Tackling Fraud and Preventing Government Waste

Debate between Michael Ellis and Andy McDonald

Tuesday 1st February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michael Ellis]

I will just make some progress.

I am sorry that Lord Agnew chose to resign from his position as a Minister in the Treasury and in the Cabinet Office, and I want to take this opportunity to thank him very much for the important work he did while he was in government. The Government have been working to achieve better quality government for citizens, with relentless focus on outcomes, ensuring every £1 of taxpayers’ money is spent well; ensuring policy making reflects the communities we serve through, for example, the movement of civil service jobs away from London to Darlington, Stoke, Preston and elsewhere; driving the post-Brexit procurement rules reform to make procurement more transparent, provide better services to citizens and deliver social value; and procuring ventilators at the beginning of the pandemic. We have focused on value for money and supporting the taxpayer.

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

The Minister is talking about good stewardship of public money, but was he as concerned as I was to read in the press that, under the Tory Tees Valley Mayor, the public share of the joint venture to develop and secure major industrial opportunities, which has had tens of millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money invested in it, has been transferred to JC Musgrave Capital and Northern Land Management? Does that not raise major questions about how public moneys have been spent? Does he agree that, given wider concerns about governance and the vested interests of political donors, what is needed is an independent inquiry into the governance of the Tees Valley Combined Authority and the South Tees Development Corporation?

[Michael Ellis]

What I do know is that Ben Houchen is an excellent Mayor and Labour wishes that it had mayors like him.

Fraud is unacceptable wherever and however it is perpetrated. The Government remain determined to stamp it out. I can say that as a Minister and a former Attorney General, and as someone who prosecuted such cases in an earlier life—

Downing Street Parties: Police Investigation

Debate between Michael Ellis and Andy McDonald

Tuesday 25th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

My Middlesbrough constituents have obeyed the rules, done exactly what the Prime Minister demanded of them and abided by the laws that he initiated. Does the Paymaster General not understand that the continued refusal to do the right and decent thing only serves to damage our democracy and tarnish our reputation across the world? That will not be turned around until such time as the Prime Minister goes and brings this shameful business to an end.

[Michael Ellis]

No, I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman’s characterisation.

Downing Street Garden Event

Debate between Michael Ellis and Andy McDonald

Tuesday 11th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michael Ellis]

I think the hon. Lady is fair—I am sure she is fair—and I think she does clearly know that no disrespect is intended, but what she does not recognise is that what is also fair is the proper administration of justice, and one of the fundamental tenets of fairness, a pillar, is to allow investigations to continue. She wishes to prejudge; she wishes to cast stones before she knows what has exactly happened. The fair thing to do would be to await the result of any investigation that has been commissioned.

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

If ever there was a time to be candid with this House, it is now. I am asking the Paymaster General a question, not anybody else. He did not answer my hon. Friend the Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle), so I will give him another go. Has the Paymaster General been told whether the Prime Minister attended the Downing Street party on 20 May or not? If so, what was the answer?

[Michael Ellis]

I am not going to discuss in this House what private conversations take place between Government Ministers.

[Andy McDonald]

You have a duty to this House.

[Michael Ellis]

I know my duty to this House, and the reality of the matter is that the hon. Gentleman wishes to prejudge the matter. He is wrong to do so. It is not a matter for me—I am not conducting the inquiry—but a matter for Sue Gray. Sue Gray and her team will be investigating the matter and will come to the due conclusion. He should wait patiently for that. I think the predecessor question was about when that answer will come. I do not know the answer to that, but we have asked that it be done swiftly, and as soon as that is possible, it will be given.

Downing Street Christmas Parties Investigation

Debate between Michael Ellis and Andy McDonald

Thursday 9th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Michael Ellis]

I do not understand the nature of the hon. Lady’s question—[Interruption.] She does not know the Prime Minister. I do know the Prime Minister and have done for many years. He is a friend of mine and I know him to be a man of honour and integrity who is working hard in the interests of the people of this country, and she should reflect on the public service that all in the Government and the Opposition do to the best of their abilities.

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

From Collette in Middlesbrough:

“During lockdown, my 74-year-old mam was really lonely and depressed, but obeyed all the rules, as we all did. She sadly passed away in January 2021 alone in her flat. We were only allowed 30 people at the funeral so lots of mam’s friends and family were unable to attend. Nor were we able to have a wake to celebrate her life afterwards and comfort us. The government robbed us of that. So how dare they break the rules and hold a Christmas party. I’m crying as I’m typing this email, been crying since I watched the news yesterday. People must be held accountable and police action taken. We cannot let them get away with it.”

So instead of Allegra Stratton carrying the can, will the Prime Minister for once in his privileged, narcissistic, cheating existence do the right thing and resign?

[Michael Ellis]

My condolences to the hon. Gentleman’s constituent. The Prime Minister has said, as I have said from this Dispatch Box, that disciplinary action will be taken if appropriate. I hope that the hon. Gentleman’s constituent can be reassured by that. As to the course of action the police choose to take, if any, that is a matter entirely independent of Her Majesty’s Government; it will be up to the police as they are operationally independent. We have said that the Cabinet Secretary will involve the police if, during the course of his investigation, he uncovers any criminality.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Michael Ellis and Andy McDonald

Thursday 18th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

The best way of decarbonising road transport is to ensure that more people use public transport. It was therefore alarming to hear the Secretary of State tell the Select Committee on Transport yesterday that he thought that automated vehicles were the answer and that any modal shift should be incremental. Incremental? There is a climate emergency now and an incremental response will not cut it. Does not this show that the Secretary of State is not taking the climate crisis seriously?

[Michael Ellis]

That is quite wrong. The fact is that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has been in charge of a record investment in rail. That form of public transport has seen huge sums of investment. In fact, we have invested across the board. The hon. Gentleman talks about the climate. This Government are doing more on that issue than countries around the world, and certainly far more than Labour ever did when it was in power. We are taking a multifaceted approach, and automated vehicles, public transport, electric vehicles and rail are also important in this regard. Rail investment from this Government beats them all.

[Andy McDonald]

I was delighted to hear that Andy Burnham has secured the recommendation of Transport for Greater Manchester to franchise bus services. Contrary to the nonsense spouted from the Government Benches, this has been done at the earliest possible moment following the passing of the necessary secondary legislation, and Liverpool will be next. Modal shift from car to bus will make an enormous contribution to reducing carbon emissions. Why, then, does the Secretary of State—perhaps as a parting gift—not do what a Labour Government will do and give every local authority the power to re-regulate their buses?

[Michael Ellis]

Every local authority already has the power. Andy Burnham and Labour in his area had that power for three years, and they did nowt about it. It was this Secretary of State who pushed through the Bus Services Act 2017.