Finance Bill

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 6th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

I have a couple of questions about Government new clause 9, which relates specifically to Northern Ireland and the tax treatment of supplementary welfare payments that might be made there, but before I come on to that I want to acknowledge some of the other amendments before us.

The hon. Members for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) and for Wolverhampton South West (Rob Marris) spoke persuasively about amendment 141. The question that arises is: why would the Government and Parliament not do what is proposed in that amendment?

Similarly, on new clause 19, which was tabled by the hon. Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting), it is hugely important that this Parliament is in the business of making sure that there is transparency in our debates. Yesterday, the emphasis was on making sure that there was transparency in the tax affairs of companies. We as a Parliament should insist that we show full transparency in our intent on tax policy and taxation measures.

New clause 19 would take us back to having transparency on the anticipated impact of taxation on families and households of different incomes. There would also be an analysis later in the year of what the impact of particular tax policies and the cumulative impact of various tax policies had been. Surely that is what we should all be in the business of doing when we go through the complicated and confusing exercise of having the various stages of Budget debates here. One thing we all value is knowing what the impact of what we are talking about will be.

I was in this House when a Labour Government adopted a misguided Budget measure in respect of the 10p tax band. A number of Labour Members raised the alarm and said that there would be an adverse impact on people of low income. The Government briefed heavily that that was nonsense and people were marched through the Lobbies. Similarly, we had the recent experience of the proposed changes to working tax credit. People were celebrating the changes and thought they were wonderful, having believed the Chancellor’s spin. Thankfully, not only Opposition Members but Conservative Members raised real and practical concerns about what the impact would be.

Why would it be wrong to follow new clause 19 and ensure that in all our Budget deliberations in future there is an effort to have a properly appraised impact assessment for taxation measures? That would allow us to answer not the question that is usually asked immediately after a Budget, which is what credit particular MPs or Ministers should get for what measures—that is not really what a Budget is about—but that of who gets the benefit in terms of fairness, social equity and the efficiency of economic impact that that induces. For those reasons, I fully support new clause 19.

Similarly, many hon. Members have made the case for new clause 15. Many of them have made the straightforward point that it would be almost perverse for the Government to refuse a new clause that would preclude an increase in VAT on the installation of energy-saving materials. I know the Government will say that it is otiose because they have no intention of increasing it, but over the past few years, we have experienced the Government adopting a series of perverse measures that have confounded the underlying policy commitments in respect of the green economy, renewables and energy efficiency. Given that the Government have introduced so many measures that have had a perverse effect on that sector and an adverse impact on households, it makes sense to have the belt and braces of new clause 15. I cannot see what is wrong with that.

I also note in passing—and at the risk of another voice-activated intervention—that when the right hon. Member for Wokingham (John Redwood) sought to contradict the Financial Secretary’s earlier comments, he cited what he thought was a point of clarity in the Brexit Secretary’s performance yesterday. He is the first Member to have offered me any point of clarity from that performance, which I thought demonstrated the new Secretary of State’s wish to be the first Minister to fulfil the new Government policy on environmental sensitivity, given that he treated us to more than two hours of cosmetics without a single microbead of substance.

The lead measure in this group, new clause 9, refers specifically to Northern Ireland. It deals with the ability there will be for the Northern Ireland Assembly to make additional supplementary payments as mitigation measures to offset some of the impact of the welfare reform measures now being imposed by direct rule from this House, courtesy of the so-called “Fresh Start” agreement. My party expressed our misgivings about and opposition to that overall arrangement, with regard to direct rule powers and the imposition of the effects of welfare reform legislation on Northern Ireland. However, we have long canvassed for mitigation and supplementary payments, and established that case with the Department for Work and Pensions early in 2012.

The one concern people will have about new clause 9 is with the language used. Although in the new clause the Government clearly provide for the Treasury to ensure that

“no liability to income tax arises on supplementary welfare payments of a specified description”

they also allow the Treasury to make regulations to

“impose a charge to income tax under Part 10 of ITEPA 2003 on payments of a specified description”.

The power is there to make sure that the Treasury does not activate a tax liability on supplementary payments that have been discussed and voted through by the Assembly but there also seems to be a power to subject some of those payments to tax.

I wonder why the Treasury feels the need to have that reserve power to impose a tax liability on such payments. We should remember that those payments will be made out of the Executive’s own resources in the devolved budget, because they come out of the departmental expenditure limit for the Assembly. The payments will not come under annually managed expenditure.

Why is that power there? Many people will be concerned that the Treasury will attempt to insinuate itself into any debate among Executive or Assembly parties about what measures they should adopt in mitigation of welfare reform by saying that it may subject some of those measures to a tax clawback. That is clear from subsection (3) of the new clause, and also from looking at subsection (4), which will permit the Treasury’s regulations to

“make…different provision for different cases…incidental or supplementary provision”

or “consequential provision”. That differential raises the question of why we want to reserve the power to impose tax on measures that the Executive or Assembly seek to bring forward and why the Treasury should be able to do so differently on a case-by-case basis, as that will give rise to arguments about inequity and capricious performance. The suspicion is that the Treasury sought to answer the stand-off on welfare reform in the Northern Ireland Assembly. The Assembly would not discharge the karaoke legislation it was being asked to pass in relation to welfare reform. The Treasury intervened by saying, “If you don’t pass it, we will effectively tax your devolved budget to the tune of what we estimate you would be overspending on welfare.” The Treasury insinuated itself into what should have been a debate for the devolved Assembly.

The danger is that now, even in the area of the mitigating powers—the supplementary payments the Assembly will be able to offer, as provided for in the “Fresh Start” agreement—the Treasury could, in the language of the new clause, insinuate itself in the choices and consideration undertaken by the Executive and Assembly. The Treasury’s past form shows that it has not resisted the temptation to insinuate itself. I therefore want assurance from the Financial Secretary that this language will not be there to give the Treasury the right to interfere in the choices that may be made by Ministers and Committees in the Assembly in respect of the supplementary payments they would be allowed to bring forward.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend all hon. Members who have made very valuable contributions, in particular the hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes). He is no longer in his place, but I would like to speak to his presentation on new clause 3. He set out clearly where we stand.

I want to put on record again the consistent support of the Democratic Unionist party for the provision of the transferable allowance for married couples. I remember the hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) and I taking some verbal attacks in this Chamber—mostly from the Opposition Benches, I have to say—for our stance on this issue, but we persevered and the Government persevered. I thank the Government for bringing in the provision in their previous term. I had hoped there would have been some indication that the Government could support new clause 3. I understand, after talking to the hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate, that he will not press it to a Division. If that is the case, we have to abide by that.

The sadness for me is that the Government have, until today, chosen to invest the lion’s share of their resources in their other income tax policy of raising the personal allowance. It is undoubtedly true that that policy helps poorer families, but it is very badly targeted. If I may say so in a respectful way, it seems to be targeted at those who can well afford it, as against those who cannot. I have to put on record that I have some concerns about that. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has demonstrated that 75% of the benefit—and now, as the allowance is being raised from £10,000 to £12,500, even more than 75% of the benefit—goes to those in the top half of the income distribution. That is what the available statistics and charts indicate and I have to say they are very stark. They indicate an imbalance in the system that, as the hon. Gentleman clearly stated, is a concern.

Social Security (Equality)

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 26th April 2016 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to be called to speak in this debate, Mr Hollobone. First, I congratulate the hon. Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson) on securing the debate. In Northern Ireland, we are shortly to come into the PIP system, and I will make some comments about that. It is always a pleasure to see the Minister and the shadow Minister in their places. I look forward to their comments.

When the new Secretary of State for Work and Pensions took over, he said that he wanted

“to start a new conversation with disabled people, their representatives”—

that is us in this room, councillors, Assembly Members, Members of the Scottish Parliament and so on—as well with healthcare professionals, who are the people who know best, and employers, in order to shape future policy. He also wanted

“to take time to reflect on how best we support and help transform people’s lives.”—[Official Report, 21 March 2016; Vol. 607, c. 1269.]

With that in mind, the conversation started a long time ago. The Minister knows the respect I have for him and I know he is interested in this matter, and I know that we will have a full and detailed response to our concerns. I honestly believe that his concerns are our concerns too.

Most of my comments will relate to my knowledge of the system and its shortcomings. It is unfortunate that in debates such as this we sometimes have to say what is wrong with the system, but the fact is that as elected representatives, people do not necessarily come to our advice centres and say, “You’ve done a great job. Have a nice day. How’s the football?” They come in to make their complaint. We have to put serious complaints to the Minister and make him aware of what is happening.

