Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 24th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I have enjoyed answering—or in the hon. Gentleman’s view, not answering—his questions on many occasions and perhaps look forward to doing so again in the future. I would happily settle for two terms as Prime Minister.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Because the Prime Minister has listed a number of people who might want his job and because a leadership contest might come much sooner than he wishes, would the Deputy Prime Minister like to indicate those of his colleagues who are likely to wish to replace him? One obvious candidate is not present at the moment.

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

Er, no.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 10th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I would like to correct the hon. Gentleman, as I have it here. I said:

“As Deputy Prime Minister, I support the Prime Minister on a full range”.—[Official Report, 6 January 2015; Vol. 590, c. 143.]

That does not mean “complete range”; it does not mean the whole, as the hon. Gentleman suggests. Of course there are disagreements between myself and the Prime Minister, and of course there are disagreements between the coalition parties. I know the hon. Gentleman has not taken to the give and take of coalition government as readily as some Government Members have, but I think history will judge the two coalition parties kindly for having put the national interest first and working together, supporting each other, in order to fix the broken economy inherited from the previous Government. As he talks about support, I am delighted to hear that the Prime Minister and his party now support my party in, for instance, giving tax cuts to millions and millions of people on low and middle incomes—that was always our policy.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Will the Deputy Prime Minister be attending the lectures being given by the Rev. Lord Green, the chap who ran HSBC in such an ethical way? Apparently, he is giving lectures on “ethical banking”. Does the Deputy Prime Minister stand by the comments made by the Business Secretary when the Rev. Lord Green was made a trade Minister? The Business Secretary described Lord Green in terms of

“a powerful philosophy for ethical business.”

Even George Orwell could not have made that one up!

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

Again, the hon. Gentleman is a brave man to talk about regulation of the banking system from the Labour Benches, given his party’s total, singular failure to heed the warnings of my right hon. Friend the Business Secretary. I recall him standing there saying to the then Prime Minister, week in, week out, that the Labour party was heading for trouble because it did not regulate the banks properly. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman might want to ask questions of his own colleagues about why HSBC was able to get away with such outrageous business practices back in 2007 and 2008.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 18th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is quite rightly proud of the astonishing economic dynamism of Cambridge and the surrounding area, which was of course reflected in the first city deal. I think it is a good thing that there is now such ambition to build on that city deal and go further. I know that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has listened very carefully to my hon. Friend’s representation and is keen to push this further.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Before this Session comes to an end, why cannot the Deputy Prime Minister bring himself to apologise for having voted for and supported from the beginning the hated bedroom tax?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

Perhaps I will do so when the hon. Gentleman apologises for seeing his party going on a prawn cocktail charm offensive with the City of London, sucking up to the bankers and crashing the economy. Perhaps then we could all start apologising.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 14th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I strongly agree with the hon. Gentleman: the huge and positive effect of getting children to enjoy and relish reading is well demonstrated. In fact, a new campaign has recently been launched, with the support of The Sun and a number of campaign groups, to get children reading more. I was at a primary school just yesterday to play my bit in advertising the campaign. The more that hon. Members from both sides of the House can get involved the better, because it will mean more children reading at an earlier age.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Does the Deputy Prime Minister consider that his own deprived background and upbringing is a good example of social mobility?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

That is a characteristically sour question. I have never sought to hold myself up as some paragon of social mobility. What I care about, and what I suspect everybody in this House cares about, wherever they come from, is that we live in a country where people can live out their dreams regardless of the circumstances of their birth.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 8th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman’s party did not win a majority last time; let us see whether it succeeds this time. I think that coalition Governments are likely to recur in future, just because of the volatility of British politics, and I remain enormously proud of what we have achieved in this Government.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that those who do not particularly favour the coalition Government are taking industrial action on Thursday, including a large number of people on low wages who have been forced into acute hardship? Do I take it that the Deputy Prime Minister will condemn those people exercising their democratic rights, as his Tory colleagues will?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I point out to the hon. Gentleman, who is, as ever, livid in the delivery of his question, that the reason we have to make savings is the disastrous mismanagement of the economy by the Labour party. There is nothing fair or progressive about simply shrugging your shoulders, saying that no difficult decisions need to be taken on public sector pay and handing on this generation’s debts to the next generation. Government Members remain united, if not on all issues, on clearing up the unholy mess bequeathed to us by the people on the Labour Benches.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 7th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

No, I will not do that because there is a sincerely held difference of view. I believe that if we are to complete the job of further fiscal consolidation we need to do what pretty well every mainstream economist in the world advocates, which is a mix of, yes, public spending restraint, welfare savings and fair taxes on those with the broadest shoulders. If the Conservative party chooses to do it all through further sacrifices by the working-age poor who are dependent on welfare, that is its choice. It is not a choice that my party has signed up to.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Given that this Government have been waging war on the poorest and most vulnerable in our society, how much more is the Deputy Prime Minister willing to put up with? Is it what he came into politics for?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

