Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Matt Hancock and Gordon Marsden

Monday 24th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab)]

16. What steps he plans to take to improve vocational education.

[The Minister for Skills and Enterprise (Matthew Hancock)]

Driving up the rigour and responsiveness of vocational education is a critical part of this Government’s mission to give everyone the education they need to fulfil their potential.

--- Later in debate ---

[Matthew Hancock]

The first thing I would say is that we have ameliorated the change so that no institution will lose more than 2% in the coming financial year. The second thing I would say is that we had to make this change because of the mess left in the public finances by the Labour party. [Interruption.] Labour Members do not like it, but it is the truth, and until they get used to admitting their fault, nobody will trust them with the economy again.

[Mr Marsden]

Which does the Minister think causes most damage to vocational education in Blackpool—his 17.5% cut in college funding, which is capped for only one year at 2%, or his abject failure to promote or offer any properly financially supported traineeships for young people?

[Matthew Hancock]

Of course, there would not be traineeships were it not for this Government. I would say that the most damaging thing to young people’s futures is a Labour Government.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Matt Hancock and Gordon Marsden

Thursday 18th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

It is very good news that youth unemployment is falling—there was a 20,000 fall announced yesterday—but it is still too high, and there is still much more to do. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s work, and the work of others across the House, to make sure that apprenticeships and traineeships are available in future to help with that.

[Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab)]

Does not the Minister’s rhetoric on apprenticeships hit the buffers in reality? No amount of his crowing or tweeting alters the latest facts: there is a 13% drop in 16 to 18-year-olds starting apprenticeships, and a 6% drop across the board. He has failed to take up our plans to create thousands of new apprenticeships via Government procurement, and he has also failed to get a deal with Department for Work and Pensions Ministers. The Association of Colleges said yesterday that 14 to 19-year-olds taking up his new traineeships, so that they can move on to apprenticeships, are not likely to have any money to live on. When will he stop dithering and start delivering?

[Matthew Hancock]

We are delivering the new traineeships from next month. Given the need, after years of inaction, to bring together support for work experience and skills for those approaching the job market, I would have thought that the hon. Gentleman would welcome that. I would have thought that the Opposition would have supported the rise in the number of apprenticeships to record levels since the election.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Matt Hancock and Gordon Marsden

Thursday 21st March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

That is an important point. The TechBacc aims to do precisely what the right hon. Gentleman suggests, alongside making apprenticeships the new norm. We want to make clear the progression routes that people can take to get into the career that they want. I am happy to look at any other steps we can take, but simplification is the order of the day.

[Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab)]

Does the Minister realise that success in vocational education is a game of two halves? We will get the expansion in quality apprenticeships we need only if he has prepared the ground, which means proper support for vocational education in schools, on which the Government are failing. The latest research from the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development shows that parents remain doubtful. Therefore, in his second day job as a Minister in the Department for Education, will he restore key stage 4 work experience and dedicated funding for face-to-face guidance, for which half the people surveyed by the CIPD and the employers I speak to are crying out?

[Matthew Hancock]

We are introducing work experience as part of the study programmes in sixth forms and for 16 to 18-year-olds. The new duty on schools to provide independent and impartial advice is an important step we have taken from this summer.

Apprenticeships

Debate between Matt Hancock and Gordon Marsden

Thursday 14th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for his statement.

In one respect at least, the Government have dealt comprehensively with the Richard review: they have comprehensively fudged or ignored most of his main recommendations. It reminds me of the old saying from the Clerk in the Table Office that one will always get a reply from Ministers, but not always an answer. I have been through the 10 specific recommendations that Doug Richard laid out in his report on apprenticeships. With the exception of the redefinition of the apprenticeship outcomes and the other matters that the Minister mentioned in that respect, all of which we agree with and welcome, I would give his answers two and a half out of 10 or possibly three. [Interruption.] Government Members should compare forensically the recommendations and what the Government have said.