One concern that I have about the work capability assessment for ESA—I do not know how this happens—is that some of my constituents have to fill in ESA forms up to three times a year. My goodness me, how does the Department expect someone’s health to deteriorate or get better within four months? It is illogical. The assessment has to happen between three and six months before, so why does that happen? I stand to be corrected, but I am not aware of anyone who was receiving incapacity benefit in my constituency who was not turned down automatically when they were moved to ESA. I see that happening all the time. After being turned down automatically, they go to appeal and win it. There almost seems to be a presumption that individuals should not have been getting incapacity benefit and they certainly should not get ESA. I have to express that concern.

Another thing that comes to mind is the number of claimants with serious health conditions or disabilities who are found fit for work. I have one staff member who works full time on benefits cases. The role of the advice centre in my office has changed—its role was once about housing and planning, but now benefits are right up there next to those issues. I am sure that situation is replicated in the office of every Member. One problem is the number of people who are found fit for work or placed in the wrong ESA group due to deficiencies in the descriptors used or the assessment process. How can we do better on that?

The focus on returning to work within a relatively short period of time is not appropriate for many claimants. In England, 36% of all fit for work decisions in a given period were appealed against, and 52% of those appeals were won. We cannot ignore that fact. I make these points not to be aggressive or adversarial; I am trying to raise issues in a constructive fashion. There are deficiencies in the process, and other Members will no doubt speak about them.

As the Minister knows, this matter is devolved to Northern Ireland. The Northern Ireland Assembly has set aside £500 million for a further series of supplementary payments to carers, people suffering from ill health and families on low incomes. We have recognised that a number of issues have to be addressed. Will the Minister give his thoughts on that? Some 50,000 people in Northern Ireland receive the mobility component of the disability living allowance, and they are worried about the impact of PIP. Honestly, I sometimes wonder whether anyone sees the emotional effect that such things have on people. If they did, they would say, “The system needs to be changed.”

DLA will end in Northern Ireland on 20 June, and PIP will take over. The same contractor that looked after the system on the UK mainland will be taking over in Northern Ireland. I say this very respectfully, but we seek an assurance that the contractor is fit for purpose, fit to do the job in Northern Ireland and fit to do the job better. How will that company be monitored?

Families that include disabled people are more likely to be in receipt of state benefits than families with no disabled people. That fact should be recorded. The Government have announced further welfare measures that will affect disabled people, including a four-year freeze on most working-age benefits, changes to tax credits and universal credit and the abolition of the work-related activity component for new ESA claims from 2017. I am trying to be constructive, but can we have some assurance for those who are disabled? They are very worried about what will happen.

In Northern Ireland, more than 200,000 people receive disability living allowance. In a population of 1.8 million, that means that one in every nine people are receiving DLA. That compares to a figure of one in 20 on the UK mainland.

[Mark Durkan]

I know that the hon. Gentleman is entirely sincere in registering his concerns, but they are contradicted by the fact that his party voted in the Assembly for a legislative consent motion that endorsed all the clauses of the Welfare Reform and Work Act 2016 as originally tabled. He and his colleagues also voted down amendments to the Northern Ireland (Welfare Reform) Bill when we proposed them in the Chamber. Those amendments would have addressed exactly these issues.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention—at least, I think I thank him. We know how the system works. We have made some changes to the system in Northern Ireland and made some concessions. If we want to change it more, we have to pay for it. I am sure that he can tell us where the money would come from. We need to make those decisions as well, and in Northern Ireland, those decisions are made by those in government who are responsible. They must make decisions that do not run us into debt or extra problems. We agreed to that legislation because we cannot change everything that comes across from Westminster. The things we can change we do change—I will not comment on them now.

Kevin Doherty, the chief executive of Disability Action, has said that the growing number of people in receipt of DLA should be a sign to the Government that better services are needed. He stated:

“Disability Action would strongly recommend that the Government take heed of the rise in DLA recipients and continue to implement adequate and sustainable services that enhance the lives of disabled people.”

The number of people in receipt of DLA—or PIP, as it will be from 20 June—will continue to rise, and the number is greater in Northern Ireland than anywhere else in the United Kingdom. That cannot be ignored.

Some people have argued that people take advantage of the system, but from my experience, I can confirm that all those who come to my office needing help with DLA forms are genuine and deserving individuals, and DLA and PIP are intended for those people. I am honestly not aware of anyone who has come to my office who did not deserve support, and my staff work very hard to ensure that those who need it get it. I am ever mindful that we are nobody’s judge in this world. We are here to help anyone who comes to our offices, and we do that.

It is important to say that the Northern Ireland Assembly has set aside money out of its block grant, money that we all agreed to—or at least the parties with responsible minds in Government agreed to it—so that we could look after those hit by the bedroom tax or the spare room subsidy, which is completely discriminatory towards those most genuinely in need. Where did that money come from? The direct budget. We set that money aside because we are a responsible Government, which is why, looking forward to the elections on 5 May, the Democratic Unionist party can honestly say, with no fear of contradiction, that we are building a better future for everyone in Northern Ireland. We are doing that through responsible governance, paying our way and looking after the vulnerable, those on low incomes and in poverty, and the disabled. We are doing our best to ensure that they are looked after. I am sure that, when they respond, the Minister and shadow Minister will accept those points.

Dementia and Alzheimer’s Disease

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 12th April 2016 Westminster Hall

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

I commend the hon. Gentleman for securing the debate. On Northern Ireland, he may be aware that the Joseph Rowntree Foundation supports the Dementia without Walls programme, and one place in which it has done something is in a city with walls—the Derry Engaging and Empowering Dementia project has included: work at the level of schools and everywhere to ensure that everyone is more aware of dementia; and Derry having the first dementia-friendly pantomime in Ireland last December, in the Millennium Forum.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention and for giving an example of some of the good things happening throughout the whole country.

I tabled an early-day motion some time ago to highlight what can happen in people’s homes, and I suggested issues such as smoking, drinking, diet, excessive weight, healthy weight and social interaction, which is so important. Many may enjoy a tipple or an alcoholic beverage, but for too long alcohol has been overlooked as a cause of dementia. The hon. Member for Beckenham asked what some of the causes are, and that is one of them. No one is saying to people to go cold turkey or to hang up their dancing shoes, but the facts are there and they need to be heard.

We have alcohol-related dementia, which is formally attributed to alcoholism, and conclusive evidence now shows that heavy drinking over a long period increases the chance not only of dementia in the long term but of early onset dementia. To illustrate that, Alcohol Concern has provided comparative data showing that the brains of men who drank more than four units of alcohol a day—approximately two or three drinks a day—over 10 years age at a higher rate than those of light or non-alcohol drinkers. The brains of men who regularly drank alcohol appeared between 1.5 and 5.7 years older than their healthier counterparts. Those are just some of the things we have got to address.

One other thing we have done in Northern Ireland is provide funding for dementia-specific nurses, new studies into treating dementia—seven studies are taking place in Northern Ireland—and we have clinical leads for research. That is what we need to do. I thank the Minister, the shadow Minister and right hon. and hon. Members for coming to participate in the debate. I hope that my comments and the interventions have helped to focus attention and that we can do a lot more in advancing the race against dementia and Alzheimer’s, supporting the carers better and furthering awareness of the potential causes.

Welfare Benefit Changes

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 14th October 2015 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that. Unfortunately, that is probably the norm in my constituency as well. We are not seeing anything different anywhere else in the rest of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

We cannot be completely in shock about the cuts, given that such benefits make up nearly 40% of welfare spending, just shy of £30 billion. To put that into perspective, that is a lot more than the £2.5 billion that the Government spend on jobseeker’s allowance. It has been estimated that the cuts will save the country £5.37 billion a year by 2019. Given the huge hole in the budget we need to try to fill, that will certainly be a start, but I must ask the Minister: are we punishing hard workers on low wages to do that? I fear that we are.

The Government and we as a nation pride ourselves on helping those who help themselves, but we must bear in mind the reality for many: although they work extremely hard, they simply do not earn enough to make ends meet. That is the sad reality and this vulnerable group in society will be hit extremely hard—unbearably hard, in many cases.

