Financial Risk Checks for Gambling

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ronnie Cowan

Monday 26th February 2024 Westminster Hall

[Ronnie Cowan]

I absolutely take on board what the hon. Gentleman says. I apologise if I worded that wrongly; I was talking about the sessions that we had at the APPG for gambling-related harm. I appreciate that, as was pointed out earlier, many people have been touched by the curse of gambling addiction.

The point is that it is understandable that so many people have raced to sign e-petition 649894, which calls on the UK Government not to implement the proposed financial risk checks for online gambling. The gambling industry has led and paid for this lobbying and has been hellbent on spreading disinformation that is designed to create uncertainty and raise concerns among people who enjoy the occasional gamble. I understand the punters’ point of view. They feel the fear behind this, because it is a message that they have been fed.

The truth about affordability checks is more complicated, however. I am not a prohibitionist. How many times have I had to say that? I am not trying to ban gambling, but I do want to create a safe environment for it. It may come as a surprise that affordability checks were not the invention of the APPG for gambling-related harm. This is not some mendacious ploy that the group is using; the idea was mooted in 2019 by Tom Watson, when I believe he was still the MP for West Bromwich East. Industry leader Richard Flint, who was at Sky Bet, supported Mr Watson by saying that too many people were losing money that they could not afford online. We need to work together with the industry and the Government to limit that harm.

I think that limits on spend, rather than on stakes, are the right way to go, and those limits should be based on affordability. Richard Flint acknowledged that such limits could lead to a drop in operator revenue. He clarified:

“There will be some online firms in the short term that…make less money as a consequence”.

Getting straight to the point, he added:

“but then…that spend shouldn’t happen anyway.”

That is a point that the Jockey Club should have considered when its chief executive officer launched this petition. It has cited a potential loss of £5 million on the horseracing betting levy, which according to its own board’s annual report was worth £100 million. But what price a life? What price the number of people who have been driven to complete suicide?

I return to the need for affordability checks. A year later, at the 2020 Lords Committee, the UK’s biggest operators—the chief executive officers of the big five—spoke enthusiastically about the need for affordability checks as a key mechanism to reduce harm. An industry CEO said that

“the way to go is affordability and to ensure that, when people come to our sites, they can only afford to lose or bet an amount that, quite frankly, they can afford and were comfortable with.”

So what is new? What is new is that, since the White Paper, the Government and the Gambling Commission have proposed threshold figures for the checks. Affordability is no longer an abstract concept; it is tied to precise thresholds.

The industry does not like the fact that the White Paper has called its bluff, so it is kicking up a storm. It is clear that those who might be categorised as the pro-gambling lobby and those such as myself, who could be described as the safer gambling lobby, agree that if we are to create a safe environment, affordability is an area that needs tightening up. I wonder whether that was explained to everyone who signed the petition.

The petition states:

“The proposed checks could see bettors having to prove they can afford their hobby if they sustain losses as low as £1.37 per day.”

That figure has been scoffed at a few times in this debate, but it is £500 a year. It may mean nothing to us as MPs on 86 grand a year, but that £500 a year could be the difference for some poor people who are trying to put money in the meter or food on the table. What we are trying to do is to stop them getting to the point at which they lose that money in the first place. Please do not belittle that. If the checks say people can afford it, they can afford it. We are trying to help those at risk. Surely all gamblers can see that, because they understand risk.

The UK Government have already said that

“the proposed checks are only on the very highest spending online customers”.

The Gambling Commission estimates that

“approximately 20% of customer accounts will meet the threshold required for a financial vulnerability check”.

The next line of the petition is about the black market. The Gambling Commission has already reported to us that the size of the online black market has been overstated by the industry and must be kept in proportion. It follows that if we want to prevent the growth of the black market, the solution is regulation to prevent harm that leads to addiction. It will eliminate demand for a black market, not cause it. Harm prevention will mean fewer addicts, fewer self-exclusions and fewer attempts to circumvent the regulated market in the first place.

The key is in the last line of the petition:

“We are concerned there will also be a negative impact on British horseracing’s finances due to a reduction in betting turnover and resulting fall in Levy yield.”

That is a Trojan horse if ever I have seen one.

[Matt Hancock]

I have been listening with increasing disappointment to the tone that the hon. Member has taken. Given the importance of tackling problem gambling, does he recognise, like the 7,000 people who live in my constituency, the importance of horseracing? Does he recognise that horseracing betting has an equally low rate of associated problem gambling as betting on the national lottery? The national lottery is carved out of this proposal. Should not horseracing betting also be carved out, so we can all concentrate on tackling gambling harms, exactly as the hon. Member would like us to?

[Ronnie Cowan]

I was bringing attention to the message that has clearly been given out by the UK Government. The Government are keen to ensure that the measures such as the proposed changes do not adversely affect racing or interrupt the customer journey. They also cannot push away high net worth individuals such as the owners and trainers who invest in the sport. I would suggest that it is not for me to say this; the Government are all over it. The Government understand the difference between online gambling, casino gambling and horseracing.

