Water (Special Measures) Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting)

Neil Hudson Excerpts

Tuesday 14th January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Emma Hardy)]

I thank the hon. Member for Epping Forest for tabling new clause 3, which would require a water company to reduce customer bills by an equivalent amount to the total monetary penalties paid in the previous year by that company. I will start by clarifying that we expect the cost of the penalties to be borne by the companies, not by the customers. However, I would also like to reassure the hon. Member that there are existing procedures in place to ensure that customers are reimbursed for a water company’s poor performance.

As the independent economic regulator of the water industry, Ofwat is best placed to ensure that customers are reimbursed appropriately if water companies perform poorly. Ofwat already sets specific performance targets for water companies in the five-yearly price review. Those performance commitments hold water companies to account for the outcomes that customers pay for. Where they are not met, companies must reimburse customers through lower water bills in the next financial year.

Those performance targets take a holistic view of water company performance and consider wider factors beyond companies receiving penalties. Performance targets include customer-facing commitments, such as water supply interruptions; environmental commitments, such as pollution incidents, storm overflows and bathing water quality; and commitments related to asset health, such as repairs to burst mains. As a result of underperformance in the last financial year, Ofwat is currently requiring 13 companies to return £157 million to customers.

The hon. Member’s new clause is therefore not appropriate for this Bill, given that it would overlap with existing procedures. However, there is simply not enough improvement in performance across the water industry. That is why we have launched the independent commission, which will look at issues, including performance, and make recommendations on how to transform the water sector.

I hope that the hon. Member for Epping Forest is reassured about how customers will be reimbursed for poor performance, and about the steps that we are taking to improve performance. On that basis, I ask him to withdraw his new clause.

[Dr Neil Hudson (Epping Forest) (Con)]

I thank the Minister for her comments. I am afraid that I am not fully reassured, and we would like to see provision in the Bill for any fines imposed on water companies to have a concomitant effect—a direct effect—on customer bills. This well-intended measure has been tabled to create a link between the two, so although I hear the Minister’s comments, we would still like to press new clause 3 to a vote.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Hudson]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

New clause 4 amends the Water Industry Act 1991 to insert new rules regarding the limits to the amount of money that can be borrowed by a water company, which the Secretary of State for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs would be able to enact by means of statutory instrument. Although we have discussed statutory instruments in Committee, the Opposition hope that the Government will recognise that this proposed statutory instrument power needs to be made.

New clause 4 ensures that water companies are not excessively borrowing money, as that is ultimately bad for bill payers. At the heart of our concern about financial resilience is the borrowing in the industry and the over-leveraging because of that borrowing. It is clear that there is a direct link between financial resilience, problems connected to borrowing and the very survivability of the water firms. That should be of huge concern to all of us.

Consumers are concerned that the provision of their water is at risk, and we as legislators must work out how to deal with the issues, including the financial implications, relating to the risk of nationalising the water companies that have no other way of providing services. That can reverberate back to the consumers again, who may face increased costs because of the financial support that the Government have to provide to keep water companies afloat. In other words, tackling the choices that water companies may have made, and will make in the future, including borrowing choices, is an issue that we are required to correct for the very future of our water industry.

I reiterate my profound respect for the way that both the Minister and Baroness Hayman have conducted themselves in this debate. I note that Baroness Hayman expressed concern in the other place that putting a fixed percentage limit on borrowing could be a risk to investment at a crucial time for financial resilience and investment in the water industry. That is why my Conservative colleague, Lord Roborough, revised his amendment on that in the other place to give the Secretary of State the power to set limits by means of a statutory instrument. I pay tribute to my colleague and friend Lord Roborough for working so hard to raise the issue of financial resilience in the other place through this amendment.

We are not saying that a hard limit has to be set on borrowing levels, but merely giving the Secretary of State the option to do so if they feel it necessary to protect consumers from the negative effects of the water industry. I come back to the point I made in previous sittings: giving the powers to the Secretary of State, a democratically elected Minister in His Majesty’s Government, through statutory instrument, improves democracy and accountability for the water companies. I do not think the Labour Government need to shy away from this constructive amendment, which gives the Secretary of State the ability to hold the water companies to account, as we all want to do.

