Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Lord Gove Excerpts

Friday 21st November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gove (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Goddard of Stockport (LD)]

I have moved my seat. I wish to speak briefly as a member of the Select Committee who has not spoken.

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[Lord Goddard of Stockport (LD)]

I accept the noble Baroness’s position. Perhaps a High Court judge might resolve the issue, then.

[Lord Gove (Con)]

My Lords, I support Amendment 52, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson. I do so as the Government Chief Whip who helped ensure that the Serious Crime Act 2015 was placed on the statute book, and as the Justice Secretary who was responsible for some of its provisions thereafter.

I am hugely grateful to the noble Baroness for raising the vital question of domestic abuse and violence in the context of coercion. I do not believe that this has been suitably explored, canvassed or analysed before. I would be grateful for the reflections of the Bill’s sponsor on how we might protect some of the most vulnerable in our society.

I will respond very briefly to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, who pointed out that there may well be inadequate protections for those people who are coerced or persuaded into declining treatment that might prolong their life at the end of their life. There may well be inadequate protection and a case for stronger protection but, as has been pointed out before, there is a world of difference between declining treatment that might preserve your life and having a lethal injection that will end your life. It is a point that the medical profession fully understands and one that should be firmly borne in mind.

[Lord Pannick (CB)]

This is at the heart of the Bill. Is there really such a profound difference between an individual being able to say, “I’m going to stop chemotherapy” or “I’m going to stop eating because my life is intolerable”, and that person saying to the doctor, “I wish to have a potion that will have the same result”? There is a difference, but the main difference is that the person can die with dignity.

[Lord Gove (Con)]

I think there is a profound difference, but the noble Lord has made his point and I shall allow others to judge whether the narrowness of the distinction that he draws is appropriate.

On the whole question of domestic violence, the legislation that was introduced in 2015 specifically introduced the idea of coercive and controlling behaviour as an aspect of domestic violence: the idea that domestic violence need not require physical harm. It was an advance in the law that was brought forward by my friend Robert Buckland in that legislation. It was absolutely vital and it made us a world-leading jurisdiction in recognising the danger of this particular type of abuse and violence.

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[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB)]

The point that the noble Lord has just made—that people are committing suicide because they are in abusive relationships—is absolutely dreadful. But would he accept that there is more likelihood of their death being prevented under this Bill?

[Lord Gove (Con)]

I profoundly disagree with the noble Baroness on that, but I am grateful to her for making that point, and I am more grateful still to the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, for raising this issue. It is precisely the nature of coercive and controlling behaviour within domestic settings, as part of domestic violence and abuse, that needs to be addressed in this legislation. I have an open mind as to how it might be, but it must be.

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

My Lords, I support the amendments in this group. They are important because, unlike the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, I do not know what the outcome of this debate will be at the end. She might have some other knowledge of how this House will vote, but I certainly do not know the answer. Therefore, it is vital that we spend the time and debate these amendments, because words are important. If anyone ought to know the value of individual words, it is noble and learned Lords in this House, because many of them spend their lives arguing on the edge of a pin about particular words. As a matter of fact, they make a considerable amount of money out of arguing about single words. Words are important, so let us not try to pretend that words do not matter. Therefore, on “coercion”, “influenced” and “encouraged”, I believe that we need to get this right, because the Bill could pass this House.

I know that there are those who do want to shut down debate. I sat in the House of Commons on Wednesday at Prime Minister’s Questions. I noticed earlier today that for a considerable amount of this debate the person who raised it at Prime Minister’s Questions was sitting here. He is the right honourable Member for North West Hampshire. He has left his position on the Steps of the Throne, but he was here for a considerable amount of the debate. He was indignant and incensed that this House wants to look at and scrutinise this Bill because it was passed by the Commons. I was in the other House for 25 years, and I know that in those 25 years, under successive Governments, the other House got Bills wrong and had to change those Bills. I do not believe it is correct to suggest that just because the other Members have passed the Bill, somehow we must bow and surrender to their superior knowledge, and therefore I believe that we ought to spend time—