Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Gibb and Carol Monaghan

Monday 20th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for School Standards (Mr Nick Gibb)]

I am happy to join my hon. Friend in commending schools that teach subjects well, such as Rainham School for Girls. Good-quality teaching is vital to encouraging more students to study STEM subjects. We are spending up to £67 million over this Parliament to recruit and train more maths and physics teachers, and we are funding programmes, such as the Stimulating Physics Network, which seek to improve the engagement of girls.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

I have no doubt that the Secretary of State is well aware of the importance of EU nationals to the higher education community, but we now have an urgent situation whereby some world-class researchers are leaving the UK and others are failing to take up positions in the first place. Will she act now by giving clear unilateral guarantees to those EU nationals that they can remain here post-Brexit, and in doing so reduce the damage currently being caused by Brexit?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Gibb and Carol Monaghan

Monday 19th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gibb]

My right hon. Friend has raised an important point. The national fair funding formula will help schools to acquire the resources that will enable them to use the discretion that we have given them in respect of how they reward teachers, especially teachers of certain subjects whom it is difficult to recruit.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

May I take this opportunity to wish the House Nollaig Chridheil agus Bliadhna Mhath Ùr?

The Association of School and College Leaders has warned that opening new grammar schools may worsen teacher recruitment. Does the Minister not think that priority should be given to incentivising teacher recruitment and retention, rather than taking the retrograde step of providing new grammars that will do nothing for teachers, pupils or parents?

[Mr Gibb]

We are prioritising teacher recruitment. We met 94% of our target last year and 93% this year, and we are recruiting more teachers in sciences than before. I think that the hon. Lady should take account of the number of teachers who are entering teacher training. She should also acknowledge that there are 456,000 teachers in our schools today, which is an all-time high, and that there are 15,000 more teachers today than there were in 2010.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Gibb and Carol Monaghan

Monday 10th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gibb]

The figures are not dissimilar to those in other professions. We realise that there are workload challenges, which was why we set up the workload challenge in 2014. There were 44,000 responses, which we analysed carefully. Three top issues were raised: dialogic deep marking, data collection and the preparation of lessons. We addressed all three issues by setting up three working parties, led and staffed by experienced teachers and headteachers. They reported and made recommendations, which we accepted, and action has now been taken.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

Thousands of EU nationals across the UK play key roles in children’s education, be it as classroom assistants, teachers, janitors or cleaners. We cannot overestimate how morale is affected by xenophobic rhetoric such as we heard last week at the Tory party conference. Does the Minister agree that it is time to do the right thing and give a solid guarantee that EU nationals can remain and contribute to our children’s education?

[Mr Gibb]

The Prime Minister has made it very clear that we expect all EU nationals resident in the UK to remain here, but of course that depends on reciprocal arrangements for British citizens living in other EU countries.

Teachers Strike

Debate between Nick Gibb and Carol Monaghan

Tuesday 5th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gibb]

Yes, my hon. Friend is absolutely right. Nothing is more important than ensuring that young people get a good education—that they master the basics of reading and writing, get good GCSEs and are prepared for life in modern Britain. I do pay tribute to all those teachers who have gone into work today, despite the NUT’s action, which is based on a ballot of less than 25% of its members. We want to make sure that no child’s education is disrupted, and I pay tribute to the fact that seven out of eight schools have refused to close.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

This strike by teachers is significant. This group of people have gone into a vocational and caring profession. They are not driven by money, but they do seek to be recognised and valued for the job they do. The ongoing erosion of teachers’ pay and conditions and their increasing workload make their vocation hard to live out, particularly when they could earn more and have better terms and conditions working in the local supermarket. It is easy to say at the Dispatch Box that teachers are valued, but actions have to match the rhetoric. Yesterday in Education questions, I asked the Minister a question, and I repeat it today: what is he doing to ensure that teachers have a nationally guaranteed level of pay? How is he working with teachers to reduce their workload? How is he protecting their terms and conditions, such as maternity and sick pay?

