Anti-Semitism

Debate between Matthew Offord and Guto Bebb

Tuesday 9th December 2014 Westminster Hall

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann), whom I congratulate on securing this unfortunately necessary debate. The work done by him and the all-party group is a statement of what this House can achieve when we work on a cross-party basis. I was privileged to be part of a small delegation on this issue that visited the Netherlands recently.

I will touch on a few issues that I think should be mentioned in a debate of this nature. We should certainly highlight the concerns relating to the upsurge in anti-Semitic incidents reported by the Community Security Trust. The hon. Member for Bassetlaw was right to identify the attacks on figures in public life, and we should discuss that as well. It is also important for us in public life to be careful about equating the Jewish people with the Israeli state. We must highlight the potential for that equation—often made in a lazy manner by people protesting things in the middle east that they disagree with—to give rise to anti-Semitic comments. That is not necessarily what is intended by those individuals, who are not thinking carefully about what they are doing, but I argue that equating Jewish people with the Israeli state in that manner does not contribute to a healthy public debate.

We must also mention some of the people who campaign for boycotting and divestment from Israel. Again, some of that rhetoric can result in the expression of anti-Jewish sentiments in our political discourse in this country. Finally, I would like to mention the situation in Europe, which I argue is shameful to all of us who believed that the continent and the United Kingdom had learned the lessons from the terrible recent history of anti-Semitism on the continent.

It is shocking that before the situation in Gaza arose this summer, figures from the Community Security Trust showed a 36% increase in anti-Semitic attacks in this country. Obviously those figures were dwarfed by what happened in July as a result of the terrible events in Gaza. What comes out clearly from those figures is that the Jewish population in the United Kingdom are being equated, in the minds of many people who feel strongly about that issue, with the state of Israel. It is important to challenge the language used in that context. If such language gives rise to attacks on Jewish cemeteries and individuals in various parts of this country, there is something wrong with the rhetoric being used.

We have a responsibility in that discourse. It is an area of huge emotion, and we have a responsibility for ensuring that we are careful in our use of words. I am afraid that the experience of the past few weeks in this place indicates that even hon. Members of this House are not taking the issue seriously. I will not relate these to the individual Members concerned, as I have not had time to forewarn their offices, but I have a few examples of comments made in the House that highlight my concerns. In the recent debate on the Israel-Palestine situation, one hon. Member said:

“My hon. Friend is absolutely right. You cannot appeal to the Israelis’ better nature, because they do not have one. You can, however, threaten them financially.”—[Official Report, 1 December 2014; Vol. 589, c. 15WH.]

That is a disgraceful slur. It is the age-old slur of the Jews being keen on money, used in the context of an attack on the Israeli state. That type of language equates the old hatreds that exist, unfortunately, in many parts of Europe with an attack on the Israeli state, and any hon. Member making such a comment should ask themselves whether they are contributing to the increasing number of attacks that we are seeing in our society. When we speak, we have a responsibility to be very careful about what we say.

In the same way, last week one former Minister said on the BBC that there was a “powerful financial lobby” supporting the state of Israel. What is quite shocking about that comment is, first, that it came from a former Minister and, secondly, and even worse, it was not even challenged by the BBC. A “powerful financial lobby”—the implication was that everybody would understand who that lobby was; in other words, it was accepted as part of our discourse about the issue of Israel.

When we see the figures from the CST highlighting the increase in the number of attacks as a result of what happened this summer in Gaza, we have an obligation to make sure that the language we use does not pander to prejudice. Unfortunately, our track record across all parts of the House—the two examples I have given are from different parts of the House, unfortunately—clearly shows that we need to be much more careful in the way we use language.

Similarly, the hon. Member for Bassetlaw has highlighted the attacks on people in public life, not least—obviously—the disgraceful attacks on the hon. Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger). He has done the right thing in highlighting those issues, and we have a responsibility to challenge the social media companies for their lack of action. I have grown a very thick skin since becoming an MP, but even I was quite shocked this summer to be accused on social media of being a “Jew lover”. My wife, as far as I know, is a Welsh Protestant, and I have not been unfaithful; therefore, I would hope that that attack is not literally correct.

[Dr Offord]

Equally, is my hon. Friend aware of the vitriolic abuse that the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann) received when he came to the defence of the hon. Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger), and the criminal behaviour of individuals that Twitter failed to take any real action against?

[Guto Bebb]

Indeed, I am aware of those attacks, but I am sure that the hon. Member for Bassetlaw can look after himself. However, it is clearly an unacceptable situation. My office reported some of the attacks that were made on me, and the interesting thing is that it took three months for the social media companies even to respond. We complained in August; we received a response from them last week. Indeed, by that point I had forgotten why I had made a complaint in the first instance.

