Welsh Affairs

Mark Tami Excerpts

Thursday 27th February 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Simon Hart)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered Welsh affairs.

Let me welcome everybody to this St David’s Day debate, where we have some veterans and some first-timers. I have to apologise in advance, because I need to leave to entertain some visitors from Wales in No.10 during the course of this debate, so if I slip away, there is a good reason for my doing so. [Interruption.] I apologise to Opposition Members who have not received their invitation quite yet.

This is a fantastic opportunity to champion Wales at a national level, and to highlight the potential and resilience of our constituencies. I wanted to start by discussing resilience, because there has been no greater example of it than the response to the recent flooding events in Wales and further afield. I have visited communities in Carmarthen and Pontypridd, and the Under-Secretary of State for Wales, my hon. Friend the Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies,) has been around and about in the Monmouthshire area, where the Rivers Wye and Usk have caused such devastation. We have spoken to emergency services, agencies, MPs, AMs, local authorities and the Welsh Government on numerous occasions. It is encouraging to see that when things such as this really matter, there is a such a widespread degree of co-operation between those agencies.

[Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)]

rose—

[Simon Hart]

I am not going to take every intervention, but, in the spirit of collaboration, I will give way on this occasion.

[Mark Tami]

The Secretary of State has told us where he has been, but does he know when the Prime Minister has been to Wales or whether he is intending to go there?

[Simon Hart]

I am surprisingly grateful for that intervention, because it allows me to say that the Under-Secretary will wave a letter from the head of his local authority that asked us specifically not to interfere and get under the feet of emergency services by going to these areas before the moment was right. I have spoken to a number of local authorities and they echoed that view, so rather than make this a political stunt, we let the experts get on with what they wanted and needed to get on and do.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Neath (Christina Rees). She is such a powerful voice for Welsh sport and for women’s sport across the United Kingdom.

I will begin by congratulating the new ministerial team at the Wales Office, who have made a really superb start, with energy and a sense of purpose; they are doing a really good job. I also thank all Members on both sides of the House who nominated or supported me to be the Chair-elect of the Welsh Affairs Committee. I am conscious that I have very big boots to fill, given that the previous Chair of that Committee over the last two Parliaments is the current Under-Secretary of State for Wales, my hon. Friend the Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies). It has been made clear to me in no uncertain terms by different colleagues that they expect me to continue his collegiate and constructive style of leading the Committee. I will endeavour to do so while also relishing the prospect of scrutinising the work of the previous Chair and that of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales.

There has been something of a fresh mood in this place since the start of the year, on the back of the general election and other changes. That sentiment is not only felt on the Government Benches; I think that all Members, in different ways, have been feeling the fresh atmosphere around this place over the past couple of months. So my first thought is this: how do we—as 40 Welsh Members of Parliament from different locations and parties, and with different sets of interests and backgrounds—make sure that Wales shares that sense of a fresh start for this Parliament? The Government are absolutely clear that this is going to be a changed Parliament—a Parliament where things get done and get moving—so how do we work together to make sure that Wales can be part of that in a very positive way? There are some major opportunities ahead for Wales which, if we can work together, can be harnessed for the benefit of all of our constituents. There are also challenges ahead, and we should not be shy about discussing those.

Regardless of all our individual perspectives, one thing that I think we can agree on is that the general election that we all went through in November and December did not result in a vote for things to carry on as they had been. It was not a vote for more of the same, and it certainly was not a vote for more of the same in Wales. Those of us who were here in the previous Parliament, particularly in the past couple of years, will look back on the sheer sense of frustration that we were all feeling week by week, with nothing happening and nothing moving—the sense of everything being gummed up and stuck. When we went back to our constituents we would hear and feel the anger from constituents who had also sensed that feeling of frustration. We have now turned that corner, and it is incumbent on all of us to be able to demonstrate to our voters, who have put us all here, that we can get things done in this Parliament. I am not just talking about big issue of Brexit and all the practical issues that follow from the Brexit vote. I am talking about other issues as well—some of the themes that other Members have raised, such as infrastructure and other projects. Perhaps we in this Parliament can do a little better at working together in the years ahead.

I mentioned the work of the Welsh Affairs Committee in the previous Parliament. It did brilliant work, on a cross-party basis, to bring forward practical recommendations that even led to the very good decision of the previous Welsh Secretary to remove tolls on the Severn Bridge. Right on cue, the hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) has walked in. That proposal started off as a recommendation from the Welsh Affairs Committee. It was due in no small part to the efforts and lobbying of members of the Welsh Affairs Committee that that change got through. So working together, I believe that we can get things done for Wales.