[Mr Gibb]

Kevin Courtney, the acting general secretary of the NUT, has made it clear that the dispute is about pay and conditions. On workload, what is disappointing about the strike is that we have been working extremely closely and constructively with all the teacher unions to tackle unnecessary workload. As a consequence of our discussions, we have established three workload groups, staffed by highly experienced teachers and headteachers. We have looked at data management, planning and dialogic marking. Those groups have all reported, and we have accepted all their recommendations. That will have a genuine effect on the top three workload issues highlighted by the Secretary of State’s workload challenge, to which 44,000 teachers responded. On teachers’ pay and conditions, as we move into a situation where more and more schools become academies, we will consult with the profession about the future of the STRB process.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Gibb and Carol Monaghan

Monday 4th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gibb]

Academies are improving their standards at twice the rate of local authority schools; that is particularly the case for primary schools that have been underperforming and have been turned into academies. After two years, they are improving their standards by 10 percentage points—twice the rate of local authority schools—and using their flexibilities to ensure that they can recruit the best teachers into their classrooms.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

Academies are able to pay higher rates of pay to keep teachers, but deregulation of pay scales means that staffing budgets can also be slashed, with the key resource—the teacher—becoming a second-class asset. What steps has the Minister taken to protect pay scales to ensure that teachers have a nationally guaranteed level of pay?

[Mr Gibb]

It is odd to hear people complaining that we are going to cut teachers’ salaries and at the same time saying that there is a shortage of teachers and that it is difficult to recruit. The free market will ensure, of course, that salaries—the jobs market—[Interruption.] We are living in a strong economy. We have to compete for our graduates with companies up and down the country. That is what will secure high salaries for the teaching profession.

[Carol Monaghan]

Tomorrow’s planned strike by members of the National Union of Teachers has come about as a result of the ongoing erosion of teachers’ pay and conditions, with entitlements such as sick leave and maternity rights under threat. How does the Minister plan to protect teachers’ maternity rights under the academy system?

[Mr Gibb]

The strike is based on a ballot in which under 25% of teachers in the NUT voted. I agree with Deborah Lawson, the general secretary of Voice, which is a non-striking teachers’ union, who has called these strikes a “futile” and “politically motivated” gesture. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has said, this strike will

“harm children’s education, inconvenience parents and damage the profession's reputation in the eyes of the public”.

Does the hon. Lady agree with that assessment?

EBacc: Expressive Arts Subjects

Debate between Nick Gibb and Carol Monaghan

Monday 4th July 2016 Westminster Hall

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

Thank you, Mr Chope. You have confused me by not being Ms Buck, but I will carry on. As always in education debates, it is interesting to compare the picture in Scotland with that in England. As a former physics teacher, I never considered physics to be any more or less worthy than any other subject. It seems as though a hierarchy of subjects is developing.

At first glance, the principles behind the EBacc seem laudable enough—a solid grounding in core academic subjects makes sense—but the argument is about the key subjects. We are all individuals—not everyone can excel at maths and science. Likewise, arts subjects do not come easily to others, including me. Scotland had a similar system to the one we are discussing today, but forcing pupils to study subjects in which they have no interest is counterproductive and has implications for pupil behaviour, engagement and attainment.

[Mr Gibb]

Does that mean that if a pupil is not interested in maths, they should be able to drop it at any point?

[Carol Monaghan]

A pupil will need a certain grounding in maths, but how many pupils need to know how to do complex algebra or calculus? Basic numeracy and literacy are different from studying subjects in great detail.

[Mr Gibb]

I think the software-games industry would have a different view.

[Carol Monaghan]

In Scotland, we are looking at how we can prepare our students for the workplace. Calculus features in only a few, specific jobs, and we need to consider that.

In Scotland, the emphasis is no longer on a suite of specific subjects, but on personalisation and choice. That has led some students to specialise in science and technical subjects, while others enjoy success in music and the arts. Despite concerns that student numbers may drop in some subjects, the overall presentation numbers have not suffered, because students can take multiple subjects in a curricular area, such as three science subjects or three arts subjects. More importantly, pupil behaviour, engagement and attainment have all improved. Because students have opted into particular subjects, they are in charge of their own decisions and are full stakeholders. The current EBacc in England, rather than allowing students to flourish, is setting some up for failure. Surely a free choice of subjects gives students, especially those from a disadvantaged background, a far better chance of success.

The hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell) opened the debate by talking about the wide range of organisations supporting the debate, how society is enriched by the arts, and the job opportunities available in the creative industry. The hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (David Warburton) talked about his experience as a musician and how music improved cognitive skills. I know something about that. In a very tough council estate in Raploch, Stirling, a music programme where primary school students were taught the fiddle saw attainment, attendance and general participation all increase as a result.