The situation is simply unacceptable. One could argue that being attacked on social media is, unfortunately, part and parcel of being in public life—although no Member of Parliament should accept anything approaching what has been thrown at some hon. Members of this House. However, for an ordinary member of the public to be attacked in such a manner, on racist grounds, is simply unacceptable, and those companies, which have the capacity to deal with the issue, should be challenged by this House to ensure that they do so. This is not about freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is about having the right to argue a case; what we are seeing is not the argument of a case, but simply old prejudices masquerading as political comment, and it is simply unacceptable.

I have already touched on the issue of equating the Jewish community with the Israeli state. The European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia has said that such an equation is a form of anti-Semitism, and I am afraid it is becoming increasingly evident in the debate that we have about the situation in the middle east. It is crucial, therefore, to ensure that when we are dealing with this issue, we highlight the fact that there is a difference. I have been to Israel on numerous occasions, and if I could say that even once on any of my visits to Israel I came away with the view that everybody in Israel thought the same way about each and every issue, I would be lying, because I have never seen such a vibrant democracy, where people disagree about anything and everything. Indeed, it could be argued that one of the weaknesses of the Israeli state is that there is a willingness to argue and disagree about everything, and they should certainly do something about their proportional representation system, which allows every single view to be heard.

The idea that there is a single view being expressed by the people in Israel, and that that view is being supported by every single person of Jewish descent in any other part of the world, is simply ludicrous, yet it is a concept that is constantly repeated by those who are irresponsible—to put it kindly—in the way that they are trying to deal with the situation in the middle east. We need to ensure that we always challenge that type of behaviour.

In the same way, I am absolutely fed up of hearing about the so-called Jewish lobby. It is highlighted as something extremely powerful that has the ability to change people’s minds in this place. Well, I saw no evidence of the “Jewish lobby” being particularly successful when there was a recent parliamentary debate about the recognition of Palestine. If the ever-powerful Jewish lobby was really that successful, I suspect that this House would not have voted for that motion, even with only a minority of MPs taking part in the vote. When we hear about this powerful Jewish lobby, I wonder how much of it is in the imagination of those making the claims and what their motivation is for making those claims. I think there is a motivation, and unfortunately it has a background in some attitudes that exist on the European continent, which are simply unacceptable.

In the same way, the constant effort to try to equate the state of Israel with apartheid South Africa is also leading to a climate in which the state of Israel and the Jewish people are being demonised. There is obviously no link between the Jewish people in the UK and the actions of the Israeli state. Nevertheless, it is imperative that we understand the effect that the language used by intellectuals has on public discourse. On recent trips to the Netherlands, one thing that emerged clearly from discussions with members of the Jewish community there was how the intellectual elite in universities was leading the debate to places that they had perhaps not envisaged when they started the calls for divestment and boycotts against Israel. Again, we need to be very careful that the comparisons we make—or that people are making—do not end up leading to anti-Semitic behaviour.

Finally, I want to touch upon my last visit to the Netherlands. According to the statistics, the situation there is slightly better than in the UK. The fact that there are schools in London, where we are now speaking, that are protected by security personnel is simply unacceptable. We live in a country of 64 million people, where we are concerned about the ability to integrate people entering this country from all parts of the world, yet we are almost accepting of the fact that somebody going to a Jewish school in London or Manchester needs to have a security guard on the premises.

I have never visited such a school; indeed, I suspect that I have less than a handful of individuals of Jewish descent—British Jews—living in my constituency, so I have never witnessed such a thing. However, I have to tell the House that, as the father of five children, to turn up to a Jewish secondary school in Amsterdam and see a security guard outside was shocking. The fact that many hon. Members in this House will understand that situation does not make it acceptable. It is unacceptable that the Jewish community, or any other community for that matter, in this country or any other part of Europe should need to resort to having their schools, their synagogues or their churches protected. That is simply unacceptable.

To go to a country such as the Netherlands, which has a tradition of tolerance, and to hear half the members of a group of 16 and 17-year-olds we met—my eldest son is 17—indicate that they saw no future for themselves there was simply shocking. I have always viewed the Netherlands as a tolerant country, and as I have said, the figures for attacks on members of the Jewish community in the Netherlands are actually better than they are in the UK. However, if half the sixth-formers in a Jewish school in Amsterdam say that they see no future for themselves in Europe, then Europe has a lot to be ashamed about. We really need to remember those youngsters and their lack of faith in their future in Europe.