According to the Institute for Fiscal Studies, 3 million families will be £1,000 a year worse off following the new cuts. Those are the figures, so it is hard to equate that with saying, “Actually, things are going to be better,” when all those who know tell us that clearly they will not. It has been claimed that families will be £20 a week better off because of the rise in the minimum wage and the cut in income tax. However, the IFS says it is “arithmetically impossible” for families not to be hit by the cuts. The Prime Minister has already conceded that different families will be affected in different ways. Unfortunately, it seems that, for the majority, the figures will be working against them.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The hon. Gentleman has referred several times to the Institute for Fiscal Studies and its observations on the overall impact. It has not given a regionalised profile of the impact, but it would do so if asked. My party has proposed at the Stormont House talks for it to be asked to provide exactly those projections on the situation in Northern Ireland. Given that he is so committed to quoting the IFS, will he encourage his party leadership for once to support that request, so that, when we discuss welfare reform, we can know what we are talking about? It is not enough for him to say that he opposes welfare reform here when his party colleagues vote for it in the Assembly on the basis that “a big boy made me do it.”

Finance Bill

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 21st July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan]

Yes, I certainly have no problem with that, and I welcome the breadth of opposition. I also welcome the depth of opposition I heard from some hon. Members who, because of their party’s Whips situation, did not vote but whom I know care passionately about a number of issues and have served notice that they will vote in the amendment stages. I hope, therefore, that we can go further in this Bill and yesterday’s Bill to build on that.

However, let us be clear: this Bill purports to cover more than just the issues that we discussed yesterday. Hon. Members have referred to the questions around corporation tax, and of course the Government have served notice that they are going to reduce it. I am someone who has supported the measures to give Northern Ireland the devolved capacity to vary the rate of corporation tax, and I have no issue or argument against that. Indeed, I predicted that one of the reasons why the Conservatives were so keen to devolve corporation tax was that they wanted to create an excuse or cover to do so in England and Wales as well.

However, although that can be welcome in Northern Ireland at one level, because it means that the cost of any variation in corporation tax for us will be less in time, let us be clear that, contrary to what the hon. Member for East Antrim said yesterday, it will not be parties such as mine holding these issues up; it will be the tactics and policies of the Government, who are trying to create a budgetary arm-lock on the devolved Executive. They are basically saying, “Unless you get your Assembly to pass the legislation that we want in respect of welfare reform, we are going to create budget stress”—which in turn will lead to a budget crisis, which in turn will become a political crisis—“as the price of your failure to do so.”

When we are locked in that budget crisis—which will be contrived and the result of the Government bullying us on welfare reform—they will then say, “You don’t have a balanced and sustainable budget; therefore, you’re not getting your corporation tax powers.” Just as the Government said they would not introduce the corporation tax Bill until they were satisfied with what it looked like the Assembly was going to do on welfare reform, so they have built in a clause for Northern Ireland in the Bill that says that, come 2017, they will not switch on the power unless they are satisfied that there is a balanced and sustainable budget.

When it comes to the outstanding measures in the Scotland Bill, I hope that hon. Members present in the Chamber will be mindful of the possible need for a clause to prevent the Treasury from adopting any such tactic on the dual exercise of welfare powers between Westminster and the Scottish Parliament, because the “twilight zone” difficulty that Northern Ireland has got into offers a very salient warning.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I have the utmost respect for the hon. Gentleman, and he knows that, but the real reason why we have an impasse in Northern Ireland is the unfortunate delay from the SDLP in supporting the Stormont House agreement, which everyone signed up to. With that comes the delay in the corporation tax benefits for Northern Ireland. Surely it is time now for his party to honestly say, “Let’s support the Stormont House agreement, let’s get corporation tax back and let’s help everyone across the whole of the political spectrum in Northern Ireland.”

[Mark Durkan]

I would offer the hon. Gentleman the mutual observation of respect, but would also say, first, that we are not holding anything up. The legislation has already been passed. It provides for the switch-on of the powers in 2017. It is the Treasury that is imposing the condition, and let us remember that it is locked on to that condition in a way that is completely wrong and unwarranted. It is basically saying, “Yes, you have the nominal legislative power over welfare reform, but unless you do it exactly to our taste, as karaoke legislation, then we are going to interfere with your budget and claw back from the Barnett formula.” That is wrong. The Treasury has other ways of trying to control these things. If this is about welfare spending, then the Treasury already has a welfare cap that allows it to police welfare spending—literally—without creating budget stress within the Executive and between parties, so there is a different course that can be followed on all this.

As for some of the other provisions, I have no doubt that the Government will go further in their cuts to corporation tax. I know that they are saying that they want to get to 18% by 2020, but the Chancellor said in the second year of the last Parliament that there would be no more corporation tax cuts in that Parliament and of course there were. He is exactly lining up to do that again.

Let me touch on some of the other issues. The hon. Member for East Antrim rightly mentioned the road fund, in that the Chancellor said in his statement that the Government would have to work out exactly what would happen with the equivalent moneys in Northern Ireland—the money that would be raised in vehicle duties. However, I hope it is not the case that only the moneys raised directly in vehicle duties in Northern Ireland would be hypothecated for those purposes. Given the nature of our economy and the fact that many of the key commercial vehicles on our roads are not registered in Northern Ireland—many of those servicing many of our companies, not least in the retail sector, come from outside the region—and also, obviously, given our higher rurality, we have high relative overheads on roads, so we would need something more than that.

I asked the Financial Secretary earlier to clarify the position on banking because he seemed to be saying that the bank levy had largely served its purpose: the Government had to introduce it, but it was very much of its time, and now we needed to move on to something different. Let us recognise that although clause 18 rightly says that, in future, banks will not receive tax relief on expenses for compensation payments made to customers in respect of certain defined issues, until now the banks have been able to claim that tax relief. There is a catalogue of huge liabilities that they face because of their own wrongdoing, but they were able to absorb all that along with the bank levy, so it is not as though the bank levy was a serious burden to them.

Of course, the Government have responded to pressure from the likes of HSBC and StanChart, who have been saying that they will move if something is not done about the bank levy. So the Government have moved on the bank levy, but they are trying to tell the rest of us that that will be more than compensated for by the surcharge on corporation tax. If they reduce corporation tax by much more than they are currently advertising, that surcharge will not amount to as much. Given how they have rolled over on the bank levy, it is not very hard to canvass the suspicion that they will equally ameliorate the intended surcharge in response to the same threat.

On renewables, I do not intend to go on at anything like the same length or in the same colour as the hon. Member for East Antrim, but I want to make it clear that there is a different view from Northern Ireland. We see the Chancellor’s measures as directly interfering in our capacity to have a greener economy and to grow firms and businesses. It is a key target of the single electricity market in Ireland, north and south, to achieve over 40% supply from renewables. It is a key element in the grid investment that is needed. It is also a key aspect of the market, both north and south, to seek to export in terms of renewables. The Chancellor’s measures therefore fundamentally interfere in one of the growth sectors in Northern Ireland. It is a growth sector not only in terms of generation but in terms of renewable technologies, and the investment and export that goes with those. We take a fundamentally different view from that of the hon. Member for East Antrim. Let me be very clear: on issues such as contracts for difference, we have different politics, different starting points and different end points.

I agree with the hon. Gentleman on the age restriction on the national living wage; the fact that it does not apply to under-25s is grossly wrong. The whole concept of the national living wage as put forward by the Chancellor is not only an attempt to slightly enhance or rebadge the minimum wage; it is a blatant attempt to puncture the living wage, and to change its agenda and what is intended by it. That comes alongside other measures that we have discussed, such as changes to tax credits, which will directly take over £1,200 a year—over £100 a month—from people who are in work.

We are told that nobody who has more than two children at the moment will lose out as a result of the changes to the limits on child benefit; that will come later. If we are really to believe what Conservative Members were telling us earlier—that the number of children that people are having is an economic choice to do with the availability of tax credits and the eligibility for benefits—we need to hear from relevant Ministers how they will cope with the baby boom that we will have before April 2017, as people ensure that children are born in time to qualify for benefits. There will be either a race for benefits or a race for births, or both, if we believe half of what we heard across the way yesterday.

The new banking measures replace the big measures that were introduced by the Prime Minister and the Chancellor during the last Parliament, otherwise known as Project Merlin. A fairly effete bank levy was intended to sort out the banks and put manners on them. Now we have a new Project Merlin: the Chancellor seems to have decided to take key social policies from Merlin Entertainments. A family means two adults and two children, and no more. There is no deal for anyone who goes beyond that.

The Hague Abduction Convention

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 10th March 2015 Westminster Hall

[Mark Durkan]

As I was saying before the Division, I was prompted to introduce the debate by a number of issues and observations that have arisen from cases that have been shared with me by Foyle Women’s Aid—not all relate directly to people in my constituency, but all those involved have been using the support of Foyle Women’s Aid—and from some other cases.