The key to the problem is that people are spending more than they can afford. As a result, some are dying. That is the human cost, and that cost is completely unacceptable.

Coronavirus

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ronnie Cowan

Monday 9th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Yes, absolutely, and if my right hon. Friend could bring the individual concerns to my attention, I would be very happy to look into them.

[Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP)]

My constituents of Inverclyde are expecting 80 visits from cruise ships during the sailing season, which starts in April, including from the Regal Princess, which is due in on 10 May. What plans do the UK Government have in place should there be an outbreak on a cruise ship in UK waters?

[Matt Hancock]

We are, of course, working with Public Health England on making sure that we have the right answers should this happen. Looking into what happens on cruise ships and what advice will be given with respect to people going on future cruises is a critical piece of work that we are undertaking.

Access to Medical Cannabis

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ronnie Cowan

Monday 8th April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Yes, the call for randomised control trials and the process evaluation are both being conducted very urgently by NHS England.

[Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP)]

There are lots of warm words circulating here today. My question relates to the point that was just made. We have this problem today, but clinical trials will take six months, nine months or a year. What can we reasonably do legally to get certified products that we know will work into the hands of parents with children who desperately need them today?

[Matt Hancock]

I entirely understand the hon. Gentleman’s point, and I feel the same way as he does about the urgency of these cases. The need to get a second opinion can be actioned immediately, and it will be, because the crucial point is that unlicensed medicines cannot be prescribed without a clinician. There are just over 95,000 clinicians on the specialist register, and any of those who have expertise in this area can, if their clinical judgment allows, make these prescriptions. That can happen right now.

Eurotunnel: Payment

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ronnie Cowan

Monday 4th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I am sure that the hon. Lady’s constituents will need to be confident that there is medicine for them, whatever the scenario is under Brexit, and that is what this settlement is all about.

[Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP)]

Is the Minister aware of the number of healthcare companies that are reluctantly extending their bank credit so that they can stockpile goods and components because of the lack of forward planning by this Government? What can he do to help those companies and also to help the banks that have to lend on longer terms than they normally would have an appetite for?

[Matt Hancock]

I mentioned in my statement that the pharmaceutical industry has stepped up to the plate and acted extremely responsibly in order to put in place the stockpiling that is necessary for a contingency in the event of a no-deal Brexit. All of us in this House can do something about the potential of a no-deal Brexit: we can vote for the deal.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ronnie Cowan

Tuesday 24th July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Those are really important questions. On funding, I announced only last week £487 million to improve technology and technology services to ensure that they can be as high quality as possible. On patient safety, the key is to keep improving technology so that it gets better and better. On universal access, we must use technology in such a way that patients who want to access services through technology can do so, as that frees up resources so that more can be done for those who do not want to use technology, meaning that we preserve universal access.

[Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP)]

2. What recent discussions he has had with the Home Secretary on policies to tackle drug-related harm.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ronnie Cowan

Thursday 21st June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s support and for that of many Members across the House for the action we are taking on problem gambling. Clearly it is important to ensure that we tackle online issues as well. That is complicated by the nature of the technology, but the Gambling Commission is working hard to ensure that the right protections are in place.

[Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP)]

I once again congratulate the Secretary of State on introducing the £2 maximum stake for FOBTs. Will he use his considerable persuasive powers to talk to his colleagues at the Treasury and get that implemented by April 2019, and not a day later?

[Matt Hancock]

Of course, this needs to go through Parliament, and there is a process that needs to be followed. In order to cover any negative impact on the public finances, the change needs to be linked to an increase in remote gaming duty, paid for by online gaming operators at the relevant Budget. There are steps that need to be taken, but the hon. Gentleman knows just how enthusiastic I am to get this in place.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ronnie Cowan

Thursday 21st December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I am pretty sure that my hon. Friend’s son does not watch Parliament TV, so his secret should be safe—[Interruption.] Well, he certainly does not watch it yet. My hon. Friend makes the point that we need decent connectivity everywhere, and the Government are bringing in the universal service obligation to ensure that decent broadband can be available to everybody, fulfilling our manifesto commitment and delivering that by 2020.

[Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP)]

Last week the Gambling Commission issued a report that highlighted that 80% of young people aged between 11 and 16 have seen gambling on television, 70% on social media, and 66% on websites. Does the Minister agree that more action must be taken to educate young people positively about the risks of gambling, as that could help them to avoid gambling-related harm later in life? A statutory levy on bookmakers could go a long way to funding that education.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ronnie Cowan

Wednesday 27th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP)]

13. What recent discussions he has had with Sir John Chilcot on the final publication date of the Iraq inquiry.

[The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (Matthew Hancock)]

The Government continue to publish a wide range of data sets. More than 22,000 are now available on the Government website.

[Ronnie Cowan]

With no Chilcot report, no lessons learnt and seemingly none the wiser, will the Minister agree that the constant delays are unacceptable and are an insult both to those involved in the conflict and to those who lost loved ones?

[Matthew Hancock]

We have had this debate many times. The Chilcot inquiry is rightly independent, so it would not be right for me to comment on the timings, but a timetable has now been published, which I am sure the hon. Gentleman will welcome.