Conversion Practices (Prohibition) Bill

Debate between Miriam Cates and Tonia Antoniazzi

2nd reading
Friday 1st March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Miriam Cates]

The hon. Lady is giving a superb speech. I completely agree that clinicians are already under pressure to use an affirmative approach. Is one of the problems not that many of the professional bodies, including the NHS, have signed up to that approach, and therefore, even with the safeguards provided in the Bill, those therapists would be committing an offence if they took a predetermined course—let us say, to prevent a patient from going down a transgender route?

[Tonia Antoniazzi]

I thank the hon. Member for her question. That is what we need to be able to discuss and look at in further detail, and to thrash out in Committee. We need to ensure that clinicians, particularly those in the NHS—we need them to stay in their field—do not face a chilling effect. The risk of that chilling effect should not be understated: it could make the holistic therapy that is recognised as critical by the Cass review harder to access. Our priority absolutely has to be the legitimate and workable protection of the provision of good, evidenced care for children and young people.

I believe that the Bill should go to Committee. We need sunlight on it to make sure that, if it passes, it has been subjected to detailed consideration of its wording and an understanding of what those words mean for people on the ground, working in our NHS, teaching the children in our schools and working in safeguarding, and for parents, who are a priority.

Abortion (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2021

Debate between Miriam Cates and Tonia Antoniazzi

Monday 26th April 2021 General Committees

[Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Miriam Cates]

No, I am going to make some progress.

However, the Government overreach in this legislation goes beyond abortion regulations. Paragraphs 85 and 86 of the CEDAW report, which were put into statute by section 9 of the 2019 Act, cover matters extending to health, education and the role of women. One provision in paragraph 86 calls on the Government to:

“Adopt a strategy to combat gender-based stereotypes regarding women’s primary role as mothers”.

As a woman and a mother, I find that statement rather patronising. Is it the Government’s job to tell me how I should value my identity as a mother? Rather than celebrating and promoting the vital role of women in nurturing the next generation, this statement speaks of motherhood in negative terms, and reinforces a different stereotype—one that views motherhood as second best.

I have a degree from Cambridge University, I am a fully qualified science teacher, and I became the first Conservative MP to be elected in Sheffield in nearly 30 years, but my greatest achievement, which I value far beyond those others, is being mother to my three children. There are hundreds of Conservative MPs and tens of thousands of science teachers, but my children have only one mum and no one can replace me. Their lives, their wellbeing and their future depend in large part on how well I do my job as a mother.

[Tonia Antoniazzi]

As the hon. Lady correctly stated, this is a very emotive subject. I was a member of the Women and Equalities Committee when the right hon. Member for Basingstoke was its Chair and we went to Northern Ireland. I have a Roman Catholic background, and I appreciate everything that the hon. Lady says, but I listened and spoke to those women who gave evidence. They had to go through the most horrific experiences. I know that she, as an educationalist, as I am myself, would have great empathy and sympathy for those women. The situation cannot remain as it is.

[Miriam Cates]

I have deep empathy for women in that situation—not only in Northern Ireland but across the world, under all different circumstances. As I said, I will come on to that point.

The fact that the legislation is not only limited to abortion regulations, but reaches far beyond that, concerns me. Motherhood is valuable, honourable and a deep responsibility—it is a privilege. If that is a gender stereotype that is being put forward in legislation as negative, I reject that, and I imagine that many mothers in Northern Ireland would also do so. Even if the Secretary of State chooses never to use these directive powers, I do not see how anyone can vote for them without sending the impression that the importance of motherhood is questionable or second best.

The regulations tear up the principles of devolution and disregard the democratic will of the people of Northern Ireland. They could enforce a potentially unsafe abortion regime and represent an overreach of the state into the role of motherhood.