I stress that at no point will I be questioning specific decisions in specific cases, nor will I be naming any of the people involved in the cases. That is partly because of the sensitivity of a current case, which I suppose has most prompted me to raise the issue. Just this week, a woman has had to return to Australia with her child, who was born in my constituency, on the basis of decisions that have been made following a case taken under The Hague convention.

I stress that I am not trying to involve the Minister in anything that would rightfully be within the purview of the devolved Department of Justice in Northern Ireland. Perhaps more importantly, I assure Ministers not just here, but in Northern Ireland, that in no way am I trying to second-guess any decision by any judge of the Northern Ireland courts. I want to be very clear that the Lord Chief Justice should have no concern with any of the aspects of the debate that I will raise here today. I do not believe that Members should use any forum of the House to try to second-guess or overturn decisions of judges or the courts.

Rather, the issues I want to raise today are about whether we as legislators need to give more consideration to The Hague convention as it stands, whether the 1985 Act is sufficient and whether additional light needs to be shed on the issue, given all the experience and understanding we now have in relation to the changes to family life and our understanding of it. There is also greater internationalisation of life now and far more complicated trans-jurisdictional arrangements are in place. Also, a more acute understanding has arisen as to the limited regard that different aspects of the law have had for key principles such as the best interests of the child. There is also the question whether the law is duly responsive to any evidence or allegations that arise about conditions of abuse that might have affected a child or that might affect a partner.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The hon. Gentleman has raised an important issue. A parent whose child has been abducted will be aware that their access to legal aid is restricted. Given the vulnerability of all the parties involved, does he agree that it is vital to ensure that they all have the assurance that they will be represented fairly?

[Mark Durkan]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising that point. Legal aid is a key issue for anyone involved at either end of cases such as these, whether they want to bring a case to have their child restored to their custody or they find themselves accused and become a defendant in such a case. The question of legal aid, and the restrictions on it, is particularly acute. Although Ministers have, perhaps understandably, changed position on some elements of legal aid because of more specious cases or cases in which people were testing any sort of claim culture connected to accidents, the fact is that, for a parent, a case about their child is a matter not of calculated choice, but of the emotional imperatives that come with being a parent.

It is important that people should have as much recourse to legal aid as possible, and the decisions around legal aid should be duly sensitised to such situations. Certainly, in a recent case that I know of, a woman has found herself facing a case of child abduction, and on being told to take a child who was born in Northern Ireland back to Australia she found herself in precisely the position whereby she was weakened, so I know this can come on either side of such cases. I am sure that the Minister would be sensitive in all such situations, although we are talking in this case not particularly about one side or another, but about the balance of justice, which goes to the heart of the legal aid questions.

I want to return to the points that particularly concern me, which arise from decisions made recently. I am not concerned because the court made those decisions, but a question arises for legislators and for the Government as the transposing signatory to The Hague convention as to whether we are perhaps leaving courts in a position where they have to take decisions on fairly narrow grounds in fairly shady light, sometimes having to disregard evidence that people try to bring forward in relation to either abuse against them that they allege took place at the hands of the other parent or where they say they have evidence of ill treatment or questionable treatment by the other parent of the child.

It seems that the courts tend to set a very high threshold in relation to consideration of any such evidence, and also then say that it would not be for them to determine anyway, but would be for the court in another jurisdiction if the child was to be returned to that other jurisdiction. It seems that in child abduction cases the courts and the legal profession find themselves almost adopting a standard akin to the rules of the road. For instance, in car accident cases it is automatically presumed that if a person has driven into the back of another car, the liability lies with that person. It does not matter about any other circumstances or conditions; the court does not want to know. It is straightforward.

I hear such a message from people who have handled a number of cases, and the woman who has this week had to return to Australia felt that she was in such a situation. The evidence that she had been raising and pursuing was essentially set aside. That is not because the court did not want to know or because judges wanted to be insensitive to that, but that is not how the law stands and it is not how the law tests such things. Essentially, for the court, the real issue was to decide where the jurisdiction on the matter should rest, and the court has basically said that any of the other issues would be for a court in Australia to decide. That point does not stand alone.

The mother obviously appealed the decision that was made in respect of her and her two and a half-year-old child, but she had to give undertakings. On losing the appeal, she had to sign the following:

“The Appellant agrees not to institute, encourage or pursue any criminal proceedings whether in Northern Ireland or Australia, against the Respondent in respect of any of the allegations made against the Respondent in the course of the Hague Convention proceedings.”

Here we have The Hague convention being operated and brokered via the courts on the basis that, even if there is evidence that could give rise to possible criminal proceedings, as part of the discharge of a case under The Hague convention such evidence is not to be pursued.

As a legislator, I believe that that goes against the grain and the spirit of much of what we have heard from the Government in recent times about more responsive and alert reactions to evidence that arises in different family circumstances.

In this particular case, issues did arise around whether the child was exposed to risk. I do not want to go into any of the particulars of that, but the determination seemed to be that that was not a matter on which the courts would or could hear anything. Again, to my mind, that is inconsistent with the very clear standards that we hear ringing right across all the political institutions in recent times: in relation to the position of children, every effort will be made to ensure that the best interests of the child are fully considered and addressed.

In relation to how such cases are addressed, it seems to be very hard for anyone to find out whether anybody has the role of advocating the best interests of the child. It is not clear that the court is in a position to hear or take the evidence. Perhaps we need to apply some of the yardsticks developed under the Modern Slavery Bill, which states that in some instances there will be a child advocacy service whose responsibilities will be particularly to speak to and address everything on the basis of the best interests of the child. Perhaps that should be applied here.

I hope that the Minister and his Department, and his colleagues in other Departments, because I know this cuts across various Departments, will take the spirit of what has been said on so many other fronts and make sure that it also informs how we go forward with The Hague convention, in terms of how we address it as legislators, how the Government address their role as a signatory and how they take forward their discussion with other Governments in modernising The Hague convention and the various memorandums of understanding that go with that, so that none of what we are saying in relation to child abuse and domestic violence—violence against women or anything else—runs out when it comes to the very important and vexed issue of The Hague convention.

Electoral Registration

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 4th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan]

The hon. Gentleman will recognise that one reason the registration effort in schools has been so successful is precisely that the electoral ID card is a strong incentive. It is not necessarily that pupils are overwhelmingly committed to voting for our party!

[Jim Shannon]

I would not necessarily go with that opinion, because when the pupils congregate for the cards and we help them to go and get them, I think we will gain from that. I am ever the optimist, as you know, Mr Speaker, and I am sometimes referred to as a “glass half full” person. I am conscious of the time, so I will continue.

It is important to address fraud. There have been examples in west Belfast in the past where up to half a dozen people were living in blocked up houses. I do not know how they got in there. If one had four legs, it was easy to get in, but not so easy for those with two legs. That is all I can say. It is acknowledged that we are likely to have a higher volume of voters in the general election—the contest to watch—so for that reason we need accessibility along with accurate data.

In 2012, Northern Ireland had an accuracy of 78% in its electoral registers. That clearly showed what we could do. The electorate of Northern Ireland grew by 9.8% between 2007 and 2012, in comparison with only 2.8% for United Kingdom and the rest of the mainland. Big steps were taken; we moved forward very quickly.

It is now a given that we must talk about technology in all strategies for engaging with and reaching the public. The online system is one thing we have introduced and it has been successful, although I think we could do more with it. Over 90% of responders gave positive feedback, so there have been issues that we have been able to deal with.

The system of voter registration in Northern Ireland for those at further education colleges has been good. There needs to be leafleting and marketing in our universities and colleges and our local businesses, and at grass-roots campaigning levels. Visuals and sign-up drives are also very important.

I urge Ministers to bear it in mind that, in the light of the upcoming elections and the fact that the nation’s eyes will be on how we run the votes, we should be ready for scrutiny and accountability.

Personal Independence Payments

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 21st January 2015 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon]

My hon. Friend’s intervention clearly illustrates the issue for us in Northern Ireland. I have a member of staff in my constituency office who now does nothing else but deal with benefit issues and issues with the DLA; I spoke to her this morning to talk over some of the issues. We have a higher proportion of claimants in my constituency and a higher proportion of contact with them. The Government have offered Members’ staff the opportunity to have training on the new system, which my staff took up, and I hope that the information that they have gleaned from the training classes here in London will be sufficient to enable the change to be managed more easily in my constituency. That is one of the really good things that the Government have done.

