taking action. Disability rights groups across the UK are gravely concerned that public officials will not take proactive steps to protect disabled people from harm, due to discriminatory attitudes or the resources required to protect that person, and that the rights removal Bill removes accountability for that. That is very dangerous and increases the likelihood of more awful stories like Bryn’s occurring—[Interruption.] I want to complete these points, Mr Deputy Speaker, so I beg your indulgence—[Interruption.] You are shaking your head.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Exceptionally, I will allow you to finish, but agreements were made.

[Marion Fellows]

I will be very brief.

In Scotland, we try to do things differently to foster a more inclusive society for all, based on fairness, dignity and respect—please heed those words. Although we are constrained by the limits of the current constitutional arrangement and budget, the Scottish Government continue to put measures in place to remove barriers facing those with disabilities. We want everyone to reach their full potential.

The Scottish Government have committed to introducing an overarching Scottish diversity and inclusion strategy covering Scotland’s public sector, educational institutions, justice system, transport and workplaces. The strategy will focus on the removal of institutional, cultural and financial barriers that lead to inequalities in relation to many protected characteristics, including disability.

Thank you for your forbearance, Mr Deputy Speaker. We need to look at what Scotland is doing. I hope that the Minister will agree to a meeting with me on this issue—it is a bit cheeky for me to ask at this point, but I used to have regular meetings with the disabilities Minister. I have given examples of cases, as have other Members. We need to sort this out. The Government need to respect the UN convention on the rights of persons with disabilities. We need to make life better for them, because there is a huge pool of people out there who want to work and who want to be able to live a decent life and contribute more to society. We need to, we must and we should give them that opportunity.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I call the Opposition spokesperson.

Confidence in Her Majesty’s Government

Debate between Nigel Evans and Marion Fellows

Monday 18th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

Mr Deputy Speaker, I hope you caught the Prime Minister’s surreal bravura performance, which was rather clouded by the fact he did not realise that his own Government tabled the motion. There was not a cheep about being booted out by his own party, finally, after breaching his own rules on partying while my constituents could not hold their loved one’s hand as they were dying. There was not a cheep about Marcus Rashford shaming this Government into feeding hungry, poor children during the school holidays.

As Conservative Members brag about this Government getting Brexit done, they forget that they were continually warned about what Brexit would mean for families in Scotland and the rest of the UK—£1,400 a year and a fall in GDP. Well, it has happened, folks. And the latest polling shows that more people think Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU.

There was not a cheep about being prepared to flout international law after he changed his mind on signing the Northern Ireland protocol. There was not a cheep about illegally proroguing Parliament.

Scotland has a different Government and deals with people in an entirely different way. We respect people and we treat them with dignity and respect when they need help. Here, this Westminster Parliament is believed to be sovereign, whereas in Scotland we know that that is not true; in Scotland, the people are sovereign. They elected a Parliament last year with a majority for independence, but this Tory Government are absolutely determined to keep Scotland in the Union. Self-determination apparently does not apply in Scotland. Even the—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. I want both Front Benchers to be heard with civility, please. I call Angela Rayner.

Delivery of Public Services

Debate between Nigel Evans and Marion Fellows

Tuesday 28th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. That is unparliamentary.

[Marion Fellows]

It is a quote, Sir—a quote from the Prime Minister.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I still think it is unparliamentary.

[Marion Fellows]

Oh, right then: the Prime Minister has threatened to privatise a body part out of Government agencies, including the DVLA and the Passport Office as a result of the public facing lengthy waits for vital documents.

This Government have to go, this Prime Minister has to go, and when Scotland is an independent country in Europe, we will be much better off.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

Standards in Public Life

Debate between Nigel Evans and Marion Fellows

Tuesday 7th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

If the House divides at the end of this debate, I shall be voting with the Opposition. Standards in public life are a foundation of our democracy. We must be able to have trust in those in public life, and we need Ministers, and especially a Prime Minister, to adhere to the ministerial code. Breaches of the Nolan principles and the ministerial code affect us all. It is fundamental that those in positions of power are honest and truthful; otherwise, we lose the trust of the public who elect us.

Independence is a word I am extremely fond of—indeed, I am wedded to it for Scotland’s sake—but we also need independence because we need a brake on this Prime Minister. He must not be judge and jury on the ministerial code, and I shall lay out my reasoning on this using the Nolan principles. Selflessness—denying yourself what you want for the greater good—is not what our current Prime Minister is noted for. My constituents showed selflessness during the pandemic for the common weal—the greater good. Our current Prime Minister did not. He carried on regardless, and permitted an ethos in Downing Street in which those working for him believed, as he did, that the rules did not and should not apply to them. They allowed guardians and security staff who knew wrongdoing was afoot to be belittled. Nae selflessness, then.

Again, the rules do not apply to the PM. His ethos was, “I want my flat refurbished, but I don’t want to pay for it myself.” But donations and loans were not registered with the Electoral Commission during the statutory time limit. Nae integrity there. This Government acted illegally, as judged by the High Court, by having a covid VIP lane to give money to individuals and companies run by friends and donors to the Tory party. Nae objectivity. Then there was the Owen Paterson debacle, where the Prime Minister tried to condone egregious lobbying and contracts awarded to Tory donors—a running theme. This Prime Minister and his Government believe they can do what they like, and there is nae accountability.

The Prime Minister knew he had attended parties at No. 10, but he used weasel words to try to deny it. He breached the ministerial code by using “terminological inexactitude”. For my constituents’ benefit: that is sometimes known by you as lying.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. We are not having the word “lying”. That was stressed by the Speaker at the beginning of the debate, so please will you withdraw the word “lying”?