The right hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) talked about her experience as a teacher, the importance of science and the arts and how creativity is at the core of British education. I concur; as a science teacher, I know that science is not always considered to be a creative subject, but our top scientists all have creativity in common. The right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy), who has left, gave us a wonderful vision of his angelic choirboy past. It was quite hard to imagine. He talked about academic rigour and the benefits of studying the arts for creativity. As a physicist, I know that of the courses that are now developing at universities, including the University of Edinburgh, physics and music is now a joint degree. It is good to see those two subjects coming together as well as the juxtaposition of the two.

My hon. Friend the Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) talked about the importance of developing well-rounded individuals who can contribute and enrich society. The hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) talked about the unintended consequences of the current EBacc and how it could prevent creativity from flourishing. The hon. Member for Bradford South (Judith Cummins) talked about the need to align skills to industry’s requirements. The hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) talked about the benefits of the arts to health and wellbeing. The hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) talked about how we get students through the door and how different school activities can be the hook that draws them in, but she also raised concerns about pupils being forced to drop arts subjects because of the EBacc.

The hon. Member for Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood) talked about her experience as a former teacher and how theatrical experience allows some troubled students to express themselves in a different way. The Minister should consider seriously her point that the reduced value of arts subjects can contribute to low staff morale.

Scotland’s curriculum for excellence has eight curricular areas, all with equal status. The expressive arts is one of those areas. The Minister should consider the possibility of different flavours of EBacc, so that some students could have a science specialism while others had a language specialism or an expressive arts specialism, and others could do a general EBacc across a range of subjects. That would allow students both to flourish and to specialise in their chosen area.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Gibb]

I will of course listen carefully to this debate and all the representations made to the consultation, but there is a problem in this country. All the participants in the debate have talked about the arts being in addition. No one said—I listened carefully—that a foreign language is unnecessary for the majority of young people. No one said that taking two or three sciences is unnecessary for most young people. No one said that maths is not important, apart from the hon. Member for Glasgow North West (Carol Monaghan)—

[Carol Monaghan]

I do not think I said—in fact, I know I did not say—that maths was not important, although I said that basic numeracy was a requirement. What I did say was that advanced algebra and calculus were not necessary for every student to make their way in life.

[Mr Gibb]

That is where we disagree: young people living in a modern, complex society need to have mathematical skills that go beyond simple numeracy. They need to be able to do maths to the level of GCSE, which is why we have insisted that a GCSE in maths and in English are part of further education studies for students without those GCSEs.

No one in the debate is saying that those subjects should be dropped—in so far as that is concerned, we all agree. Our contention is that there is ample room to study, in addition to the EBacc subjects, the arts, economics or a vocational subject, if that is what interests the young person.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Gibb and Carol Monaghan

Monday 25th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gibb]

We do listen to teachers, and we consulted very widely on the new primary school curriculum that was published in final form in 2013 and came into force in 2014. It is on a par with the best maths curriculums for primary schools from around the world. We have very high expectations and we do not apologise for that. We need to make sure that pupils leaving our schools are able to compete in a modern world—able to survive and thrive in a modern economy such as Britain’s. That is our ambition, and I wish the Liberal party would share it too.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

At Education questions on 7 March I asked the Minister for Schools about the £35,000 income threshold for non-EU nationals and how it would impact on the recruitment and retention of STEM-qualified teachers. He told me that there was an ongoing consultation with the Home Office, but no new announcements appear to have been made on this issue. Will he answer my question today: what steps has he taken to ensure that qualified teachers will be exempt from the £35,000 threshold on earnings?

[Mr Gibb]

The consultation is ongoing and we will report to the hon. Lady and the House in due course.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Gibb and Carol Monaghan

Monday 7th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gibb]

The hon. Gentleman seemed to get a bigger cheer for mentioning Harold Wilson than he would have done if he had mentioned the current leader of the Labour party. I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman, however, about the importance of inspiring young people. University technical colleges have been established to do precisely that, and we have seen a huge increase in the number of young people taking STEM A-levels, with the number taking maths A-level going up by 18% so that some 82,000 young people are now taking it. It has become the single most popular A-level choice, while both physics and chemistry A-level entries have increased by 15%.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)]

We currently have a situation in which the income threshold for non-EU workers could be raised to £35,000, which will cause issues for many STEM teachers currently working in UK schools, as well as for teachers that could be recruited from abroad. Will the Minister explain to schools that have gaping holes in STEM teaching positions how he is working with the Home Office to ensure that we can continue to recruit from abroad?