PIP retains key features of DLA, which is important for a smooth transition. It is not means-tested and is non-taxable and non-contributory. It is intended to provide financial support for disabled people who face the greatest challenges in remaining independent—it is important to help those people hold on to some of their independence. It is payable to people both in and out of work and has two components—daily living and mobility—with different levels of award for each based on the assessed level of need.

The benefit has been changed and improved, however, in the sense that it encourages a move to a more transparent and objective assessment of need, with assessments by health professionals employed by contracted providers. I know that there is a lot to be learned from the past two years here on the mainland, but the PIP system itself is something that most of us can welcome, because on paper it has the potential to make lives better and be better at helping people. However, there have been recurring problems and I want to make some observations about what has happened.

The assessment places a stronger emphasis on the functional impact of claimants’ underlying disabling and medical conditions, not on the conditions themselves. That is vital, because people are affected by conditions in different ways. We see that in my office every week. What one person may need might not be needed by another person, so that is one element that I was happy to see changed; it is one of the new system’s pluses, at least on paper. A points-based system to assess eligibility for awards will also be included, with more regular reviews of eligibility for those receiving awards. Finally, there is greater focus on the needs of claimants with mental health conditions.

Over my last four and a half years as a Member of Parliament, I have become more aware of the needs of people with mental health issues. I do not know what it is about society, or whether it is a combination of things, but more people today have mental health conditions, and we need a system that understands the issue. In Northern Ireland, we had a conflict over 30 years, which may have contributed to mental health problems, and we have concerns about that.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The hon. Gentleman will probably recognise that those of us who have concerns about the implementation of welfare reform in Northern Ireland have raised the particular needs of victims of the troubles, and the issue was raised as part of the Stormont House agreement. They were given DLA awards—perhaps for life—because of their condition, and there was concern about the difficulties they would face in being subjected to reassessment and in perhaps having to retell their story, whether the trauma they carried was physical or mental. We have been assured that we can get extra consideration on that.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that valuable intervention—he is right to raise the conflict over 30 years and its repercussions. Those who have lived with trauma have filled in the forms and been given a definite award, but they have then had to go through it all again. It is important that those points are addressed, and it seems, from the Stormont House agreement and the discussions with the Secretary of State and other Ministers, that they are.

As I mentioned in last November’s debate about PIP, the delays and backlogs are worrying. It is unsurprising, therefore, that the independent review expressed the same concerns. The hon. Members for Erith and Thamesmead, for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford) and for South Shields (Mrs Lewell-Buck) have mentioned the delays, and it is important that they are addressed. As PIP is rolled out, serious delays have occurred, which means that some of the most vulnerable have been left without the help they need for too long. For example, of the 220,300 disabled people who applied for PIP from 8 April 2013 to 31 December 2013, only 34,200 received news of their claim by February 2014. That delay is absolutely unacceptable.

Obviously, that was not good enough, so the review suggested having better and more concise communication. The format of decision letters was claimed to be unclear, confusing and of variable quality. It has been suggested that the letters begin with a clear statement of the decision, followed by the award, payment details, a simpler explanation for the reasons and the next steps. I would definitely support that in my constituency, as we role out PIPs in the next month or so.

A large number of claimants have difficulty understanding reply letters. On more than one occasion, my office has had to relay to them what has been written to help them. It is good that my staff have the understanding to do that, but it would be better if the letters used words that people could understand.

I mentioned in our last debate—this has also been touched on today—my concern over the reliability criteria, which measure whether activities can be undertaken safely, to an acceptable standard and repeatedly. I was pleased that the review recognised that conditions and their impact can often fluctuate over time—people can have changing conditions. Although the review saw examples of good practice, respondents expressed concern over whether the criteria were being applied appropriately. There is an issue about how people are assessed and how measures are put in place.

In the same way that a condition affects different people in different ways, people’s ability to carry out particular activities can vary. It is therefore difficult to apply the reliability criteria over a set period. However, regular reviews might allow the same tests to be carried out each time, which would help to monitor whether someone had remained the same, deteriorated or, indeed, improved. That, in turn, would mean that fairer assessments and payments could be given than under the system. Provided that the right safeguards are in place, that could be a good idea; if it is done in the right way, it could bring benefits.

The review set out short-term, medium-term and long-term solutions to make PIPs work better. Those include short-term actions to address delays and backlogs before the start of managed reassessment; medium-term actions to improve both evaluation of the accuracy and consistency of award outcomes and the collection of further evidence; and longer-term actions to redesign the PIP delivery model in terms of claimant experience and business effectiveness. In his response, perhaps the Minister can tell us whether changes to make the system better can still be implemented even at this late stage.

Ultimately, I am pleased the review has concluded and can now address some of the main issues with the new PIP model. PIP has the potential to improve on DLA, but it needs to be fairer and more objective, and it must meet the needs of people more than has been the case. I welcome the findings of the review, which will mould a new system that can work better. I hope that its suggestions will be taken on board.

Modern Slavery Bill

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 8th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

In common with the hon. Member for Central Devon (Mel Stride), I welcome the debate and commend the Government for allowing the draft Bill to be tested through pre-legislative scrutiny. Evidence was received from many groups who have direct experience of, and insight into, issues of modern slavery, not just through being witnesses to the crimes and their effects, but through providing protection and support for victims.

I commend the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) and all who were involved in the Joint Committee for their work in proofing the Bill at its pre-legislative stage. I wish, however, that their efforts had received a more positive reflection from the Government than is suggested by the Bill before us today. The Joint Committee did very good work, highlighting the need for greater clarity about the offences. It provided a good service, helping to tidy up and improve the complicated, sometimes turgid language of the Bill, drawing from the existing legislation that it seeks to consolidate, by providing a clearer suite of offences. Each specific offence must be clear and the different facets of the overall crime and evil with which we are trying to deal should be made clearer. That would lead to more competent and more cogent legislation in respect of the message it communicates and the problems it seeks to recognise and address.

I am not convinced by the Government’s arguments that it is only necessary to have a consolidation of existing legislation with a few minor add-ons, as identified by the hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart), rather than a more cogent programme as suggested by the Joint Committee. We also need to ask on Second Reading whether the Bill does enough to address the causes of the problem, or enough to protect the victims? Does it really justify the claim, which has been made, of its being world-leading legislation? We have heard from some hon. Members that in some major respects the Bill simply catches up with what is happening elsewhere, while in other respects it falls far short of that. It does not match the true working standards of legislation in other countries or indeed the structures and systems in place in other countries for achieving the role envisaged in the Bill for the anti-slavery commissioner.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The hon. Gentleman will, like me, be aware of other legislation pursued and brought forward in the Northern Ireland Assembly. I believe a Second Reading has taken place and that a Bill is before the Assembly for ratification. Does the hon. Gentleman feel that the Government should also take note of the Northern Ireland legislation, which covers trafficking and the sale of women for sex? Does he feel that that should be part of what the Government are considering today?

[Mark Durkan]

I think that that Bill has been subject to a number of different viewpoints in the Assembly, particularly in respect of the workability of its detail. Indeed, many of the campaigning organisations that have highlighted the shortcomings of the Modern Slavery Bill have also indicated their reservations about some of the language in the Assembly Bill, which they want to see improved, modified or qualified. Now that there are moves to legislate in a number of these areas, we want to make sure that the legislation is as competent and effective as possible.

Some of the provisions of this Bill are clearly UK-wide—for example, both the slavery and trafficking prevention orders and the slavery and trafficking risk orders are UK-wide, yet many other functions apply to England and Wales, making it an England and Wales Bill. The orders are rightly UK-wide and they can even have international or extra-territorial effects.

There is a case for saying that we need more joined-up legislation in this area, and I know that the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland, for instance, has already engaged in a consultation exercise and seems ready to take forward legislation that has a similar remit to this Bill. I imagine, however, that if a Bill in this form went before the Northern Ireland Assembly, it might be subject to amendments and could be successfully amended in some of the respects raised by hon. Members here that the Government are resisting. We could reach the odd situation whereby subsequent legislation in Northern Ireland that appears to mirror this Bill could be more than just a karaoke Bill, along the lines that we are used to in the Assembly whereby a Bill is simply replicated. The Assembly Bill could go further and embrace some of the suggested amendments that the Government have resisted here.

Rare Diseases

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 17th December 2013 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon]

I agree entirely with my right hon. Friend. We have experience of those deficiencies in the health service—we are not immune from them in Northern Ireland. In this House, I always try to extol the health service in Northern Ireland and the good things that we are doing, but there are times when we fall down, and times when we have to improve. My right hon. Friend is absolutely right that there are things that we would like to see done better, and we endeavour to make sure that happens. We have a devolved Administration and a Health Minister in Northern Ireland, so we have an opportunity to make that happen. We have seen lots of changes for the better in the health service in Northern Ireland.