If the Minister does not see the need for the amendment —I am not pre-empting her, but I imagine that is how her response will go—can she clarify how much borrowing the Government consider acceptable for a water company, and what they will do to reduce the impact on the consumer of excessive borrowing and spending? The new clause also limits the amount of dividends that can be paid out to shareholders if the water company has exceeded the borrowing limit. Should a limit be set, it would therefore make water companies fairer in their practices to bill payers, as when a company borrows it will have less of an impact on consumer bills.

While in government, the Conservatives gave Ofwat the powers to link performance to payouts to shareholders and water company management. New clause 4 further aims to protect consumers from companies that are failing to prioritise their customers. Considering those points, the Opposition believe that the Government could move a bit on this, and enact democratic accountability with the statutory instrument. We hope that they will look on new clause 4 favourably.

[Emma Hardy]

I thank the hon. Member for Epping Forest for tabling the new clause, which would implement a limit on borrowing by water companies. I note that Baroness Hayman had multiple discussions with Lord Roborough on the similar amendment that he put forward in the House of Lords, and that Lord Roborough was satisfied with our reasoning for not introducing restrictions on borrowing in the Bill.

Debt has been rising in companies since privatisation, and it of course accelerated under the previous Administration. In some instances, levels of debt have reached a point at which the financial resilience of companies could be threatened. We have been clear that Ofwat must continue to have a strong focus on company financial resilience to secure efficient long-term investment and deliver long-term value for money for customers and the environment.

I assure the Committee that Ofwat is already taking steps to closely monitor debt levels as part of its annual monitoring financial resilience report, and it will take action where the financial resilience of a company is threatened. Ofwat published its final determinations for the 2024 price review in December, which included a confirmed £104 billion upgrade for the water sector. Investment in the water sector is financed up front by investors, and repaid by customers over time to smooth the impact on bills. Borrowing is therefore a key part of the process.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Hudson]

I thank the Minister for the constructive tone with which she has engaged in this whole debate, but I think we are going round in circles. We are trying to hold the water companies to account, and the Government are saying, “It is okay, Ofwat can do that,” but we have heard contributions saying that Ofwat is not using its powers and we need to give it more powers.

All we are doing, with this new clause, is putting in place the principle that the Secretary of State has the capability to oversee that. If the Secretary of State and the Government felt that Ofwat was doing what the legislation intended, they would not need to activate the new clause’s provisions. If, however, they did not feel that Ofwat was doing that, the new clause would give them that particular power. We are again talking about—I know the Government Back Benchers are going to wince—teeth. In this case, regarding Ofwat’s and the Environment Agency’s capabilities, we are saying to the democratically elected Government of the day that there is an extra tooth to hold over Ofwat, and that if Ofwat is not doing its job then the Government can, potentially, step in.

I take on board the comments about the commission but, to echo some of the comments of the hon. Member for Witney about being impatient for change, if this issue is going to the commission, and the can is being kicked down the track, that is disappointing. With this new clause, we are trying, constructively, to give the Government and the Secretary of State of the day the capability to act if they feel that the processes set up under the previous Administration and the new Administration are not working well. I urge the Minister to think again on this matter, and we will press the clause to a vote.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

--- Later in debate ---

Brought up, and read the First time.

[Dr Hudson]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

New clause 6 is a fair and reasonable request to strengthen the Bill. Quite simply, it would do what it says on the tin by requiring the Government to report on the impact that they expect the Bill to have on water pollution and on the actual and verifiable effects that the Bill, when it becomes an Act, will have on our water quality.

It is completely agreed that accountability for addressing the quality of our water system should be at the heart of how we tackle water pollution and related issues. That should be true of every actor involved: not just the water companies, but the Government whose regulation they are expected to abide by. We cannot rightly say on the one hand that water companies should be expected to meet criteria to restore public trust, while suggesting on the other hand that the Government should not likewise work to be accountable and to uphold public trust on the issue.

Furthermore, the new clause feeds into the basic fact that ensuring that our water systems are being improved is not a one-time event that can be magically resolved with a single piece of legislation every now and then. It must be a consistent focus for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and for all the agencies under whose remit the issue falls.

The work of agencies such as the Environment Agency is vital. I pay tribute to its hard work, not least when flooding hits, as we have discussed. We should not underestimate those on the frontline who do so much to keep people safe, to make sure that the environment is protected and to ensure that the quality of people’s water is safe and suitable.

