Northern Ireland (Executive Formation and Exercise of Functions) Bill

Debate between Mike Penning and David Simpson

2nd reading: House of Commons
Wednesday 24th October 2018 Commons Chamber

[Sir Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) (Con)]

As one of two former Northern Ireland Ministers on the Government Benches, let me say that I know how difficult the ministerial team has found it to get to this position with the Bill. The Bill is far from perfect, and it is very easy for us on the Government Back Benches—and for those on other Benches, and for the shadow Secretary of State and the shadow Minister—to tell everybody what should have happened. It would be very easy to criticise—and there was a bit of criticism from the shadow Secretary of State—but the Secretary of State is dancing on the head of a pin, because without a devolved Administration in Northern Ireland, the whole area around the Northern Ireland agreement is in a difficult position.

Nobody in this House—nobody who really understands the Northern Ireland political position—would dream of having a situation in which civil servants were empowered by the Bill to progress things in a way that people in any other part of the United Kingdom would find completely undemocratic, and that would never be passed by this House. To perhaps not dance on the head of a pin, this is as close as we will get to direct rule without direct rule.

Some of the political persuasions in Northern Ireland want that to happen. They want crisis. For their own political beliefs, mostly around a united Ireland, they want to make the whole thing collapse. We are very close to that. We cannot have a situation in which the Province is brought to its knees because one group of people want one thing and another group cannot accept that.

[David Simpson]

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is time that we had a degree of honesty from Sinn Féin—if that is possible—about whether they really want an Assembly back, and if they do, is it only on their terms?

[Sir Mike Penning]

That intervention is spot on, in many ways. It cannot be on one group’s terms. The Good Friday agreement is specific that it must involve the groups coming together.

In the time I was a Northern Ireland Minister, I met people from all parts of the Province, from all political persuasions and faiths, many of them together in the boxing rings and around rugby. Not once was the Irish language raised with me during my time in the Province. It may have been raised with the Secretary of State, but it certainly was not raised with me. Myriad things were raised, including the difficult situation of the historical investigations, the health service, bridges, roads and lack of infrastructure—all being blocked because one group in the Assembly had a veto. I like to use the word “veto” because I think the public understand it better. To me, that is fundamentally wrong.

We have to ask today whether Sinn Féin want to be part of the process. If not, they should come out and say so. If they do not want the Assembly, Administration and Ministers in place, they should say so. If they do want the Assembly to sit—although it is difficult to see how it could, considering the previous comments by Sinn Féin’s political leaders—they should get into the room, sit down at the table and thrash it out like their predecessors did.

I dealt with the late Martin McGuinness. I never thought that I would get on with him. We were miles apart politically, but he was actually quite pragmatic. He wanted better things for his community—like some of the parties in the House who do not want to be part of the United Kingdom, but come here, thrash things out and are part of it. That is why I have always found the fact that Sinn Féin does not come here, take part and argue its case fundamentally wrong and undemocratic to its constituents.

Psychoactive Substances Bill [Lords]

Debate between Mike Penning and David Simpson

Monday 19th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mike Penning]

That important matter was put to me when I gave evidence to the Home Affairs Committee. The difference between what we are doing here and what we are doing with other illegal substances is that this is a blanket ban. If we try to indicate the level of harm on every single one of these substances we will be here forever, which is why we have gone for the blanket ban, and why the Republic of Ireland did the same. As I said to my hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire (Kit Malthouse), we will continue to look at this matter, but the guidance to the Sentencing Council is very strong. I am so pleased that the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann) said that he had been calling for this ban for some time, because I shared an office with my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate for five years and I know exactly what his views are. I can genuinely say that apart from a few nuances here and there, most people want to see this Bill on the Statute Book.

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

Will the Minister outline for us just how this legislation will deal with those who sell or buy online?