[Mr Gibb]

As the hon. Lady will know, there is a consultation taking place with the Home Office on these very issues, and it will report in due course.

English as an additional language (Pupil Support)

Debate between Nick Gibb and Carol Monaghan

Tuesday 23rd June 2015 Westminster Hall

[Carol Monaghan]

In areas such as the Western Isles, Gaelic is still the native tongue for many people—the figure is far more than 5%, so my hon. Friend the Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil) would probably disagree with the hon. Gentleman.

On the number of pupils coming in with English as an additional language, I am not sure that any area in Scotland has a figure of 70%, but we do have figures of up to 20%. However, I am trying to explain the benefits. Certainly, in the school I was in, which had a huge number of EAL pupils—up to 50%—attainment rose greatly.

The hon. Gentleman spoke about the additional funding under the pupil premium, which is for disadvantaged pupils. He spoke about using some of that money for EAL pupils, but there is an argument for looking at dedicated funding. These pupils have a positive impact, and we need to see how we can support them. Unfortunately, in Glasgow, the Labour administration recently cut 15 EAL teachers, despite the best efforts of the opposition in the city council. That was a major blow.

We need to look at the benefits that these pupils bring. It is important to remember that we have had a £20 billion net benefit from having EU immigrants in our country and our communities, but we need to look at how we fully include them in schools and training.

The all-party group on modern languages stated:

“speaking only English is as much of a disadvantage as speaking no English.”

In terms of intellectual development and pupil attainment, having multilingual pupils is a benefit and makes great educational sense.

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that, unless we support teachers, schools and LEAs so that they can provide a proper environment in which these pupils can learn, we will have issues.

[The Minister for Schools (Mr Nick Gibb)]

I realise that this does not affect Scotland, but the English baccalaureate is a combination of GCSEs, including a modern language. Would the hon. Lady support the Government’s endeavours to get all pupils to take it to the age of 16, to ensure that more young people take a foreign language to GCSE?

[Carol Monaghan]

Taking languages at GCSE is a matter for pupils at that point in their school careers. The baccalaureate system is really robust, with pupils looking at different areas and having specialisms in different subjects, and that is really positive. However, the issue is more about language learning in the early years. There will be huge benefits if we can deal with that, whatever the additional languages are—English might be the additional language for some pupils, while, for others, it might be French, Spanish or Gaelic. The way we go about language learning is not conducive to a real, deep understanding of a language. The learning must take place far earlier, and it must be far more serious. We start picking these languages up at 11 or 12, which is why the Scottish Government are introducing them much earlier, at primary level.

To finish, I would like to talk once again about the positive impact in our schools of having pupils with an additional language, be it Polish, Urdu or Gaelic. That is positive for attainment, and we welcome those pupils in our schools, but it is important that we put in place structures that will allow them to learn properly and to access the education we provide for them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Gibb]

There are many maintained schools. I hesitate because 60% of secondary schools are now academies, so schools that I remember as maintained schools may well have converted. Good and outstanding schools throughout the country are rushing to convert to academy status. Many of them performed extremely well as maintained schools run by local authorities, and they are performing well now as academies.

[Carol Monaghan]

In Scotland, we do not have academies, although some schools might have the word “academy” in their title; we have comprehensive schools and private schools. Does the Minister agree that a school’s success is not down to its name but is the result of leadership within the school and the systems put in place to ensure that staff and pupils are supported fully?

[Mr Gibb]

I agree that a school’s success is not to do with its name, but there is something about the freedom that academy status brings that enables innovation and professional autonomy to raise standards. Again, I cite King Solomon academy. It is run by some remarkable young people, most of whom are Teach First teachers; the headteacher, Max Haimendorf, became a head teacher in his late 20s. In that school’s first GCSE results in 2014, 93% of pupils achieved five or more good GCSEs, including in English and maths. That would be a remarkable result in any school in any location, but it is particularly so given the high levels of deprivation in the area served by the school. Furthermore, 75% of pupils at the school achieved the English baccalaureate, with high levels of achievement across the ability range.