For an hon. Member who has been here so long, the hon. Gentleman’s questions are truly infantile. The most regressive thing to do is to shrug one’s shoulders, like the Labour party does, and say, “We can’t be bothered to fill the black hole we have left in the public finances. We’ll let our children and grandchildren do it.” There is nothing more infantile than doing what the Labour party is doing—going around pointing at things that are expensive, but never actually spelling out how much its own policies would cost.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 19th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I strongly agree that the more we can do to help children from disadvantaged backgrounds very early on in their lives, before they even go to primary school, the more dramatic the difference—all the evidence shows this—to their subsequent ability to do well at school and go to college, university or elsewhere and get a good job. That is one of the reasons why we have increased the overall funds for early intervention from £2.3 billion to £2.5 billion, and why we have provided a new entitlement—it has never existed before—of 15 hours’ pre-school support for two-year-olds from the poorest 20% of families in the country. We will double that next year. We will also, of course, provide tax-free child care to all working families as of 2015.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Does the Deputy Prime Minister consider the Prime Minister, the Chancellor of the Exchequer and himself to be good examples of social mobility?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I do not think that the whole political class is a particularly good example of social mobility. We also need to make sure that doors are opened in many other sectors, whether the media or the law, in order to give opportunities to young people who otherwise would not have them. That is why I am delighted that 150 businesses from a range of sectors have signed up to a new business compact which I have thrashed out with them and which will ensure that young people will be able to have meritocratic access to internships in all those businesses that were not available to them before.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 9th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Would not the Deputy Prime Minister speak with more credibility about political funding if his party returned the £2.5 million given to it by a convicted criminal, Michael Brown? That money was stolen. Why not return it?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I know that things must be difficult for the hon. Gentleman at this time and that he wants to spread mud around the place, but the fact is that the issue in British politics today is how on earth it is possible that the Labour party—a so-called progressive party—is funded to the tune of £11 million by Unite, which hand-picks its parliamentary questions and its parliamentary candidates. That is why I repeat my sincere offer to use forthcoming legislation to turn the promises being made by his leader into action.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 26th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I agree with my hon. Friend. Of course, we all know that times are very difficult and that the British economy is taking time to heal. That is why it is a great tribute to the Chancellor and his team that in the Budget we have none the less found measures that will take 2 million people on low pay out of paying income tax altogether, that will give small employers and businesses around the country £2,000 off to allow them to employ more people, and that included £1 billion extra for the aerospace industry. It means that people will not face the higher petrol and fuel prices they would have faced under Labour, and it has got rid of the beer escalator and made sure that we ease the squeeze on household budgets.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Given that the Deputy Prime Minister has changed his mind on cash bonds for some visitors coming to the UK—a very different policy from the one he advocated in his Opposition days—could he put in the Library a list of the items he believed in and argued for before the election, but which he no longer believes in and, indeed, has totally changed his position on?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Wednesday 7th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

That is precisely why the centrepiece tax reform of this Government is a radical one to lift the point at which people start paying income tax to £10,000, up from £6,400, which is where we found it when we took over from Labour. When we deliver that, it will deliver a £700 tax cut to more than 24 million basic-rate taxpayers in this country, including in my hon. Friend’s constituency. We should celebrate that.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Bearing in mind that we were selling arms to the Gaddafi regime right up to the uprising, is the Deputy Prime Minister pleased that the Prime Minister is busy now selling arms to Saudi Arabia, a country where human rights are non-existent and where amputations and floggings take place frequently—and we know how women are treated there? Is that Liberal Democrat policy as well?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

As the hon. Gentleman will know, we have the strictest controls of almost any developed economy in the world governing the conditions under which we can sell arms to other countries. Nothing that we do in promoting our arms industry, which employs thousands of people in this country, impedes our ability to tell allies and other Governments where we have real concerns about their human rights record, democratic record or civil liberties record, and that is exactly what the Prime Minister has been doing this week.