Another thought I would like to share is how we, as Members of Parliament, address the issues in this place that affect our constituencies. Those of us who have been around for the bulk of the past 20 years, during the era of devolution, have rather got used to delineating in our heads between devolved issues and non-devolved issues, being careful not to speak about devolved issues and carefully treading with sensitivity on the right side of the devolution boundary. However, the truth—I saw this during the election campaign when talking to voters on the doorstep—is that voters do not care whether an issue is devolved or non-devolved, or whether it is a local authority issue. They just care about the issue and expect us, as someone standing to be a Member of Parliament, to care too, and to have something meaningful to say about it when, if we are fortunate enough to be elected, we come up to this place. We are not trying to blur the devolution boundary or be clever with it; we respect where the different responsibilities lie.

We should not be shy, as Welsh Members of Parliament, about talking about education and healthcare. I am really pleased to see the new hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Beth Winter) here today, because some of her predecessor’s most powerful contributions in recent years were on the state of the NHS in Wales. We remember that very keenly. I think that many of our voters do now understand very clearly the devolution split. When we explain to them the different responsibilities of Cardiff Ministers and Ministers here in Westminster, they nod their heads and show they understand, but they are still, as I say, looking to their Members of Parliament to demonstrate that we care, that we understand, and that we have a view.

Over the past 20 years, during the course of devolution, there has been something of a process of the diminishing importance of Westminster, or an attempt to diminish its importance in the eyes of Welsh voters, and an increasing emphasis on the importance of the Senedd in Cardiff Bay. One of the ways that I interpret the Brexit vote is that it was about voters saying that they value what goes on in Westminster. It is not about saying that the Welsh Assembly is less important, but Brexit is partly about restoring this place to its rightful prominence as the key arena of UK-wide debate and the contesting of different ideas.

As Welsh Members of Parliament, we stand as equals in that. I have made my views known about the—

[Mark Tami]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Stephen Crabb]

I know what the right hon. Gentleman is going to say, so I will give way.

[Mark Tami]

I raised this issue in the Chamber the other day when we had the English-only votes and I was unable to express my view on funding for Countess of Chester Hospital. That hospital was built to serve Deeside and Chester and the area around it. An English Member of Parliament miles from that area is allowed to express a view on it, whereas I am not, even though many people in Alyn and Deeside go to it.

[Stephen Crabb]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and it was exactly the one I was anticipating. He intervened at exactly the right point in my speech where I was about to mention English votes for English laws. I have made my personal views about this known. I strongly believe that Welsh MPs are not second-class. Our role here is as important as everyone else’s and we have a really important job to do. Wales does have a face here. Wales has a voice here, and we are it. It is the particular role of the Secretary of State for Wales to be those things at the Cabinet table, but we have a job to help to strengthen his hand when he goes there to represent Wales. All of us, in the different Select Committees that we sit on, the different all-party parliamentary groups that we belong to and the Question Times that we take part in, are a face and a voice for Wales. There is nothing second-class about our role here, and we should get stuck in as much as possible. Yes, there is a role for party political debate and conflict at times, but there is also a strong role for co-operation and a Team Wales approach from all 40 of us.

I will finish by talking about a practical issue that has already been discussed in part—the shared prosperity fund. I very much hope that the new Welsh Affairs Committee will take an early decision to get its teeth into scrutinising the progress in Government on making decisions about the shared prosperity fund. In the eyes of many colleagues, this is fundamentally a constitutional question of who gets to make the decisions—where the balance of responsibility lies between Cardiff and Westminster over that pot of money. For me, it is primarily an economic issue of how we put that money to good use to benefit the economy. I tried to intervene on my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State on this point. I do not think that he or anybody else questions the fact that previous rounds of EU funding have gone to useful causes and good projects—we see that in all our constituencies where this money has been received—but the fundamental point is that the primary objective of EU structural funds is to close an economic gap between poorer regions and areas and an EU average, and if that economic gap has not been closed, there are some hard questions to be asked about whether the money can be used to better effect to achieve stronger economic growth. That is the opportunity that I want the Welsh Government and the UK Government, working together, to take with regard to the shared prosperity fund. I very much hope that the new Welsh Affairs Committee will get its teeth into that.