[Mike Penning]

It will be just the same as if a person went to a head shop. It is illegal. The National Crime Agency, which is now operating in Northern Ireland—I visited it recently to see the work it is doing—will be working with other agencies to ensure that we prosecute those involved in the crime. People say to me that the web is so open, but at the end of the day, purchasing, like selling, is an offence. If a person purchases these products, we will try to ensure that they are convicted. It does not matter whether they purchase them from a head shop, a friend or online, it is an offence. We are talking about purchase, not possession.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Mike Penning and David Simpson

Wednesday 5th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mike Penning]

The Secretary of State and I are very aware of that, and we have regular ongoing discussions about it. This is, of course, a criminality issue for the police to address, but where the profits go is also an issue, and we all know that some of the profits go into terrorist organisations. We must do everything we possibly can to clamp down on this, to stop that money getting into those organisations.

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

Further to the question from the Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, the hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson), the Minister will know that a decision with regard to HMRC has been delayed yet again. The Committee understands that there is a marker out there that can do the job, resolve the issue and save the general taxpayer millions of pounds. Someone somewhere is dragging their heels. We need the Minister to intervene and get this resolved quickly.

[Mike Penning]

I will again intervene on this matter and speak with my colleagues in HMRC. At the last meeting I had, which the Minister of Justice in Northern Ireland also attended, we understood that the marker was imminent. What those involved are worried about is introducing a marker that is not sufficiently robust. There are also dangers with regard not only to money getting into the wrong hands, but to the chemicals going into the environment after the markers are removed in the laundering process. That is very dangerous to both individuals and the environment in Northern Ireland.

Londonderry and the City of London

Debate between Mike Penning and David Simpson

Wednesday 27th February 2013 Westminster Hall

[Mike Penning]

I completely agree, and I will come on to the city of culture in a few moments.

The Northern Ireland Office and the Treasury have been keen to ensure that we invest. The Secretary of State has taken a particular interest in the city’s broadband technology, and funding has come from central Government here in Westminster to help facilitate that. While I praise what is going on in the devolved Assembly, therefore, we are also trying to do our bit, and we are encouraging people to go forward.

Another important event taking place in Northern Ireland in the near future is the police and fire games. For those who do not know just how important those games are—as an ex-fireman, I would say this, wouldn’t I?—I should point out that they are the second-largest athletic event in the world, behind the Olympics. They are taking place in Belfast later this year, and they are a huge event. In that context, I remember, as a young man, standing in admiration of Mary Peters as an athlete; I now stand in admiration of her for driving and doing things in the community. Very early in my time in Northern Ireland, I was standing on the tarmac at Belfast city airport waiting for His Royal Highness the Duke of York to come in. I had about 15 minutes with Mary Peters, who is the most inspiring person; it is no wonder she became such an athlete when she has so much drive and personality.

[David Simpson]

The Minister talks about how far Northern Ireland and the city of Londonderry have come, and I mentioned the days of King James earlier. The Wolfe Tones have now invited my hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) to one of their events, although, unfortunately, he is very busy. However, that shows how things have moved on. Will the Minister congratulate the cultural organisation the Apprentice Boys of Derry on their contribution in terms of the history of Londonderry and, of course, the famous walls of Derry?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Mike Penning and David Simpson

Wednesday 5th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

4. What practical support she can give to the families from Northern Ireland of those (a) serving in and (b) who have returned from Afghanistan.

[The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mike Penning)]

I pay tribute to our brave armed forces who have served with such distinction in Afghanistan and other parts of the world. The MOD Service Personnel and Veterans Agency and many other service charities provide support and services to our 900,000-strong armed forces community and to their families.

[David Simpson]

I thank the Minister for his comments. Will he agree to meet a group of families in my constituency who have loved ones serving in Afghanistan, so that they can raise some of the practical issues themselves?

[Mike Penning]

It will be a pleasure and an honour to meet the families in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency. We are working very closely with the brigadier and his staff at 38 (Irish) Brigade to ensure that concerns are addressed.