Humanist Marriages

Debate between Nia Griffith and Crispin Blunt

Thursday 27th January 2022 Westminster Hall

[Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Reigate (Crispin Blunt) on securing this debate and thank the Backbench Business Committee for granting it. The hon. Member explained very clearly what humanist beliefs are, and also talked about the care taken and the research conducted by a humanist celebrant in working with a couple to prepare for a marriage ceremony. He also set out the history of such marriages very clearly.

The most important point to make is that it is clear that the Government have undermined their own argument that all changes should wait until some sort of wholesale reform of marriage legislation. They have done so by making the temporary provisions for outdoor weddings into permanent ones. Therefore, that sets a precedent and blows out of the water the idea that everything has to wait for something that may never actually happen.

Of course, where there is a will, there is a way. The hon. Member mentioned the use of statutory instruments; indeed, in good “Blue Peter” fashion, he has one that he had prepared earlier all ready for the Minister. However, there are of course many precedents of the Government including a specific section on one topic in a Bill that mainly deals with rather different subject matter. Some Bills are the classic Christmas tree, with provisions to deal with all sorts of different matters included in them. I feel sure that the necessary will to make this change is what is needed and then an appropriate vehicle can be found, and that the skills of those drafting the Bill would prevent any problems with unintended consequences, which again has been given as an excuse for not making this change now but instead leaving it for some larger reform of marriage law.

[Crispin Blunt]

I thank the hon. Lady for her support on this issue. The statutory instrument or the powers are already there under the Act I referred to; we do not need another Bill. The Government can proceed at a time of their choosing.

[Nia Griffith]

Indeed—again, that was very well put.

We know that in Scotland, of course, under a Labour Scottish Government legal recognition was given to humanist marriages back in 2005; in the Republic of Ireland, it was given in 2012; and in Northern Ireland, it was given in 2018. In Wales, we do not have the devolved power to legislate for humanist marriages, but the Welsh Government are very supportive of the legal recognition of humanist marriages and would very much—

Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

Debate between Nia Griffith and Crispin Blunt

Tuesday 16th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)]

First, I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) and my hon. Friends the Members for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) and for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) for the hard work they have put in, particularly on the amendments dealing with humanism and pensions. I also commend their collaboration with the Government Front-Bench teams here and in the House of Lords. People often hear about conflict in Parliament, but not about the good work that goes on behind the scenes.

I do not want anything to slow the Bill’s progress on to the statute book or to delay people celebrating same-sex marriage, but a review of both humanist weddings and pensions seems a sensible way forward. I have witnessed the excellent way in which humanist celebrants can help people at funerals—a sensitive situation, particularly for those with no religious beliefs who do not really wish to engage with such beliefs at those sensitive moments. Councillor friends of mine, instead of going to a civic wedding ceremony in a chapel or a church, decided to have a humanist ceremony, which was more in keeping with their beliefs, much more honest and less hypocritical than using a chapel simply for the day of that civic ceremony. Humanist marriage ceremonies fall exactly into that category—offering an opportunity for some depth and consideration, without having to adopt some form of religious belief in a rather hypocritical and shallow way.

[Mr Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con)]

Having made such arguments on Report, I would like to record how delighted I am that the amendments on humanist weddings are to be included in the Bill. They will be as significant a part of the Bill as the same-sex marriage proposals. Many people will be affected, and I am delighted that the Government conceded the point in the other place.

[Nia Griffith]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his contribution.

Moving on to pensions and survivor benefits, again, we do not want to do anything to delay the Bill, but we want a review. It is a complex subject, and people have made wild estimates about the costs. They seem to forget that what is paid out often comes back, to some degree, in the form of taxation, so the situation is nothing like as simple as it might sound. The principle that those who have contributed have the right to the same benefits—whether they are in a same-sex or an opposite-sex marriage—is absolutely fundamental. We certainly want to make sure that that is where we get to. It will take time; it will need working out; it will need costing; it will need phasing in—but the important thing is the principle. We really want to see the review.

I support amendment 10, on humanist marriage ceremonies, and amendment 11 and related provisions, on the pension review, and I very much hope we can celebrate the passage of this Bill tonight.