Patients’ uncertainty about who to contact can mean that they do not receive the information and support that they need or that they have to tell their story over and over. I have often told the story of the gentleman I mentioned, and other people’s stories as well, but I still have not got the answers that are needed. My goodness, but it is frustrating for the people concerned, and it is also frustrating for me, as an elected representative. People can feel lost in the health care system.

It has been outlined to me that any strategy must include the development of a generic care pathway to facilitate the delivery of best practice to all rare disease patients, not just those who have a specific service specification; an appropriate care plan for all patients with a rare disease; clearly stated principles about the standards of care that patients with a rare disease can expect, including patients with no diagnosis; and the development of seamless pathways for transition, from childhood to adolescence and on to adulthood and older age. How does the Minister feel we can put such a strategy into place?

We must ensure that there is evidence-based diagnosis and treatment of rare diseases, as without accurate diagnosis, appropriate screening programmes and targeting of diagnostic tests, patients and families cannot access effective treatment or therapy, or manage their condition appropriately. All those things are important to the person who is living with such a disease every day of their life. A delay in diagnosis, or a misdiagnosis, could also involve multiple avoidable appointments with doctors and consultants, incorrect treatments and diagnostic tests, and significant distress. I hate to talk about money but it is an important factor in how the health service works, so we have to consider it. If we can do things more efficiently and effectively, let us do so, and deliver a better service, without some of the current bureaucracy and paperwork.

The UK rare diseases strategy represents the first time the four nations of the UK have come together to recognise and respond to the needs of rare disease patients systematically and structurally. It follows the founding principle of the NHS that treatment should be a response to need. The NHS is an organisation that we love and have great pride in—a pride that was mentioned in the House yesterday—and we want it to deliver across the whole spectrum for everyone. The rare disease strategy essentially gathers a set of 51 commitments that all four nations in the UK could agree to implement. When the Minister responds will he tell us how the 51 commitments will be achieved—will there be follow-up regulation and monitoring to make sure that they all take place?

Regrettably, few of the commitments require the four nations to work together on rare diseases. I find that a wee bit hard to understand. We should be exchanging expertise. If in Northern Ireland we are more expert on one aspect of treating rare diseases, let us do that part; if someone in Wales, Scotland or England is more expert on another aspect, let them do that part. Let us exchange our knowledge with each other to take the strategy forward. For high-quality care to be available to all patients with rare diseases across the UK, such collaboration needs to improve and increase.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

I commend the hon. Gentleman on leading the debate. On the issue of co-operation and co-ordination across the UK, does he agree that the issue of rare diseases could be taken up for focus work by the British-Irish Council? As that body represents all eight Administrations within these islands, not just the devolved regions of the UK and Whitehall, its involvement could help to foster a sense that across these islands there is an open faculty of all those who are trying to specialise in improving the treatment and care of people with rare diseases.

[Jim Shannon]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. The Teenage Cancer Trust already has 27 units working across the whole of the United Kingdom and Ireland. Bodies are already working across the borders, so to speak. As I said earlier, if someone in the Republic of Ireland or someone somewhere else in Europe has knowledge and expertise, let us galvanise our approach and work together.

It is in the area of rare diseases where the value of resource and service sharing can most easily be seen. The population size and distribution in each of our four nations vary tremendously, as do the health care needs, and there are significant efficiencies to be gained from sharing the burden between the four health services.

The Brittle Bone Society has highlighted that there needs to be a clear commitment to develop a fully functioning and properly staffed transitional service offering all the multidisciplinary services needed for all-round care at this life stage.

There should also be consideration for other departments, such as mature or older well women and well men clinics. Charitable patient organisations may be resource-poor, and it takes time, care, consideration, planning logistical preparation, communication, and an effort to inform and advise members to recruit them to take part in vital surveys, research trials and other invaluable projects.

Research into and development of new treatments and medicines for rare and very rare diseases, known as orphan and ultra-orphan medicines, is an important feature in medical research and the life sciences sector. A large number of products have been developed or are in development to treat rare and very rare diseases. Such research can provide valuable insight into the treatment of conditions that affect large numbers of people. Research and development must be enhanced to provide hope and an answer for those who are suffering from such diseases. The fact that the number of people who suffer from a disease is small must not detract from the fact that a child or adult in the UK is suffering, and we must do all that we can to alleviate that.

The Specialised Healthcare Alliance has sent me some helpful information. It refers to highly specialised services for the rarest conditions, some of which we may never have heard of—apart, perhaps, from a mention on TV, which will probably have been the first we have heard of it—but unfortunately they are occurring more often. There are some 500 patients in England and some 600 patients across the whole UK. Such illnesses and diseases are complex and need the highest level of expertise and knowledge to address. The alliance states:

“Many patients in Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland depend upon the quality of English highly specialised services for their patients, given the very small number of centres that can sensibly provide these services.”

That goes back to a point that I made in the beginning: we are dependent on England being the driver for the issue, and on NHS England as the organisation that we follow in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. The alliance also refers to “properly funded administrative support”. These are issues that it would like to see taken forward. It also says that the problem of capacity in the system has to be addressed to ensure that resources are there and that opportunities for specialised services are and can be delivered.

An example of the need to work together in the regions can be found in the fact that there is a regional variation in post-bone marrow transplant care. Patients who have received a transplant will face a range of severe and debilitating late effects, as well as life-threatening infection, due to the nature of their therapy. Those complex needs have to be managed by a transplant clinician in a late effects clinic, in which the co-morbidities can be considered with a full range of treatments by a specialist team. Without security of funding, a transplant centre cannot provide that service, so variation will creep in where follow-up care is commissioned by clinical commissioning groups.

Only small numbers of people receive transplants—1,440 in 2011. A nephew of mine has received a transplant, which transformed his life greatly. We are thankful to the donor for making that happen. It was not always plain sailing; sometimes there were backward steps. Has the organ been accepted by the body? Was there medication to ensure that that happened? At the end of the day, he is a bright young man today, and doing very well due to his kidney transplant. Many years ago, it would not have seemed possible, but we now have the opportunity to see a young man who has done extremely well through a transplant. There is a clear argument for NHS England to foot the bill to ensure the security of the service. Furthermore, it should ensure that the right type of care is available by drawing up national guidelines on what constitutes a late effects clinic to eliminate variation.

Time has beaten me, and I want to give others the opportunity to speak. I am not going to go into any further detail on the issue. Although the key commitments are welcome, there are fears of how they will work in reality. The Department must work with other Departments regionally to ensure that not only are those commitments realised, but that there is no longer a regional disparity in service provision. I commented on regional disparity yesterday in relation to the debate in the Chamber, and there is also a clear regional disparity on this topic. How can we achieve this funding and heart? The rare disease groups have shown that there is heart in abundance. Those organisations have spoken to hon. Members present and other hon. Members, who are unable to attend. However, we also need Government commitment to funding. Perhaps today we will get the assurance that that is forthcoming.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

I commend the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) on introducing the debate, which is taking place just a few months after the all-party group on muscular dystrophy concluded its inquiry; I took part in some of the evidence sessions. The group expressed the concern, which has been voiced in the debate, that some of the changes that are afoot could imperil some of the good, concentrated work that has been done on rare diseases. There is a fear that the confused migration of various functions and tasks means that some of the specialist focus over the past few years has been lost.

The Government have argued that there will be new approaches, and they have said that the UK strategy would help to take care of some issues, creating a new focus on rare diseases. However, they also said that the £50 million specialised services commissioning innovation fund would be used to support work on rare diseases. Only a month after the all-party group reported with its concerns, that fund was essentially withdrawn because of other funding pressures. The statements and assurances that we get do not add up. The fears and apprehensions of many of the rare disease campaign groups and others, including Members and all-party groups, are reinforced by the apparent confusion.

The Government need to do more to give the rare disease strategy credibility and traction. In an intervention on the hon. Member for Strangford, I talked about what was needed, in addition to work at the UK level, to get better co-ordination between NHS England and the various devolved health services. Besides each responsible health service area doing its bit, there is a need for real collaboration that transcends those areas. Indeed, I see that happening beyond the UK; I see it spanning the whole of the British-Irish Council, which includes the Republic of Ireland, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands. There are people with rare conditions in isolated parts of these islands, and the idea of combining our efforts on rare diseases and trying to achieve an economy of effort that would not be possible within one jurisdiction or health authority is important. The British-Irish Council is ready made to bring added emphasis and commitment to such areas.

