Draft International Criminal Police Organisation (Immunities and Privileges) Order 2023

Martin Docherty-Hughes Excerpts

Wednesday 17th May 2023 General Committees

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

It is good to see you in the Chair, Mr Davies. Like the official Opposition, we will not oppose the motion, but I have a few questions; I am sure that the Minister would be surprised if I did not. Also like the official Opposition, I welcome the idea of the general assembly being held here in the UK. Nevertheless, I have a few concerns as we have been moving out of Europol into Interpol. Perhaps the Minister could clarify our relationship with Europol, notably our access to the Schengen Information System. My belief is that that will be ending, or has ended. We need clarification on that.

Police services across the whole UK, not just in Scotland, are concerned about no longer having access to real-time or immediate alerts from the European Union Europol system. Perhaps the Minister could clarify that. The general point raises a constituency issue for me. If there is not that kind of bilateral relationship, and therefore quicker transfer, arrest and extradition of prisoners, that brings me to a case mentioned on the Floor of the House only the other day during Justice questions: that of Dean Woods, who escaped from Her Majesty’s Prison—as it was at the time—Sudbury last year in Derbyshire. He was sentenced to 12 years for his role in an £8 million cocaine ring in February 2020.

The Minister may wonder why I am raising that specific case, which is a matter of public record. There is every possibility that Mr Woods is no longer in the United Kingdom, because he was also arrested for the possible murder of my constituent Lisa Brown. If Mr Woods has absconded to Spain, what is the difference now that we are no longer in Europol and rely on the Interpol system to bring about his arrest or possible return to the United Kingdom? That is a real question for real people, and has a profound impact on the judicial system across the whole of the UK and Northern Ireland. We are looking for clarity from the Minister on how this type of system embeds and builds on what was a perfectly decent system through Europol. We will not oppose the motion, but these are real matters that impact at least my constituents, and they are looking for some answers.

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

On the specific questions around Europol and Home Office-specific cases, I will ask my colleagues at the Home Office to reply to the hon. Gentleman more fully because I am not briefed on the detail and I would not want to give an incorrect response. This statutory instrument is specifically about bringing an international organisation into the purview of our International Organisations Act.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

I appreciate that the Minister may not have the specifics, but the SI relates to the replacement of the previous Europol system with Interpol. She must be aware that that makes substantial changes to how we engage with our European partners.

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

Interpol is the international network, working together across all parts of the world. The SI will allow it to hold its annual general assembly here in the UK next year, and we are pleased and proud to be hosting it.

The hon. Member for Hornsey and Wood Green raised an important question about the privileges and immunities that will come from the SI for representatives of countries such as Russia or China. They will be entitled to send representatives. All 195 members of Interpol receive an invitation to every general assembly, and the UK is required to honour those invitations. Ministers have considered that aspect and the associated risks very closely, and I highlight that, other than for the secretary general, the diplomatic immunity provisions are very small for the wider cohort and relate only to official activities going on while those delegates are here in the UK for the general assembly. Otherwise, they remain normal citizens.