Select Committee on Governance of the House

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Wednesday 10th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Jesse Norman]

I am very pressed for time. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will not mind if I allow him to intervene later, perhaps at the end of my speech. We are under tremendous time pressure.

Secondly, Ms Mills was and, indeed, is herself subject to an inquiry by the Australian Parliament. Thirdly, the Speaker’s panel of selection was purely advisory, and was smaller than, and assembled on a different basis from, that used in 2011. Fourthly, the terms of the process of recruitment changed from the original terms set out by the House of Commons Commission on 30 April 2014. Fifthly, while acknowledging the Clerk’s executive functions, the advertisement for the post in The Sunday Times led with, and specifically emphasised, “constitutional matters” and the Clerk’s role as

“chief adviser to the Speaker, the Leader of the House and other members of the Front Bench on matters of procedure and privilege”.

Sixthly, outside headhunters, Saxton Bampfylde, were used for the first time. Seventhly, despite all that, the final candidate—Ms Mills—was, in effect, recruited for a job that did not then exist as such, that of chief executive of this House. Finally, the letter nominating Ms Mills was signed by the Speaker on the advice of the panel, was sent to 10 Downing street during the recess, and, but for the intervention of Parliament, might have been forwarded to Buckingham Palace during the recess.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

I am delighted that my hon. Friend has put this motion before the House today. Is he aware that I understand from an answer to me that the panel was completely unaware that Carol Mills was undergoing investigation—two investigations, actually—by the Australian Senate before it made its decision? Moreover, Saxton Bampfylde wished to inform the panel that that was the case, and the panel was advised not to take evidence from it.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. There are lots of speakers on the list, including the hon. Member for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant), who I want to get in early on, so we must have very short interventions.

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

I once shocked my right hon. Friend the Member for Witney (Mr Cameron) by telling him that I was a moderniser when Notting Hill was still a dump. So I very much welcome the motion, because I recognise that we need to have change to manage the Houses of Parliament through a difficult time, in terms of both our constitution and the structure of this building.

Now is not the time to go over the past, but I want to say, first, that I commend the people who sat on the panel. As the hon. Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) said, they gave 20 hours of their time to do the job as best as they could. Where I disagree with her is in my belief that it was not done in the way she implied: as a modern business would have done it. The job description would not have been changed from what had been decided by a board earlier on. We heard from my right hon. Friend the Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr Lansley) that the description for the Clerk that the panel was recruiting was changed from the decision made by the House of Commons Commission.

I share the House’s concern for Carol Mills, because she went into this application in good faith and it is wrong if her career will be damaged by what is happening at the moment. However, the fact is that consultants were employed, rightly or wrongly, and then, for all sorts of reasons, the panel decided not to listen to them at a specified time. As I said in an intervention on my hon. Friend the Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman), that meant that the panel did not know that an inquiry was being undertaken into her behaviour in Australia by the Australian Senate. That would have been relevant. [Interruption.] I do not know why Opposition Members are chuntering, to use the words of Mr Speaker, because that information was in a parliamentary answer from the House of Commons Commission. So I am afraid that Members will have to take that matter up with the commission.

There are questions to be answered. One thing that I hate in this place at times is the way in which we all like to sweep things under the carpet. In due course—not tonight—questions will be asked about why Sir Robert Rogers retired early and about his relationship with Mr Speaker.

Now I wish to move on. I agree with what the right hon. and learned Member for North East Fife (Sir Menzies Campbell) said. In my experience as a joint managing director in business, a joint managing director rarely works. There needs to be a clear line of command. We have heard already that there is a constitutional role that goes back to 1363 with the Clerk. The activities need to be split, but I firmly agree with the right hon. and learned Gentleman and Sir Kevin Tebbit that there should be a chief operating officer reporting to the chief executive, otherwise, as sure as pears are pears, we will be coming back here again for other conflicts; it is inevitable. If we have not been professional in our selection of a replacement Clerk up to now, let us at least be so now and in the future, under the guidance of the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) .

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

My old friend—and he is my old friend—the hon. Member for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant) said that he would not dwell on the past, and then proceeded to spend three quarters of his speech doing precisely that. He could usefully have done at the start of his speech what I am going to do at the start of mine, which is to declare not a financial interest but a personal interest. I suspect that if he had done so, it would have been a slightly different one from mine. My personal interest is that Mr Speaker is an old friend of mine. Not surprisingly, that means that I like him quite a lot most of the time. I believe that, as has been said by others in this debate, he has exceeded all expectations in strengthening the power of Back Benchers to hold Ministers to account in this House.

[Michael Fabricant]

indicated assent.

[Dr Lewis]

I am delighted to put it on the record that my hon. Friend agrees with that.

As a result of all that, I try to help Mr Speaker extricate himself from time to time from the holes that he occasionally digs for himself as a result of his passion for modernisation. For that reason, I ask the House to discount my bias. It is also for that reason that I welcomed the proposals in the motion and happily agreed to sign it at the request of various hon. Friends who have spoken.

As I said in a point of order a few days ago, had anybody asked me about the matter even six weeks ago, or certainly six months ago before this dispute came up, I would have thought that the definition of the Clerk was all the definitions we have heard in the debate except one: chief executive officer. In our minds, the Clerk is rightly associated with being the top procedural officer. That is what I have always regarded him as. Had anyone asked me before the dispute began to describe the functions of the Clerk, I would not have had the faintest idea that he was in a position to overrule everybody else on management matters. That is an anachronistic position.

Therefore, when the Committee is set up, I suggest it asks itself these four questions. First, should a top CEO be expected to be a top procedural adviser too? Secondly, should a top procedural adviser be expected to be a top CEO too? Thirdly, should two such different roles be combined by default in future as they have been in the past? Fourthly, should the top procedural adviser be allowed, if the roles are separated, to overrule the top CEO on management matters, or vice versa on procedural matters? My answers to those questions are clear: no, no, no, no.

The reason for my answers is not only that I have wanted for years to emulate the late, great Margaret Thatcher on the Floor of the House, but that I profoundly disagree, with the greatest respect, with the right hon. and learned Member for North East Fife (Sir Menzies Campbell). It is not a question of having a single chain of command, because we are not talking about a single management function. We are talking about two separate functions, which means that the people at the top of them should have authority in each.