Farming on Dartmoor

Debate between Mark Spencer and Stewart Hosie

Tuesday 18th April 2023 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Food, Farming and Fisheries (Mark Spencer)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hosie. I pay tribute to my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Torridge and West Devon (Sir Geoffrey Cox) not only for calling the debate but for the extensive work that he has done behind the scenes, working with landowners, tenants, Natural England and representatives of the moor to pull together his plan. It is worth saying that the Department and I recognise that farming is the lifeblood of our communities. I know at first hand the valuable work that farmers do to keep food on our tables and look after the natural environment for today and for generations to come. It is therefore only right that we take time to duly consider how best we can support farmers—the custodians of our countryside—to be sustainable and productive and have profitable businesses to help manage that moorland and help protect the beautiful landscape that they have created over generations.

Being an upland farmer is pretty challenging. Only last week, I was on Dartmoor with farmers looking at the challenges they face and talking to them about the solutions that we can help to deliver. The Government are listening: that is why we are introducing more than 130 different actions for upland farmers—a huge package of support—through the SFI.

I hear some of the challenges and suggestions put by the Opposition, but there is danger in some of them. The hon. Member for Cambridge (Daniel Zeichner) talks about offering payments for carbon sequestration and carbon management, but there is an inherent danger in that: sheep and tenants are not required to be paid for that action. As a landlord, there would be a benefit in removing those tenants from that land and taking the payment directly. That would have a catastrophic effect on those communities, delivering exactly what the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) suggested: the removal of people—families and tenants—from the moor. We have to progress through this with a little thought and ensure that we get it right for the generations to come.

The purpose of the debate is to get to the detail of how we will move forward, so let me cut to the chase. I pay tribute to my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Torridge and West Devon for the work that he has done on his plan for us to undertake, as soon as possible, an independent evidence review covering the ecological condition of designated sites on Dartmoor. I subscribe to his view. The plan is worthy of support, and I, alongside the Department, will work with him, Natural England and those representatives to undertake that independent review. It should be done rapidly by someone who is recognised as being independent. His “one plus four” model is credible and could move us forward.

At the end of that process, we could end up in a circumstance where reducing the number of livestock on the moor is the scientifically credible option and proven to be the right course of action, but I recognise that we need time for people to adjust to that, form a business plan and work with those in Natural England who want to achieve the same as the farmers who farm on that moor. I will never be convinced that those farmers do not have the environment at the heart of their interests. I met many enthusiastic farmers on Dartmoor who were keen not only to show me their fantastic sheep flocks but to demonstrate the ecology available to them and the amount of species and plants to be enhanced and protected for the future.

I pay tribute to hon. Members for taking part in this debate. I look forward to working with colleagues to find solutions, and thank my right hon. and learned Friend for the work that he has done on the challenge. We look forward to working together to resolve the challenges moving forward.

[Stewart Hosie (in the Chair)]

I call Sir Geoffrey Cox to give a brief wind-up.