House of Lords Reform Bill

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Monday 3rd September 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

As my right hon. Friend suggests, of course there is an argument that says that if one reduces the size of one Chamber—the House of Commons—but does not make the other more legitimate, all one ends up doing is strengthening the hand of an already over-mighty Executive. That argument has some force, but I have never hidden the fact that the reason why I believe that the boundary changes should not—and, indeed, will not—go ahead in 2015 is that the overall package of constitutional and political reform measures would otherwise be unacceptably unbalanced within the coalition Government.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Nearly all the Deputy Prime Minister’s party colleagues in the Lords oppose the measure; there is no doubt about their very strong opposition. Will he respond to the view that in time—in the next few months, or perhaps next year—the Prime Minister will persuade him to vote for the boundary changes? Is that a possibility?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

This statement is about the Lords, but the answer to the hon. Gentleman’s question on boundary changes is simple. I have said very clearly what we will do: we will vote against the boundary changes coming into effect in 2015. The legislation will continue, after 2015, as it is on the statute book, unless it is changed. I have been very clear about that, and nothing will change my mind.

As for House of Lords reform, it has not happened this time; if it was easy, it would have happened at some point over the past 100 years. I say this to Labour Members, who seem to be enjoying their time in opposition, in which they are taking responsibility for absolutely nothing and delivering on none of their commitments to political reform: one day, one generation of politicians will finally have to introduce a smidgen of democracy in the second Chamber. We in this country and this Parliament cannot continue trotting around the world lecturing other countries on the virtues of democracy while not introducing it in Westminster.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 10th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

As my hon. Friend knows, I am very sympathetic to that cause, but it does not constitute part of the coalition agreement. As I have been saying exhaustively over the last 24 hours, it is important for all Members, particularly those of the two coalition parties, to fulfil the spirit and letter of that coalition agreement. On the issue of the interesting demographic profile of the House of Lords, it is not just one of age; it is also very striking that close to half the people in the House of Lords come from London and the south-east. What does that say about the geographical representativeness of one of our legislative Chambers? One of the great virtues of our reforms is that it will guarantee places to people from all the regions and nations of the United Kingdom.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

If the programme motion on House of Lords reform is moved and lost, what effect will that have on the coalition?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I very much hope it will be won, as I think it would be inconsistent—this appears to be the position of the hon. Gentleman’s party—to vote in favour of the principle of reform but to deny this House the ability to deliver reform. That, in my view, would be a synthetic, skin-deep and cynical commitment to reform.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 22nd May 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

That is an excellent idea. We will include this novel proposal in our thinking. On a more serious note, all three main parties put before the country in May 2010 manifestos that committed us all collectively to House of Lords reform. If we are to honour our manifesto commitments, I think we should proceed quickly and swiftly.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Can the Deputy Prime Minister explain why so few of his own party’s Members in the House of Lords support his proposals? Indeed, Lord Ashdown is almost a lone voice. What is the explanation for that?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

The power of a whiff of ermine on people’s opinions on reform of the House of Lords has never failed to amaze me. All I can say is that the manifesto commitments of the hon. Gentleman’s party, my party and the Conservative party were clearly in favour of completing this century-long debate on the reform of the other place. I think we should now get on with it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 20th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend and I have made significant progress on those city deals, and I am pleased to announce this afternoon that the negotiation with Greater Manchester has now been concluded. This deal is a huge step forward in our devolution-rebalancing agenda, and signals the Government’s genuine commitment to unlocking the great potential of our cities. It will enable Greater Manchester to shape its own future, including through an innovative approach to economic investment—the so-called “earn back” model—that has the potential to transform how cities are incentivised to drive growth. According to people in Manchester, this deal will create 6,000 new apprenticeships, strengthen Greater Manchester’s business growth hub, creating 3,800 new jobs, and commit us to a package of transport measures. Good news for Manchester.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

May I remind the Deputy Prime Minister that it was in fact a Labour Government who removed the large majority of hereditary peers from the House of Lords? Is it not quite obvious that there will be no progress on House of Lords reform, given the intense hostility from Conservative Members sitting behind him, unless the Parliament Act is used? I previously challenged him to a bet that there would not be such a change in this Parliament. Is he willing to take that bet?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

My job is to deliver House of Lords reform, and to do so in as consensual a manner as possible. After all, all three main parties in the House committed themselves, in their manifestos, to reforming the House of Lords. Some say that this should not be a priority. I care about many things a whole lot more—such as a fairer tax system, the pupil premium and apprenticeships for young people. People defending the status quo should not elevate this issue to a status that it does not deserve. It has been debated for 100 years. Now let us get on with it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 11th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

We are doing a number of things. We have retained the previous Government’s capital spending plans; in fact, capital spending will go up slightly by the end of this Parliament. We have done much more than that. We have also introduced innovative ways in which we can marry public and private capital to invest in our transport, energy and communications infrastructures—notably the green investment bank, the first of its kind anywhere in the world. That will use £3 billion of public money to leverage in about £15 billion of private investment in the green technologies that are absolutely crucial to our economic future.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Does the Deputy Prime Minister understand the concern of many Liberal Democrat Members in the House of Lords and elsewhere who remain dissatisfied with the Health and Social Care Bill? Why is this measure going through when there is so much concern, certainly among the public, as well as among his own colleagues in the House of Lords?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