To improve our water systems, however, the buck must stop not with the EA, but higher up: with DEFRA and the Government. The new clause would help to provide that accountability. As in our earlier discussions regarding the online publication of implementation reports, if the measures set out in the Government’s approach do not meet their targets, for legitimate reasons, the Government would have a chance to lay out exactly why not and to give a justification for their findings on the Act’s impact. Our new clause would provide a natural mechanism to ensure that long-term planning and reviews of the Act are taking place and that the Government are looking at water pollution and the actions that the water industry has taken or needs to take to further improve the situation.

We should not shy away from the fact that the new clause would build on the previous Government’s efforts to look at that point. Our plan for water set out a 25-year plan to ensure that our water companies were investing in our water system for the long term, not just while the issue was in the headlines. Again, that is why our new clause matters: because it would ensure the continued focus of Governments of all parties on the protection of our waters. That matters all the time, not just when it becomes a political or media issue.

We must also consider the evolving factors that affect the water industry and its ability to reduce water pollution. The flooding that we have seen in the past weeks has highlighted once again that our country is facing more regular extreme flooding events. In simple terms, more flooding means more excess groundwater and surface water that can enter the network, which creates more of a risk that sewerage overflows will be required to maintain our water systems.

With such events becoming more unpredictable in their timing and yet more commonplace because of extreme weather events and the effects of climate change, looking at the evolution of issues such as this will be crucial to ensuring that any measures to improve overflows and water quality are successful in the long term. We need to make decisions now that have an impact in the future, because in the long term we all want water quality to improve and to be protected for future generations. To achieve that, we need long-term and consistent attention and reflection on the policies being enacted and their effects. The new clause would help to facilitate that.

Once again, transparency is not a hindrance; it helps everybody involved in managing the quality of our water system. Trust can be maintained only if everyone tries to do what is right and the Government, of whichever political party, are no exception. We need to be trying to do the right thing. Given that, His Majesty’s Opposition believe the new clause to be a highly reasonable and fair amendment to the Bill, and we hope that the Minister might support it.

[Emma Hardy]

I will quickly note the constructive and nice way in which the hon. Member for Epping Forest is taking part in these debates. I also want to come up with more dentistry analogies, so I will be thinking of those as we keep going.

The Bill will drive meaningful improvements in the performance and culture of the water industry. In line with that, it will introduce many measures to disincentivise pollution. For example, it will provide Ofwat with legal powers to ban bonuses where companies fail to meet standards on environmental performance, financial resilience, customer outcomes or criminal liability. The Bill will also enable automatic and severe fines, allowing regulators to take swift action. It will enable the public to hold companies to account through a new requirement for water companies to produce annual reports on pollution incident reduction. Collectively, these measures will strengthen enforcement, improve transparency and disincentivise water company pollution.

The Committee and the wider public are able to see a more detailed assessment of the expected impact of the Bill via the published impact assessment. I reassure the Committee that my Department is committed to post-legislative scrutiny of primary legislation. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs will work with the cross-party Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to assess the impacts of the Act three to five years after Royal Assent as part of the standard practice for all new legislation. I welcome that scrutiny.

The Government therefore cannot accept new clause 6. Although we agree on the importance of understanding the impact of the Bill on environmental pollution, adding further reporting requirements to the Bill would be duplicative and unnecessary.

[Dr Hudson]

I thank the Minister for her constructive response, but the Opposition still feel that this is an important new clause in relation to the impact on water pollution, so we would like to proceed again to a formal vote.

[The Chair]

It is votes à gogo this afternoon.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Hudson]

As we have gone through the Bill, there has been a lot of cross-party consensus on trying to get measures in place. I respect the efforts of the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale and the third party in trying to improve the situation, not least in such matters as nature-based solutions. From the official Opposition’s perspective, however, the hon. Member’s new clause 7 is perhaps an overly eager response. Throwing out Ofwat completely at this juncture when we want it to do its regulatory job would create more problems than he wants, whatever the intention of the new clause.

I know that the Liberal Democrats have argued that steps should be taken to set up a new regulator in some way. New clause 7 does not really introduce a specific requirement or measures to enable a transition from Ofwat to the purported new regulator. If we were to proceed with the new clause, we would simply be left in limbo and in the lurch with regard to regulation of the industry. It is not that we believe that the situation is perfect: we have debated the powers of the Environment Agency and Ofwat, and we have agreed that things are not perfect with the water industry and regulators. We have all heard at first hand about issues that we are not happy with, such as executives moving into higher-paid roles within water regulators, of which we heard evidence in the EFRA Committee in the last Parliament.

The hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale generously shouted out the people who work in Ofwat and the Environment Agency, but although he will not push new clause 7 to a vote, he still talks about abolishing Ofwat. In doing that, we would be left with a vacuum while a new regulator was set up—something we can ill afford when we all agree that there is so much work to be done. A new regulator could not be established overnight; it could take months or even years while structures were being established, the personnel needed to do its everyday work were appointed and the like. Let us be honest that making such a move would not come without financial cost.

Even if that money could be raised through Government resources—ultimately, that means taxpayers’ money—we would be using it to establish a completely new infrastructure for the water regulator, rather than trying to enhance and give more power to the regulator we already have. In addition, we have to remember that its role as a regulator affects consumer bills, too. While none of us wants to see water bills rise for any of our constituents, particularly in difficult economic times, bills would have only been higher if a regulator had not been there at all. If we are left with a vacuum until a replacement mechanism is put in place, and if that takes a lot of time, do we really want to run the risk of unregulated companies raising prices even further in the meantime?

We are in agreement that the status quo has not been good enough when it comes to water companies, but progress has been made and continues to be made in that seismic task. Water companies are starting to face the financial penalties for their failures to both people and our precious environment. For example, back in November, Wessex Water was ordered to pay £500,000 for the loss of thousands of fish because of a sewage pumping failure. That very same month, Thames Water was fined over £18 million for its failure to obey rules introduced on the spending of dividends. Those incidents are not good news stories, and we should never say that they are, but they are signs that the mechanism is working. Ofwat is holding the companies to account and trying to act—it is trying to use the teeth that are there.

There are early signs that giving the regulator those teeth—which we have heard a lot about in this Committee —means that there are clear consequences for the water companies that break the rules that have been implemented. That is not the end of the story, but it is the start of the journey, as we try to hold those water companies to account. As I have also mentioned, the pathway for inspections into water company activity is increasing. It is the whole approach—from incident, to investigation, to penalty—that needs to be examined and reviewed in order to drive change, and that is what has been done and what this legislation is trying to take forward.

Although things are not perfect, we need to allow the existing legislation, as well as this new legislation, to take effect so that the regulator can get on and do its job. We should not put things in jeopardy by completely abolishing things. I note that the Liberal Democrats have tabled this new clause, and they are not pushing it to a vote, but I want to put on record the Opposition’s reservations about what they are suggesting.

[Emma Hardy]

I thank the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale once again for his thorough consideration of the Bill. I will turn first to new clause 7, which was tabled in his name and which proposes the abolition of Ofwat. As the hon. Member will be aware, and as he already mentioned in October ’24, the UK and Welsh Governments launched the independent commission to fundamentally transform how our water system works. The commission, led by Sir Jon Cunliffe, will be broad-ranging and will make recommendations in line with eight objectives, which include specific objectives considering the role, structures, responsibilities and powers of the regulator.

It is right that the commission, rather than this Water (Special Measures) Bill, is the vehicle for considering the water regulator’s roles and responsibilities. This Bill focuses on strengthening the powers of the regulators to drive improvements in performance. The Bill will not, and cannot, fix all the sector’s problems. The commission is the right place to consider the long-term future of the regulatory system and the role of the regulator. Indeed, I would argue that the Labour Government want to move away from sticking-plaster politics to fundamentally reset and transform the problems facing our country for good. I hope therefore that the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale is content that this new clause is unnecessary.

New clause 20 was also tabled by the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale. It sets out requirements for a water review that is undertaken by the Secretary of State. I think we are all agreed that we have seen years of water company underperformance, and we all agree that there is a clear need to fundamentally reset the water sector. Although I understand that the hon. Member is seeking to ensure that any review of the water sector is sufficiently thorough, the Government are confident that the commission’s scope is broad and comprehensive. Sir Jon will be supported by a range of experts from the regulatory, environment, health, engineering, customer, investor and economic sectors to effectively examine this sector as a whole, including the regulatory framework.

By setting out considerations for a water review in primary legislation, we risk prejudicing or pre-empting the outcome of the current commission, as well as its independence. The sector is facing complex challenges that require the support of customers, environment groups, investors and companies alike to address. An independent review is best placed to find solutions to those challenges, and it is critical that its independence is preserved. The commission will report its findings in summer 2025, and the Government will consider them in full before outlining the next steps. I therefore hope that the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale understands that to avoid duplication and, importantly, maintain the independence of the commission, the Government will not accept the new clause.