Paid Directorships and Consultancies (MPs)

Michael Dugher Excerpts

Wednesday 17th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Jon Trickett]

Yes, and it is said that when he arrived, it was such a special occasion that the station master put on his top hat and tails and rolled out a red carpet for the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

[Michael Dugher (Barnsley East) (Lab)]

You get that every week.

[Jon Trickett]

Yes, I get the red carpet regularly, but only on the way back out.

I will quote two Prime Ministers, neither of whom are from my party. I am not in the habit of quoting Prime Ministers from other parties, but these quotations are quite relevant. More than a century ago, Gladstone said that “an MP who does his duty to his constituents has very little time for anything else”. Of course, MPs were all men in those days. In 2009, the right hon. Member for Witney (Mr Cameron) said that it was

“necessary to demonstrate 100 per cent focus on Parliament, politics”.

We can all agree that being an MP is a profession that requires an enormous commitment of time and energy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Dugher (Barnsley East) (Lab)]

As my hon. Friend the Member for Hemsworth (Jon Trickett) set out when opening the debate, Labour will make a commitment in its manifesto at the next general election to regulate second jobs. That is why we have led the debate today.

Our motion on the Order Paper states:

“as part of a wider regulatory framework for second jobs, from the start of the next Parliament, no hon. Members should be permitted to hold paid directorships or consultancies.”

There have been some interesting critiques of the draftsmanship of the motion, yet no amendment was tabled. Government Members have said that the motion is either too narrow or too wide. They could have tabled an amendment. We repeat the call we made today that if Government Members are serious about addressing this issue and about improving the motion, we could begin talks this afternoon. Of course, they are not interested in improving the motion—that is a complete red herring.

Decades ago, when this place resembled more a gentlemen’s club than a people’s Parliament, being an MP was seen as a second job. However, it is impossible to deny that things have moved on and that, rightly, the public’s expectations have changed. Of course it is good for Members to keep connected to the world beyond Westminster and to have outside interests, a point made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr Raynsford) and the hon. Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland). It is important that we remain connected with the outside world, but I have to say this, particularly to Government Members: being in touch does not depend on a Member’s ability to earn unlimited and large amounts of money from the private sector. That is a very interesting definition of being in touch. It is perfectly possible to have “outside interests”, in the true sense of the words, without having unlimited outside financial interests.

A legitimate question was asked about MPs not being able to retain their skills—in medicine, law or engineering, for example—and whether that would leave the House worse off. We have been clear that MPs would still be able to do a certain amount of work. They would be able to keep up their expertise by, for example, working as a GP like the hon. Member for Bracknell (Dr Lee), or as lawyers or engineers. They could still do that, but a limit would be placed on how much they could earn. As hon. Members have pointed out, such limits have been applied successfully in many countries. Clearly, the current rules are not fit for purpose in the 21st century. This is about changing politics to make it more open, transparent and trusted. My right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) said last week:

“The vast majority of all MPs have performed their duties properly within the rules. And raising this issue casts no doubt upon that. But we should question the rules. The question of MPs second outside jobs has been discussed but not properly addressed for a generation. The British people expect their MPs to be representing them and the country not anyone else.”

This has been an important debate. My hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Chris Williamson) hit the nail on the head when he talked about public perception and our absolute duty to repair public trust in the politic process, and rightly referred to the much stronger restrictions on MPs’ outside earnings elsewhere in the world. We can look at those systems. My hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon (Mr Anderson) gave the House a reality check, pointing out that MPs were paid three times the average wage. He talked about the miners he met at the weekend at Maltby pit and spoke with passion and principle about people out there for whom life was very tough and who might be watching this debate, wondering, “What planet are some of those people on?”

My hon. Friend the Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) reinforced that point by talking about the bubble we sometimes live in here. He said that the public would be rightly baffled by some of today’s contributions. My hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass) made an interesting proposal: since the Government are keen on capping benefits, why not a cap on outside earnings for MPs? That is worth considering. My hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas) also made a powerful case for reform.

I listened to right hon. and hon. Members on the Government Benches defending the status quo. The Leader of the House was his usual complacent self, taking a “nothing to see here, move along” approach in his opening remarks. Interestingly, the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming) talked about simply popping off to London Bridge for a few hours to do a bit of work and bemoaned the creation of a political class, which was exactly the same argument raised in 1911 when it was decided to pay MPs in the first place.

The prospect of the current arrangements continuing into the future, allowing right hon. and hon. Members to earn hundreds of thousands of pounds from outside interests—[Interruption.] The Minister of State, Home Department, the hon. Member for Taunton Deane (Mr Browne), who probably has one eye on the reshuffle and that Cabinet post that never seems to come, will understand that the former Prime Minister does not receive a single penny in outside earnings. I am happy to help him on that important fact. Outside interests contribute not to the richness of debate in the House, but to the richness of individual Members; and they add value not to our deliberations, but to Members’ bank accounts. That is why things must change.

I have looked at the scale of the problem. Apparently, 18 Governments Members have 53 extra jobs between them. I sympathise with the Whips; I do not know how they manage to get these people in for a Division. Five Members have 19 jobs between them, while an estimated 85 Conservative Members—almost one in three—have second jobs and directorships.

To conclude, there will be a clear choice at the next general election between the Labour party, which wants big reforms, our politics opened up, and big money taken out of politics—including new rules and new limits on second jobs—and those in the Government, who say they want more of the same, the status quo, no change and business as usual. We can either look forward, as the Labour party will do, to a new Parliament and a new settlement where public, not private, interest comes first, or look to the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats, for whom second jobs have because second nature and where the public invariably come second too.

In 20 years’ time we will no doubt look back and wonder why it took so long to introduce the changes we desperately need for new limits on MPs’ second jobs. History will record which party was on the side of change and of the public.