Church of England (Miscellaneous Provisions) Measure (HC 341) Church of England Pensions (Application of Capital Funds) Measure (HC 342)

Mark Tami Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd January 2024 General Committees

[Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray.

May I first thank my colleagues for their support this morning? The Second Church Estates Commissioner may be surprised to know that we will not be oppose the measure, but I want to raise a couple of general points. On the pension issue, which he has raised, my right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms) raised some concerns in oral evidence about using capital sales to fund pensions. I know that that applies only up to 1997, but I understand that the sums already expended run to £130 million a year. That amounts to £900 million, which seems quite a lot. Does the Second Church Estates Commissioner have any views on the matter?

On the sale and care of property, the Church of England (Miscellaneous Provisions) Measure refers to churches and land. Does it also cover other Church property such as houses? There is quite a lot of concern about the upkeep of such properties. Anyone who has seen ex-vicarages up for sale knows that most of them look as if no one has touched them since 1950. Does the Measure cover them? What is being done on keeping properties? Even if they are to be sold, their value will be higher if they are looked after properly—let alone the wellbeing of the people who have to live in them.