[Carol Monaghan]

The Minister mentioned some staff members: a headteacher and some inspiring teachers. Is the Minister suggesting that if the school had not been an academy, it would not have had the same success, given the staff that it has in position?

[Mr Gibb]

I am. I do not think King Solomon academy would have delivered that kind of educational attainment in that part of London had there not been an academies programme. It has freedom and autonomy, and the professional approach that it takes to how it teaches its children is very different from that of any local authority school that I have visited. It would not have been able to do that if it had been run directly by the local authority in that area.

There is, of course, more to do. Although the overall quality of education in England has dramatically improved, 1.5 million pupils are still taught in schools that are less than good. The Education and Adoption Bill, which we debated last night on Second Reading, will strengthen our ability to deal with failure, and much more swiftly. Its provisions are designed to speed up the process by which the least well-performing schools are transformed in order to bring about rapid and sustained improvements, making sure every child gets the best start in life.

We have made it clear that we want to improve the literacy proficiency of all pupils; improving the teaching of reading is a key priority for the Government. Our aim is to help every child become a confident, fluent and enthusiastic reader. The latest available data show that 84% of pupils for whom English is an additional language achieved level 4 or above in reading at key stage 2 in 2014. That is just below the national average for all pupils, which is 89%. It shows that we still have further to go if we want every child to be reading well by the age of 11.

Key to our approach is the use of systematic phonics instruction; the hon. Member for Cardiff West will have expected me to use those words. The evidence shows that systematic phonics is the most effective approach to teaching early reading. The latest phonics screening check results show that across the country there is a difference of less than half a percentage point between pupils whose first language is not English and those whose first language is English. Phonics has been used to great effect in local authorities such as Newham, where, in year 1, three times as many pupils have EAL as those who do not. Some 81% of all Newham’s pupils met the expected phonics standard, well above the national average of 74%.

At secondary school, we are ensuring that all pupils study the core academic subjects of English, maths, science, history or geography, and a language: the English baccalaureate. We know already that pupils with English as an additional language are above the national average for entry and achievement in respect of the English baccalaureate. Last year, 41% of pupils with English as an additional language entered the EBacc and 26% achieved it, compared with 39% of all pupils entering it and around 24% achieving it. We want more pupils, including those for whom English is an additional language, to achieve the EBacc. Such subjects give young people a strong foundation for progress into further study and for work, and they help to keep their options open.

My hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough focused on funding. We have supported local authorities to provide additional support for EAL pupils in their local funding formulae. Local authorities can provide additional funding to pupils who speak a language other than or in addition to English, and who entered the school system in the past three years; the hon. Member for Cardiff West touched on that issue. The vast majority of local authorities include EAL as a factor in their funding formulae, and 132 local authorities allocated funding to schools teaching 450,000 pupils with English as an additional language in 2015-16. That totalled some £267 million, with schools receiving on average about £591 for each pupil who speaks English as an additional language.

We recognise that EAL pupils are more likely to be mobile and arrive in school during the academic year. Local authorities can hold money centrally to support the growth in the number of pupils below the age of 16 in schools. That growth fund allows local authorities to top up funding in-year for schools experiencing an increase in pupil numbers due to growth in the local population. Local authorities also have the power to use a mobility factor in their funding formulae. The method allows funds to be allocated to schools with a high proportion of pupils entering in-year in the previous three years. Some 66 local authorities used the factor in 2015-16, allocating a total of £24 million through it.

In Peterborough, 18% of pupils have English as an additional language. It has the 23rd largest proportion of pupils with English as an additional language among all the different authorities. The area has seen a rise of more than 5,000 such pupils in its schools from 2014-15. I note that Peterborough City Council allocated some £3.7 million for pupils with English as an additional language in 2015-16 and that it has a growth fund of about £2.25 million.

I am enormously grateful for the support that my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough has given to this issue today. He has raised important concerns. The steps that we have taken underline our ambition to give more pupils the preparation to succeed in school, whether that is getting a place at a good university, starting an apprenticeship or finding a first job. Such steps will provide the foundations of an education system with social justice at its heart, in which every young person reaches their potential. I congratulate my hon. Friend once again for airing this important debate.