We will see how my colleagues in the other place vote. In fact, the more people have looked at the Bill, the more reassured they are that its purposes are fully in line with many of the reforms to the health service that the previous Government introduced, with less centralisation, less bureaucracy, more control by clinicians and GPs, and a more patient-centred health service, all the while enshrining and protecting the founding principles of the NHS—free at the point of use, and based on need, not on the ability to pay. The hon. Gentleman may feel that the NHS is in no need of reform at all; anyone who knows anything about the NHS and realises that it faces increasing costs accepts that it must be reformed, but of course reformed in the right way.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 5th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

The costs will, of course, be dependent on the final shape of the reforms—on exactly how large the House of Lords is and what proportion of its Members will be elected, and so forth. We have made suggestions on these issues, but we have been entirely open about wanting to listen to alternative suggestions with an open mind. That is why the Joint Committee process, which brings people together from both Houses to look at this in greater detail, is immensely important not only for improving the proposals but for giving the public a chance to scrutinise the proposals, as the hon. Gentleman suggests.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

As police investigations into phone hacking have been going on for some considerable time, is there not now a strong case for having a public inquiry, as requested from the Front Bench by my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman), particularly in view of the latest information about the hacking of a murdered person’s phone. That is so disgraceful that a public inquiry is absolutely essential.

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I totally understand the instinct for wanting something more to be done than the current police investigations. If we want the truth established, however, and if we want to turn allegations into facts and then to hold people to account and, where necessary and justified, to see prosecutions delivered, I strongly suggest to the hon. Gentleman that it is in his interest and that of all who want to see the truth properly exposed that we allow the police to get on with the investigation and ruthlessly pursue the facts and the evidence, wherever they might lead.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 24th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

The first point of which to remind my hon. Friend is that this was a manifesto commitment of all three parties. It is something that we as a country have been discussing for around 100 years or so, and we have introduced changed electoral systems to a number of Assemblies and Parliaments in the UK without referendums in the past.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

It is understanable that there is tension and disagreement between the two coalition parties on this issue, and perhaps on other matters, but it was reported last week that during a recent meeting of Tory MPs one Member described the Liberal Democrats as “yellow” followed by a second word beginning with “b” then “a” and ending in “s”. Was the Deputy Prime Minister as shocked as I was by such behaviour?

House of Lords Reform (Draft Bill)

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 17th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

It would not be up to me, or to any members of future Governments, to make such selections. Core to the proposals in the Bill for the model of 80% elected and 20% appointed is the making of appointments by an entirely independent and statutory appointments commission, the process conducted in an entirely open and meritocratic manner.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

I must tell the Deputy Prime Minister that I have never seen less enthusiasm for a Minister’s proposals on the Government Benches. He should have looked behind him.

Being a sporting sort of person—as I am sure he is—would the Deputy Prime Minister be willing to bet me whatever sum he thinks appropriate that his proposed system will not be in place, or anywhere near it, in 2015?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

Given that the hon. Gentleman and other Members in all parts of the House fought a general election last year on a manifesto commitment to House of Lords reform, given that, as I explained earlier, we have been discussing it as a country for a very long time, and given our determination in government to see the first step in these changes made in 2015, I am determined to prove the hon. Gentleman wrong.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 18th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

My own view, as someone who has always supported greater democracy in the other place and greater accountability to the British people, is that the legitimacy of the other place would be enhanced. There are plenty of other bicameral democracies around the world that have two elected Chambers of different size with different mandates, elected even by different systems, which work extremely well in striking the right balance between effectiveness and legitimacy.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Of course, it was the previous Labour Government who made sure that the large majority of hereditary peers were removed—nearly 700—from the House of Lords. Has the Deputy Prime Minister any words of congratulations for Members of the current House of Lords on the way in which they are defending democracy against gerrymandering?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nick Clegg and David Winnick

Tuesday 30th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I strongly agree with the assumption and the assertion that the previous Government got the balance wrong between liberty and security. Indeed, I think that is now acknowledged even by that great liberal, the current Labour spokesperson on Home Affairs. That is why we are conducting a review of how the anti-terrorism powers introduced by the previous Government are operating so that we can tilt the balance definitively in favour of liberty.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

If the Deputy Prime Minister is so confident on tuition fees, why does he not go to speak to the students who are demonstrating outside now? They would be very interested in his broken election promises.

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I heard the hon. Gentleman’s leader on the radio the other day saying that he was tempted to speak to the students. When asked why he did not, he said that he had something in his diary—it must have been staring at a blank sheet, which takes an enormous amount of time, does it not?