It is important to do more than just pledge greater co-ordination and prioritisation for rare diseases; another issue to be dealt with is resources. As individual health authorities find it harder to guarantee a competent concentration of commitment to rare diseases, we must find critical mass at a higher level that transcends the health authorities and the devolved health service areas. That is why the UK strategy is an important concept. The 51 commitments are strong and sound, but there are questions about whether they will, in practice, add up to a full strategy, if they are left to the interpretation of each area individually. At times, there seems to be confusion about when NHS England is driving for the UK as a whole, and when it is in the lead simply as a matter of quantum—because it is the biggest. I am not sure whether there is a full strategy and co-ordination plan, and we need to continue working on that.

Some hon. Members have mentioned excellent work done in various locations, some of which depends on the skilled and dedicated leadership of clinicians, who may move to other posts. We should not take it for granted that the excellence achieved in some places will be sustained and maintained. That is a challenge, not least in the area of rare diseases. People progress professionally and move on, and sometimes the services that they leave are not sustained and maintained with the same quality. That is why—to return to the idea of co-ordination and co-operation across the UK, and more widely across the British-Irish Council—I argue for a central, open faculty. Then the clinicians who provide treatment for, or do research on, rare diseases may not feel that they are working on in isolation, feeling nearly as lonely as some sufferers; instead, they may feel part of a working, open faculty, in which they can connect with other professionals and patients.

I commend the Government and devolved Administrations on formulating the strategy so far, but funding is a fundamental question. We need significant challenge funds to be available, so that specialists who respond to particular patients, identifying needs better and coming up with innovative treatments, are not left trying to busk around within their local health service, trying to get a bit of funding here or there. The fact that the £50 million innovations commissioning fund was an early casualty in the reorganised NHS does not give great encouragement. More needs to be done.

The Minister with responsibility for care is responding to the debate, and as the hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck) said, few of the rare diseases we have been considering have outright cures or treatments; for many with such diseases, the approach is supportive therapies and coping support. My remarks have concentrated perhaps more on clinical leadership, but care and support are also hugely important. I know that the Minister will be conscious of that. Aspects of what I mean include setting good models and examples of practice and experience; helping individuals—particularly the young people who are sufferers of so many of the rare diseases—and their families; and thinking about improving care networks and the meshing of services, so that people who provide services, whether in education or family support, understand better what rare diseases may entail, and their possible life-cycle variation during the life of a child. People who provide social and education services cannot readily make themselves experts in the conditions in question, and often they confuse conditions whose names sound the same, although they are very different in character, and give rise to different demands and behavioural consequences. Wider support is needed.

Finally, the Government need to take account of the context of welfare reform and changes to several benefits, and the fact that every so often, people must reapply and prove their case for benefits again. That is particularly hard when people have rare diseases. Those people and their families should not have to spell out their condition again, in all the medical jargon, and explain it. They should not be made to jump through those hoops. We should find a better way in the social security system of showing understanding about rare diseases.

[Jim Shannon]

The time it takes to process an application is frustrating for the person concerned—and it frustrates me and other hon. Members, too. In special cases such as those involving rare diseases, I have had to go to someone at the top of the tree in Northern Ireland, to expedite the process. Does the hon. Gentleman think that people with rare diseases should be put in a fast queue, to be processed more quickly?

[Mark Durkan]

I think they should be put in a “not to be neglected” queue, rather than a “too difficult for us to sort out now” queue. The problem at the moment is that if an applicant’s condition is deemed very rare or complex, instead of their case being given added attention and urgency, it is allowed to silt up. That can happen with medical treatment and the opportunity for further diagnosis, which often requires travel outside the jurisdiction, and with the social security issues that I have mentioned, and on which I want to finish.

The Welfare Reform Act 2012 contained provisions that seemed to assume that many people with lifelong conditions would suddenly improve and not want to let on about being cured. It is a bit much when families who have their hands full supporting someone with a rare condition—particularly a child or young person—as well as supporting other family members, must constantly jump through hoops for a system that is supposed to support them and understand their needs.

Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Monday 18th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan]

I believe that they potentially are. If one has been privileged to have a HET report shared with one by a family, one has only to read it to see that it may be pointing less towards any possible prosecution, than bringing out significant information about the background events and circumstances. The first time that many families found out that their loved ones were murdered by the same weapons was when they read the HET reports that dealt with murders by the Glenanne gang. No one ever told them that before. They were never told that as a result of RUC investigations or any other revelations, or comments or observations made by Ministers about the nature or network of crimes or murders. None of that information was ever shared with those families until they received it from the HET, and until the Pat Finucane Centre literally brought them together as victims of the same weapons.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I seek clarification on the issue of the HET inquires. As an elected representative during the last couple of years I have made four, perhaps five, referrals on behalf of individuals to the HET. The HET has replied, but they are confidential, private, individual issues. Is the hon. Gentleman saying that they should be made known to everyone, even though the families themselves want them kept secret?

Cancer Patient Experience

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 30th October 2013 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon]

I thank my hon. Friend for that comment. In my constituency, we have a young carers organisation that also works with adults. I have met some young carers and am aware of young sons and daughters who look after mothers, fathers and other siblings. We could not do without them. We are ever mindful of their experiences. I know young carers, my hon. Friend knows them and I suspect that everyone in the House knows individual young carers.

Some people may ask how the cancer experience can ever be positive, but although going through cancer will always be horrific, the care that is given can and does impact upon how a patient feels. The Macmillan report states:

“Good patient experience is closely connected to improving other outcomes such as recovery from an illness. However, the sad reality is that many people still have a poor experience of care.”

We can hopefully try to address that problem today. Cancer is no respecter of persons, but that does not mean that cancer treatment precludes the sufferer receiving the utmost respect and dignity through treatments that may be undignified in their essence. We have all lost a little dignity while in the doctor’s surgery and the manner of the doctor or nurse often determines how embarrassed we become. If we are treated gently and with care rather than being pushed through the process as quickly as possible to get the next patient seen, we may feel better as a result. That does not always happen and I can certainly appreciate the pressure that doctors and nurses are under to do the procedures, tick the red-tape boxes and bring down waiting lists. However, the fact that we are not dealing with lists but with people must never be far from our minds.

Again, I stress that I am not placing the blame on the providers of care, but something must be done to address the fact that, on average, only 56% of cancer patients in England said that doctors and nurses asked them by what name they wanted to be called, which was an issue highlighted by the hon. Member for Hertsmere. A little bit of consideration and allowing the patient to maintain their dignity does not take a whole lot of effort. It may seem trivial, but this is a serious point: a girl called Betty works in my office and were I to call her “Beatrice”, she would get upset and would tell me. Similarly, should I refer to the other lady in my office as Mrs Cotter when she is actually Mrs Armstrong-Cotter, she would immediately put me in my place. I use those examples because it is important that a caring bond is formed with cancer patients. A wee bit of time, consideration, humility and dignity can really make a difference. The same can be said on a greater scale when people are doing intimate things to patients while always reminding them that patients do not know them. That is a small thing that the Macmillan report highlighted that could make a patient feel that much more comfortable and indeed that much more safe.

The carers at the Macmillan reception also described some things that they thought should be happening in hospitals. They outlined the need for someone to be available to hospitals across all regions. The six people we met yesterday were all from different parts of the United Kingdom and all had different stories to tell. It seems that some trusts are responding well, but others are not. We need a universal response that encompasses all areas. The Macmillan representatives also suggested that someone should also be available to provide advice on benefits and on care and just to give support.

Another point that came out of yesterday’s discussion was about respite care. Some of the ladies we met were single carers—in other words, a wife looking after a husband, with no sons, daughters or other family members close at hand. We also need to consider the issue of respite care and how we can help such carers get a wee bit of time for themselves.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The hon. Gentleman said that Macmillan Cancer Support has suggested that help with understanding social security and welfare advice is important. Is he aware that, in the Altnagelvin area hospital in my constituency, Macmillan and the Western Health and Social Care Trust run the independent Macmillan/North West advice service to do exactly that? It basically navigates people through the benefits system and all the other support mechanisms. It does not expect people to be experts on such arrangements in the public administration system, but takes away an awful lot of the worry and provides pathways to care and support that they would not otherwise know was available.

