Draft Parliamentary Works Sponsor Body (Abolition) Regulations 2022

Mark Tami Excerpts

Monday 12th December 2022 General Committees

[Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)]

I should say that I am currently a member of the sponsor body, although not for much longer. As my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol West said, I have had the pleasure or the misfortune—whichever way you want to look at it—to sit on, I think, every single Committee that has looked at this process since it began.

I used to work with a colleague who, when he was given legal advice he did not like, would tell us to get another lawyer, and would keep doing so until he got the answer he wanted. That really sums up where we are today. The sponsor body was given a task, and I think it carried out that task very well. The problem is that certain individuals in this place—I will not name them—did not like that, and they did not like what the sponsor body came up with. I think the sponsor body was very honest, and did a hell of a lot of work on this project, but it is not going to be a quick project; it is not going to be a cheap project; and it will be a project where, whatever people want, we will end up having to move out of this building. The fact is that some people do not want to move out, and now, after years of work and hundreds of millions of pounds, I would say that we are back at the beginning again, but I think we are actually further back than when we started.

We also need to remember why the model of the sponsor board and delivery authority was chosen in the first place. Following on from the Olympic model, recognising that this was not going to be a project that could be delivered in one term of a Parliament and that colleagues and views change from one election to the next, we needed a structure that took the project away from us tampering and changing our mind on everything. As my hon. Friend has said, the danger is that we do not actually get anywhere with this, because it is always too difficult for one Parliament to do it.

Colleagues have said, “We need to deliver it quicker, and we need to spend less money.” I would like to see how we square that circle. However, the decision has been made, so we are where we are. We will probably regret what we are doing today; I think bringing the project in-house is a mistake. Certainly, if we look at the many projects that have been delivered in-house, it is not a great record of success in terms of cost and time, but we are where we are.

I have one final point, which is on engagement. I have chaired many sessions, and we all know what we are like in this place: we all say we want more engagement—we want people to talk to us more—but we do not turn up to the meetings, because we have got something else to do. That is the reality of the situation: the decision has effectively been made, but I fear we will rue that decision.

--- Later in debate ---

[Penny Mordaunt]

I do not want to pre-empt the work that is being done next year, but the hon. Lady is right. I am very sceptical about us being able to dislodge their lordships for starters. Although there will be things that can be done to work around and bypass systems while they are worked on, we obviously have to take into account noise, disruption and a whole raft of things. I think the majority of our colleagues want to minimise the amount of time we are out of the building. Of course they do. I think the problem that happened with what she refers to is that, quite rightly, people were given a task, but the conclusions people came to were too far adrift from the expectations.

I think there is a way through this, but unless we change the approach, get granularity in so we can see the schedule of works that needs to happen, and unless we can get into that Chamber and have a proper survey done, we will not move forward fast. That is our shared aim, and I think that is where we will get to. The right hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside, who has put in more hours than most on this, rightly notes that today we are just implementing a decision of both Houses. I want to make progress, and I want people to be prepared when they are considering standing for election and when colleagues are considering re-standing that they know what future Parliaments will look like in this place. I think we will be helping ourselves.

[Mark Tami]

We all tend to talk about ourselves in this place, but it is actually about the thousands of people who work here—their safety, how they work and can continue to work. It is not just about us.

[Penny Mordaunt]

I completely agree. That is why I made that point. What we are doing with this new governance structure places them at the heart of this. They should be at the forefront of our minds, and they also need to be consulted as we are getting the more granular programme together.

Finally, though I was not directly involved in it, I think lessons have been learned from the experience of the Elizabeth Tower and other projects that have been brought in house. We are getting some very good external expertise into these governance structures, and greater oversight, scrutiny and audit is of course to be welcomed. I thank all right hon. and hon. Members for being here today. We are delivering on the will of both Houses of Parliament, and I will do my utmost, working closely with the shadow Leader, to ensure the pragmatism that we all want to see is brought to fruition swiftly.

Question put and agreed to.