Intelligence and Security Committee

Debate between Martin Horwood and James Brokenshire

Monday 21st November 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (James Brokenshire)]

We have had an important and wide-ranging debate that has illustrated how important it is that the public should be confident that the Government’s national security work is being robustly scrutinised. Last week the Foreign Secretary said:

“I believe it is vital that the British public and Parliament have confidence in the Agencies’ ability to keep us safe and to do so within the framework of the law; and that they also have confidence in government using this capability wisely, and in accordance with our democratic values and principles of domestic and international law.”

That comment sums up well the Committee’s challenges and the themes that ran through this evening’s debate. I am grateful to hon. Members on both sides of the House for raising a number of pertinent points. We heard 16 speeches, and the debate has been considered and well informed. I fear that in the eight or so minutes available to me I will not be able to do justice to the contributions we have heard.

Before I address those points, let me first thank my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Kensington (Sir Malcolm Rifkind), the Committee’s Chair, for the work he and his Committee have undertaken over the past year. The Committee and its staff continue to adopt a constructive and professional approach, for which the Government are grateful. It is vital that we have a strong framework for overseeing the work of the security and intelligence agencies. As my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary has said, the quality of the ISC’s annual report underlines the unique and valuable role it plays in this framework.

Several of the contributions we have heard this evening have focused on the justice and security Green Paper and the proposals it outlines to ensure that justice can be done in the full range of civil proceedings by allowing the courts to take full and fair account of all the relevant information, even when some of it is too sensitive to be disclosed publicly. The overall aim is to allow cases involving national security to be heard fairly, fully and safely in our courts, and I think that that sense of safety underpinned a number of the contributions we heard this evening. This will allow sensitive material to be considered in court proceedings without the risk of vital intelligence or essential international intelligence-sharing relationships being compromised.

Sensitive material is essential for UK national security. It is used to prevent terrorist attacks, disrupt serious crime networks and make the case for executive actions such as deportation and asset freezing. Closed material procedures are the central provision in the Green Paper. Extending their availability across all civil judicial proceedings will provide a framework that enables the courts to consider material that is too sensitive to be disclosed in open court but that protects the fundamental elements that make up a fair trial and UK national security. We welcome the Committee’s support for the proposals.

The other aspect of the Green Paper that has been the focus of much of today’s debate is the proposal to strengthen, clarify and modernise the arrangements for overseeing the work of the security and intelligence agencies and the wider intelligence community. The proposals are designed to ensure that oversight arrangements are as effective and credible as possible and to provide reassurance to Parliament and the public that the agencies operate in a proper and legal manner.

I am grateful to the ISC for the very active and constructive role that it has played in developing proposals for its reform. The Government and the Committee agree on the right approach to the vast majority of those proposals, including formalising the role of the ISC with regard to oversight of the wider intelligence community, making it a statutory Committee of Parliament and allowing it to report to Parliament as well as to the Prime Minister. The ISC would also be given the power to require information from the agencies.

As my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary has said, however, although the Green Paper proposes that we consider the extent to which the ISC might in future oversee the operational activity of the agencies, no decisions have yet been made in that regard. Before making any decisions, we would need to understand the consequences of creating such a broad power, including the impact on the operational effectiveness of the agencies and on the Foreign and Home Secretaries’ own responsibilities for them.

A number of points have been made about the agencies’ resources and the ability to respond to threats. In addition to the real and serious threat from international terrorism, particularly from al-Qaeda and its affiliates, we continue to face threats from residual terrorist groups linked to Northern Ireland, as well as from cyber-attack and from traditional espionage—a point very effectively made by my hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis).

I welcome the ISC’s conclusion that the agencies have been given a fair settlement in the most recent spending review, which will allow them to continue their essential work of keeping us all safe, but of course they are not immune from the pressures of the wider economic climate, and delivering more support or back-office functions together will ensure that the agencies can play their part in making savings while prioritising resources to support the front line.

[Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD)]

Will the Minister give way?

[James Brokenshire]

I am afraid that I will not, because I have three minutes left in which to get through a range of other points. I do apologise to my hon. Friend.

Let me make it clear: there is no question of allowing our national security to be diminished in order to make savings. The agencies have always prioritised their resources to meet the highest threats to our national security, and they will continue to do so. There is no clearer example of that than the Olympics, which throw up a number of security challenges, but agility and flexibility are core and established strengths of the British intelligence community. The agencies continue to enhance their capacity in preparation for the games, and their plans for meeting the additional challenges of London 2012 are mature and remain on track, including in relation to the recruitment of additional personnel.

A number of points have been made about cyber-security, and the Government welcome the ISC’s acknowledgement of the real and increasing risk to the UK’s national security from cyber-attack. It is one of the highest priority risks that we face, and the Government have allocated—I know that many Members recognise this—an additional £650 million of funding over four years to enhance the response to threats from cyberspace through a transformative national cyber-security programme. Much of that money will fund activity by the agencies, but we have sought to provide clear accountability on cyber-security through the Office of Cyber Security and Information Assurance and the role that my right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General plays in providing such oversight, while recognising the role that other Ministers and Departments have to play in that important agenda.

As well as providing resources, we are committed to providing the agencies with the powers that they need. That is why the Government have introduced the Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill, combined with new resources for the police and security services to replace the current control orders regime, which is neither perfect nor entirely effective. TPIMs will provide robust and effective powers for dealing with the risks posed by suspected terrorists whom we can neither prosecute nor deport, and they are part of a wider package of work to ensure that we have the most appropriate and effective powers to address the terrorist threats. Arrangements will be in place to manage the transition from control orders to TPIMs effectively.

In conclusion, I pay tribute to the security and intelligence agencies for the enormous contribution that they make in ensuring that the British public are kept safe and properly protected. We all owe them a debt of gratitude for the fundamental and indispensable role that they play in keeping our nation safe.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the matter of the 2010-11 Annual Report from the Intelligence and Security Committee (Cm 8114).