It would be interesting to hear what Mr Richard makes of the Government’s response to his report. Ministers and their advisers were clearly too nervous to obtain or include any comment from him in their press release. They also completely omitted any reference to Mr Richard’s central recommendation on incentives for employers to invest in apprenticeship training.

There is a depressing pattern in the Government’s responses to new ideas for apprenticeships. They pat their advisers on the head, but ignore the main conclusions of the reviews that they have set up. They ignored Jason Holt’s advice last year on boosting apprenticeships with small and medium-sized enterprises, such as the need for impartial face-to-face careers guidance for young people. They voted here on Tuesday against the proposal of the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee to use public procurement to boost apprenticeship numbers. Now they have sidelined the key recommendation of Doug Richard’s report, again ignoring the need for a proper programme of advice and work experience in schools.

I want to ask the Minister the following questions. One of the central points of Doug Richard’s report was the need to incentivise employers’ funding. Does the Minister see the recommendations on funding made by Doug Richard and Lord Heseltine as complementary? What view does Mr Richard take of that?

The Government response says only that they are moving towards improving the attainment of level 2 functional maths and English. Why have they ignored Richard’s key recommendation that people should have level 2 functional maths and English before the completion of an apprenticeship? Will the Minister do anything to introduce work-based learning to support entry to employment and apprenticeships, as recommended by Mr Richard? Will he confirm that the Secretary of State for Education will provide dedicated funding for face-to-face guidance in schools to deliver improved awareness of apprenticeships among students and parents, as Mr Richard recommended? What measures will he take to support smaller businesses engaging with the apprenticeship system, and what is the timetable for that? How will the Government implement the new definition of apprenticeships as recommended by Mr Richard, and when will they do that? Finally, why have they ignored Doug Richard’s proposal to make some off-site learning mandatory?

The Government have ignored the key point with which Mr Richard began his recommendations. He said:

“It is important to stress that the different elements must be taken collectively: they are interlinked and the system will only make sense and be deliverable if all the elements are adopted as a whole”.

The Skills Minister has failed completely in his second day job at the Department for Education to reanimate the dead hand of the Secretary of State, whose fingers are all over this report on the failures of apprenticeships, failure to deliver work experience, and failure to make changes to guidance. No wonder employers and business organisations are wringing their hands over the Minister’s failure to take up fresh proposals from Holt and Richard. It is just as well that the Labour party has set up a skills taskforce that will come forward with fresh ideas to deliver the step changes that employers need, and address the crucial issues raised by Holt and Richard, which the Government have shown they are ignoring.

[Matthew Hancock]

I do not know whether the shadow Minister turned up after I answered several of the questions that he has asked. Given that the Government commissioned and welcomed this report, and put in place a consultation on the implementation of the principles within, I do not know how they can be ducking that report. If a report is published, and the Government publish a response setting out how they will take forward its recommendations, that is very much taking on that report and its recommendations, not the contrary.

On the specific questions, I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman was present when I said that employers will be given greater control of funding to ensure that it is directed where it most adds value, and that costs will be shared. That is the answer to his specific question on funding. We agree with the principles, we are working and consulting on the options, and we will come forward with a full implementation plan in the autumn.

On information, advice and guidance, it is, of course, vital that schools give independent and impartial careers advice, and we are implementing that statutory duty. On small businesses, the whole point behind making the funding co-funded by and flowing through businesses, is to make it easier for businesses to access that funding. The brutal fact is that at the moment, more than half of apprenticeships are in small and medium-sized businesses.

The biggest disappointment is that on a set of reforms that will improve and strengthen the quality of apprenticeships, there was not one positive word from the Opposition Front-Bench spokesman. I have no doubt that we will hear positive words from elsewhere in the Chamber about the value of apprenticeships and how they help everybody reach their potential, but there was not a single positive word from the Opposition.

Apprenticeships

Debate between Matt Hancock and Gordon Marsden

Tuesday 12th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

I cannot, I am afraid; I have virtually no time left.