Finally, when we talk about anti-Semitism, it is also important that we recognise that it is an issue that is affecting people. We only have to look at the figures for those individuals leaving France, Belgium and the Netherlands and deciding to make a life for themselves in either Israel or the US to know that we have a problem. We had thought that after the atrocities of the second world war, we might have learned our lesson; I am afraid that we need to learn it all over again.

Israel

Debate between Matthew Offord and Guto Bebb

Wednesday 14th December 2011 Westminster Hall

[Guto Bebb]

I am grateful for that intervention, and I will come to that issue in due course, because I want to talk about the attitudes of the world press and of other Governments towards the current Israeli Prime Minister. I think his actions do not justify the way he is often attacked and portrayed badly in the media.

Let me turn, however, to our Government’s policy towards Israel. In a conflict situation, there is no doubt that the use of language is extremely important. In that respect, I am delighted to see the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) here. When we discuss such issues, language is important. I can vouch for the fact that the hon. Gentleman and I have disagreed on numerous occasions, but I know for a fact that there is not a racist bone in his body. However, a few weeks ago, because of a possibly inappropriate use of language, he found himself in difficulties. The use of language is therefore important.

That is why I requested this debate. The Foreign Secretary recently made a statement on issues in the middle east and north Africa, in which he gave his usual robust explanation of the Government’s position. What that statement perhaps revealed, however, was an imbalance in the use of language. There was almost an implication that the lack of movement on the peace process was the fault of the Israeli Government, and the Israeli Government alone. When we have such debates, it is important that there is a degree of balance, but I think there was a lack of balance in the statement, given the expectation that any move would have to come from the Israeli Government.

It is worth quoting the Foreign Secretary’s words:

“For Israel, the only means of averting unilateral applications to the UN is a return to negotiations. A demonstration of political will and leadership is needed from both sides to break the current impasse”—

I welcome that comment, but the Foreign Secretary continues:

“This includes the Israeli Government being prepared to make a more decisive offer than any they have been willing to make in the past.”—[Official Report, 9 November 2011; Vol. 290, c. 535.]

That indicates a degree of criticism of the Israeli Government by the UK Government, and we have to ask whether that criticism is fair and balanced.

It is clear that peace will be achieved only through negotiation. We know that to be the case, and every Member in this debating Chamber would agree that peace will be achieved only if both parties come to the table and discuss how to create the two-state solution we all want and that we all know is the only way forward for peace in the region. However, it is important to state that if we are to have negotiations, both parties need to engage, and the problem with the statement was that it indicated that the process had stalled because of the lack of an offer from the Israeli Government. To an extent, that ignores history. Perhaps we should ignore history more in the middle east, but the truth is that we need to understand that the Israeli state has made numerous efforts over the past 10 or 12 years to make a clear and generous offer. As yet, there has not been a response from the Palestinians.

[Mr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is making an eloquent speech. He is quite right to say that Israel has made many such offers. In 1979, for example, it made its offer to Egypt, and the agreement between the two countries has been very successful. In 1994, it made a similar offer to Jordan, which has also been very successful. In 2005, it made what many consider a huge sacrifice by removing itself from Gaza. History has shown that the Palestinian side did not accept that in the spirit the Israeli Government intended.

[Guto Bebb]

I am grateful for that intervention; indeed, I suspect I can now throw away two pages of my speech. The Camp David accords of 2000 were a major offer for peace by Israel. I think I am right in saying that if the offer had been accepted, something like 97% of the land in the west bank and Gaza would have been available to create a viable Palestinian state. Indeed, in that regard, the highlight of my visit to Israel and the west bank was my visit to Ramallah, which was not the third-world enclave I had been told to expect, but a vibrant city that was growing and clearly prospering. It was perhaps not growing to the extent it should have been, but it was growing by 10% per annum, and I am sure the Chancellor would be delighted to swap.

The point I raised about the Camp David accords is extremely important, because the offer of 97% of the land in return for peace stalled on Israel’s demand that the Palestinian Authority included in the agreement a statement that the agreement would end the conflict. When the British Government say that Israel has to make a generous offer, we in the UK must be very aware of its demand for an end to the conflict. After 30 years of waste and loss of life in Northern Ireland, we managed to bring all the parties, including the British Government, to the negotiating table, and a key element was the demand that the republican movement in the north of Ireland accepted that there was an end to the war. In terms of creating trust, it is imperative that both parties feel that the negotiation will finish the conflict, and that the option of going back to the conflict is not allowed.

The Camp David accords failed on Israel’s claim that the Palestinian Authority would have to agree that there was an end to conflict, and it is extremely disappointing that that did not happen. In addition, of course, the Israeli Government took the decision to move out of Gaza in 2005. Time and again we are told that the crisis and problems in the middle east—