[Marion Fellows]

I will withdraw the word “lying”, and thank you for your guidance, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I think my constituents struggle a bit with “terminological inexactitude”.

How does this Prime Minister deal with breaches of the ministerial code? Simple. You change it, or ignore it. So, nae openness. Partygate damaged our democracy, according to the Health Secretary, and since St Andrew’s day last year—189 days ago—we have heard nothing but, “We must move on. The Prime Minister saved us all during covid and he will save Ukraine. Nothing to see here, move along.” No acceptance of wrongdoing apart from set-piece apologies that were allegedly recanted at private meetings of the 1922 Committee. So nae honesty, either. To be a good—or even middling-to-good—leader, you need to have a moral compass. This Prime Minister has a well-hidden moral compass—

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Order. Was the hon. Lady trying to say that certain members of the Government were being dishonest when she said “nae honesty”?

[Marion Fellows]

Yes, I think that the Prime Minister—

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Were you are accusing the Prime Minister of being dishonest? If so, can you withdraw that, too, please?

[Marion Fellows]

Sorry. Yes, of course.

Forty-one per cent. of the Prime Minister’s own MPs want him gone, a majority of his Back Benchers want him gone and even the Scottish Tories want him gone. It is worth repeating that former Tory MSP Adam Tomkins, a professor at the University of Glasgow, said:

“When a government asserts that the laws do not apply to it…such an assertion offends not only the law itself but our very idea of constitutional government.”

The former head of the Scottish Tories, Baroness Davidson, said the Prime Minister’s position is “untenable.” The Tory party knew what it was getting when it elected this Prime Minister as party leader, as he has a track record.

The current Tory leader in Scotland, the hon. Member for Moray (Douglas Ross), has been doing the hokey-cokey on the Prime Minister: in, out, in, out. He has not been able to make up his mind, but apparently he knows now that the Prime Minister should not be in office because he has not exhibited the correct leadership.

We in Scotland have not voted for a Conservative Government for 60 years, but we keep getting them, and this one is the worst so far. The only way forward is independence. We need to break free of this corrupt Government and their leader, who does not think truth matters and who thinks the rules do not apply to him.

I never expected to be a Member of Parliament, but I have been honoured to be returned three times. During that time, I have seen for myself how the public have lost faith in politicians. We need strong, enforceable standards for those in public life, and we need stronger, more enforceable standards for Ministers, and especially the Prime Minister. We need to build back trust in politics. In Scotland we will do that best by achieving independence; and here we will do it best by supporting this motion.

Sue Gray Report

Debate between Nigel Evans and Marion Fellows

Monday 31st January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I call Marion Fellows.

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and I have enjoyed the exercise this afternoon. I also wanted to enjoy the Prime Minister’s answers to questions, but unfortunately he has ducked and dived, and done everything but answer questions about a party on 13 November, about whether he will put out the final report—

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Just ask the question!

[Marion Fellows]

Okay, I will ask the Prime Minister one more, which has been asked already. If he gets a fine—a fixed penalty fine—from the Metropolitan police after all this is over, will he pay it himself or ask a Tory donor to pay it for him?

Budget Resolutions and Economic Situation

Debate between Nigel Evans and Marion Fellows

Tuesday 9th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) [V]]

I am in no doubt that the Chancellor’s Budget will result in the continuation of Tory austerity for those on the lowest incomes, especially disabled people and children. During the global pandemic and health crisis, people have been denied vital support to ensure a dignified standard of living. Like successive Tory Governments, this Tory Government are entrenching class inequalities, which weigh heavily on people’s lives.

I welcome the extension of the universal credit £20 uplift. However, those receiving it face a sudden £1,000 cut to their incomes in six months’ time. The Chancellor must provide people with certainty and agree to make the uplift permanent. People claiming legacy benefits will not even see the £20 uplift; 60,000 Scots, including 20,000 children, will be left in poverty and forced to choose between heating and eating in a cynical attempt to force people on to universal credit, which could leave many worse off and facing a gruelling wait of weeks for their first payment. That means that 2.5 million people across the UK, 1.9 million of whom are disabled, are being denied that support.

Being disabled incurs ongoing costs. The disability price tag means that disabled people already pay a premium for normal living, but the UK Government have opted to deny them support to protect their standard of living and health at the time they need it most. Yesterday, I asked the Work and Pensions Secretary whether she had asked the Chancellor to consider extending the £20 uplift. Her answer was no. Refusing even to consider the £20 lifeline for those on legacy benefits is a complete dereliction of duty by this UK Government to the very people they are supposed to protect, particularly after anti-poverty organisations have been asking for the extension for 11 months. Instead, people claiming legacy benefits are being given a pathetic 37p a week extra. When the UK Government have stuffed billions into the pockets of their cronies for bungled contracts, it is clear whose side they are on.

The UK Budget was an all-round kick in the teeth for disabled people. There was no commitment to increasing statutory sick pay, no commitment to the real living wage and making it available for 52 weeks, no commitment to increasing funding for the Access to Work scheme to keep disabled people in work, and no commitment to a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work with a real living wage. Whether people are working or seeking work, the UK Government have yet again failed to support them.

Coronavirus has exposed the deep inequalities that exist under this Westminster Government. People in Scotland—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. Marion, you are going to have to leave it there. I am terribly sorry, but we are out of time.