The hon. Members for Birmingham, Northfield (Richard Burden), for Rotherham (Sarah Champion), for Bradford East (Mr Ward), for North Tyneside (Mrs Glindon) and for Copeland (Mr Reed) talked about the value of apprenticeships. In particular, the hon. Member for Copeland spoke powerfully about how apprenticeships now reflect the modern economy and are spreading into relatively new areas of the economy. All this fits the argument made by the Prime Minister yesterday that there should be a new norm in our country whereby school leavers go to university or into an apprenticeship so that we have a high-skilled economy and a high-skilled work force, not only so that every individual can reach their potential—their personal best—but so that our economy can compete in the global race. I am glad to see cross-party consensus on the importance of the global race.

The hon. Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) mentioned many things; I was intrigued by her speech. I want to pick out her mention of the world skills competition, which is a brilliant, fascinating and exciting competition that everybody should watch; certainly, I thoroughly enjoyed watching it.

Members have mentioned the need to increase the number of apprenticeships and I can announce that, in addition to the three apprentices in my private offices, the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills will advertise tomorrow for three further apprentices in our communications department. The numbers are going up and up.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle) and the Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, my right hon. Friend the Member for Sevenoaks (Michael Fallon), have said, while we and many local authorities are broadly supportive of and, indeed, leading on procurement apprenticeships, such as those with Crossrail, I am concerned that the motion is defective, because it appears to call on the Government to exceed their legal powers. Given my assurances, I hope that the Opposition will not push for a vote.

[Mr Marsden]

The motion states that the Government should use

“the billions of pounds committed to public procurement”,

but our interpretation is that that does not automatically mean procurement in local government, although we believe that the Government have an important role to play in promoting that. I do not understand why the Minister thinks that the motion is defective.

[Matthew Hancock]

The phrase “public procurement” could easily be interpreted as including procurement in local government, national Government and agencies. The motion was tabled only late last night and it would not be advisable for the House of Commons to vote for something that might not be legal. I am afraid that we must resist the motion, but I hope that, given our reassurances, we can all agree on the need for procurement where possible and for it to represent good value for money. I hope there will not be a vote.

Finally, many Members, including the hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans), mentioned the importance of increased quality and employer focus. Members discussed the cross-party desire for parity of esteem among vocational routes, apprenticeships and universities. It is my passionate belief that parity of esteem will come from parity of quality. We need to increase quality throughout the apprenticeship system so that all apprentices can be as good as the very best at MBDA, Morrisons and Rolls-Royce, which have been mentioned by many Members.

We have taken steps to increase quality: we have insisted that people need to continue with English and maths if they do not have a C grade at GCSE, and have said that there needs to be a minimum of a year in almost all circumstances and a job as part of an apprenticeship. The removal of programme-led apprenticeships has taken out 18,000 apprenticeship places, which is a far higher number than that for the decrease in apprenticeships for 16 to 19-year-olds over the past year. Under the previous Government some apprenticeships did not involve a job, so apprentices were training with no prospect of a job, and astonishingly, some apprenticeships involved jobs without training. At their heart, apprenticeships are about earning and learning at the same time. Increasing quality is vital and I will not apologise for that.

We will respond to the Richard review and are in favour of rigorous apprenticeships that are responsive to employers’ needs. We want to ensure a new norm that gives everyone a good opportunity to reach their potential. We should not use a target to push people into university when it may be best for them to go into an apprenticeship. Instead, let us provide the best possible opportunities for young people, through university and apprenticeships, and a ladder of progression from level 2 to levels 3, 4 and beyond to new areas of the economy, including legal services and accountancy, as well as the more traditional areas of engineering and construction. In that way, we can ensure that there is the potential for everybody to succeed.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Matt Hancock and Gordon Marsden

Thursday 7th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

I would be pleased to support Johnson Matthey and the work it is doing to expand the number of people in apprenticeships, and indeed to increase the quality of apprenticeships. I know that the apprenticeships it offers are of high quality and it is well worth raising awareness of that and getting involved.

[Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab)]

The Government’s latest figures show that apprenticeship starts for young people under 19 are down by 15%, and Ministers are complacent about the risks to apprenticeships for over 24-year-olds from their further education loan plans. It is obvious that we urgently need a game- changer for apprenticeships, so why is the Minister still ignoring what the Opposition and now the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee have called for: Government procurement contracts, not least on projects such as high-speed rail, to ensure that companies sign up thousands of new apprenticeships in order to win those contracts?

[Matthew Hancock]

The shadow Minister does rather better when we take politics out of apprenticeships, not least because there has been a record number of apprenticeship starts over the past year. On HS2, I say only that Crossrail—the largest construction project in Europe and signed off by this Government—has precisely the sort of arrangement for which he asks.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Matt Hancock and Gordon Marsden

Thursday 20th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

My hon. Friend is a passionate advocate for Central Bedfordshire college. I am glad to say that the increased funding provided in the autumn statement means that those bids that narrowly missed out, such as that of Central Bedfordshire college, have a very good chance of proceeding at the next stage, not least because that college’s bid was very good value for money, though it fell down on some technical aspects. We are looking very closely at how we can proceed with the new funds available.

[Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab)]

As well as needing bricks and mortar, a modern learning environment in further education colleges means expanding qualifications and courses, particularly in science, engineering and technology. The Gatsby Foundation, backed by Lord Sainsbury, told Doug Richard’s apprenticeship review that we would need more than 400,000 technicians at levels 3 and 4 over the next eight years and that we could guarantee quality apprenticeships in that regard by linking them to professional registration. Does the Minister agree that that offers an excellent opportunity for FE colleges and others to take a lead, but that they need extra resources for those subjects now, not later, if older learners are not to be put off from becoming technicians, as we have argued, and his predecessor, the hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes), agreed when making concessions on FE loans?

[Matthew Hancock]

There was rather a lot in that question. I certainly agree with Lord Sainsbury. The Gatsby Foundation does excellent work in producing more occupational qualifications that have the standing of the industries they support. More occupational qualifications in this country would be a very good thing, because we have serious skills shortages, not least, as the hon. Gentleman has said, in the STEM subjects—science, technology, engineering and maths—particularly engineering. We are doing everything we can, including working with Lord Sainsbury, to turn that situation around.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Matt Hancock and Gordon Marsden

Thursday 8th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

I welcome the Select Committee’s report. The focus on quality in apprenticeships is important. We have already said that almost all apprenticeships must be longer than a year, and we have taken action to close down some low-quality provision, so this is a direction that I very much want to go in. I will be studying the recommendations of the report extremely carefully.

[Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab)]

After the rhetoric, has the Minister read what the all-party Select Committee said in its report last week about his Department’s handling of apprenticeships? It said that the apprenticeship scheme

“continues to lack clarity and purpose”

and an “overarching strategy” to succeed. Those are the latest in a series of warnings to the Department. There was Jason Holt’s report on small and medium-sized enterprises. Apprenticeship starts over the past year are down for under-19-year-olds in seven out of the nine English regions, down in engineering by 30%, and down in construction by 18%. The Minister’s own officials say that one in five apprenticeships get no training, and, as we heard, the Select Committee has issued strong warnings about quality. When will his Department take practical steps such as those that we have urged for almost a year, requiring big companies that want Government contracts to take on apprentices? If the Minister does not get a grip on this, it is not Pitt or Disraeli that he will have to compare himself to, but being in the bunker in charge of phantom armies.

[Matthew Hancock]

I am glad the shadow Minister has mined the report for all the negatives. I want to start with the opening sentence of the Select Committee report, which says, “We welcome the commitment of this Government to apprenticeships.” This Government commissioned Jason Holt’s report so of course I welcome it. We have already taken action to improve quality and we will take more action. Not least am I looking forward to the Doug Richard report later this month. The vital thing to do is not only to increase the quantity of apprenticeships, as we have done, but to make sure that they provide excellent value for money, so that all those apprentices throughout the country get a brilliant education as well as training in work, and that is what we will deliver.