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. I have such a service in my area. I am pleased that Macmillan and others provide such a level of care and support at times of great concern and worry in the Ulster hospital in Dundonald. I must say a great thank you to the volunteers—a great many of them are volunteers —who provide that service.

It is nice to see the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Leicester West (Liz Kendall), in her place, because she and I had a discussion the other day about the report on care that is coming to the House for consideration. I hope that some of the points made by the ladies to whom we spoke will be part of our next debate on the draft Care and Support Bill, and I am sure that no one will be found wanting in responding to that.

In my opinion, the ethos of a hospital is reflected in how patients are treated. The Macmillan survey, which highlighted the priority of patient experience, has painted a picture of how each different hospital board views the importance of the patient care experience. It found that boards raised patient experience as an agenda item in policy meetings, but that only 5% of such items led to further action: boards noted the patient experience, but did not deem it important enough to follow up.

When I wore my other hat as a councillor, for some years I chaired the council’s audit and risk management committee and read the absolutely endless reports on matters prioritised as categories 1, 2 or 3: something in category 1 needed immediate attention, something in category 2 needed attention in a reasonable time, and something in category 3 needed attention just at some stage. It is safe to say that many of the category 3 priority cases remained the same and did not change from year to year, because time never permitted for making those changes, as something more urgent was always pressing. In other words, there were always category 1 and 2 priorities and, unfortunately, category 3 priorities sometimes sat on the shelf. My belief is that patient experience should not be a category 3 priority, but should be considered as a category 1 priority; it should not have to wait until everything else is fixed before it receives attention.

To conclude as I began, cancer is a wretched illness, whose deadly or grimy fingers reach out to impact on wide family circles, as well as entire communities. The experience of going through cancer has an impact on not only the individual, but the people around them. I believe that it is time to make cancer a priority, with a UK strategy for the Government here and those in the regions of Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. That is why I wholeheartedly support the hon. Member for Hertsmere and, in doing so, I again ask that any decision taken by the Secretary of State will look at having a UK strategy as well as additional funding. I thank the hon. Gentleman for bringing forward this debate.

Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 9th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan]

No, having been Minister for Finance and Personnel in Northern Ireland, I do not believe there is such a compelling reason. I would have regarded it as a distraction from my full-time day job if I had been operating in another Chamber as well. The limited opportunities we have here to ask questions on a statement or the Budget do not compare to the effective opportunities a Minister and his or her officials have via the other channels to the Treasury, such as joint ministerial committees that exist for engagement between Governments. Those are adequate for Scotland and Wales, so I do not think we should create an exception in Northern Ireland if someone happens to be the Minister for Finance and Personnel.

[Jim Shannon]

What about your party leader?

[Mark Durkan]

The hon. Gentleman has obviously missed my point. We want to legislate so that there are no special cases, no special pleading and no tactical pressure on anybody, be they a party leader or anybody else. That is why we should legislate to a standard, not on an ad hominem basis.

Suicide Prevention

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 6th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for South Antrim (Dr McCrea) on bringing this matter to the House. I also congratulate my hon. Friends and everyone else who has spoken. It is a pleasure to have the opportunity to sum up.

Today is an example of this House working at its best. All Members and all parties have come together and issued a joint call from the Floor of the House for better services. The contributions that Members have made have shown that the House is an immense fount of knowledge. In the short time I have, I intend to highlight the main issues that have been raised.

My hon. Friend the Member for South Antrim introduced the subject very well. He referred to the bereavement caused by suicide. That is an interesting point, because people have to come to terms with what has happened and how it affects them. I had not thought about that until my hon. Friend made the point and I realise that he was right. Other Members have talked about how suicide affects a person’s entire family and their friends. The hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) spoke about anniversaries in particular. I will return to that point in a moment. Those issues have been raised over and over again.

My hon. Friend spoke about the vulnerability of people on coming out of prison. He spoke about the drug and alcohol culture among young men. That is not only an urban problem, but a rural problem. My hon. Friend’s constituency covers both types of area.

Members have said that this must not be a taboo subject and that it is time that we faced up to it. Hopefully we have faced up to it in this debate. The contributions have been immense. We have all met people who hide their depression and anxiety. Members have raised the fact that the suicide rate is higher in Northern Ireland than in other parts of the United Kingdom.

Prevention was a key theme in what my hon. Friend the Member for South Antrim said. He referred to the impact that computers and websites can have on children. He challenged us to address these issues. That set the scene clearly for me.

The Minister referred to the steps that are being taken to reduce suicide in England. He referred to the figures for the past year. His commitment to working with regional Assemblies is good news because it means that all parts of the United Kingdom, which are represented here today, are working together.

Some 75% of those who take their lives are not known to Government agencies. I did not know that before this debate started. We can look for the signs in people, such as whether they have depression. Like all hon. Members, I have met people over the years who unfortunately fall into that category.

The hon. Member for Bridgend gave a detailed, decisive and, I would say, masterful contribution to the debate and I thank her for that. She displayed great knowledge about the rates of suicide among 30 to 40-year-olds and among females.

The question that everybody asks themselves—I have asked myself this question when friends of mine have died—is, “What could I have done to prevent it?” You search your heart, you search your soul and you almost put yourself into the grave worrying about what more you could have done. Every Member who has spoken has mentioned that. Behind that question there is perhaps a bit of guilt as well.

The right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) spoke about the vital importance of support groups and Papyrus in particular. I am conscious that I am summing up and not making a contribution, but I just want to say that the LINK group in Newtownards does a magnificent job to help people who are considering suicide and those who have depression.

The hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) spoke about suicide prevention and the moneys available in Northern Ireland, which gives that leadership, as well as the moneys that are set aside. The hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) spoke on behalf of soldiers who leave the service and feel vulnerable, and as Members of Parliament we have all heard such cases.

In an intervention, the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) mentioned the sensitivity surrounding the coroner’s report, and there is a lesson there for other parts of the United Kingdom after what has happened in Northern Ireland. The hon. Member for Bridgend spoke about the use of sport for young people and the importance of correct wording in dramas and soaps, and that valid point was also made by the hon. Member for Foyle in a passionate and real way. A “suicide champion” was referred to, and the need to extend that across the United Kingdom, and the comments and points of view expressed contain lessons for all regions in the United Kingdom.

[Mark Durkan]

I am entirely comfortable with everything the hon. Gentleman is saying about how we need better to co-ordinate and mesh this work across the UK and use all means to do that. Of course, the problem is wider in these islands. Recently, Shane McEntee, a Government Minister in the south of Ireland, took his own life, and there are serious problems that need to be addressed even at school level. Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that this issue should perhaps be prioritised at the level of the British-Irish Council? Perhaps a debate such as this could take place at the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly so that we gather all the experiences and good practice that has come out of the bad experiences in all parts of these islands?

[Jim Shannon]

I agree, and I think all Members of this House feel the same. I commend the hon. Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew), who referred to bullying at school and the importance of family when he was working in a hospice. He mentioned the difference between death and death from suicide—both very tragic and real issues—and spoke about the red socialist and the blue Tory working together. That is good and the way it should be in this House, doing the best we can.

My right hon. Friend and colleague the Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) gave a detailed account of what happens in north Belfast which, along with west Belfast, unfortunately has a reputation for the highest suicide rates in Northern Ireland. He referred to the hard work done by many people in the PIPS group—the Public Initiative for Prevention of Suicide and Self-Harm—FASA, churches and many other groups that do tremendous work. Queen’s university has made a study of north Belfast, and if my right hon. Friend ever needs facts or evidence of what is wrong and how to address it, those are issues we must consider.

I have in my notes, “Coping with peace after years of violence”, and unfortunately in north Belfast, and perhaps west Belfast, that is one of the issues, and my right hon. Friend clearly addressed that point. He and other Members referred to copycat suicides, and the hon. Member for Bridgend mentioned anniversaries. The work done by the Samaritans in A and E was mentioned, and, as my right hon. Friend said, there are lessons to be learned for us all.

The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott), said that although any death is tragic, suicide is the worst as it poses many questions for the family left behind, and she spoke about the issue very clearly and honestly. She referred to the good work done by Labour when it was in power. I know that to be the case and I look forward to more such work.

My hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson) referred to the increased number of suicides in Northern Ireland—300—and mentioned Yellow Ribbon and the 400 people helped by that organisation in one year. Four hundred people sought help, and volunteers and groups were there to help.

I thank the hon. Member for Foyle for his passionate, powerful and revealing speech that moved us all, and he put forward a number of ideas. The Maiden City has a suicide awareness day; perhaps it could be a model for the rest of the United Kingdom. He also referred to a self-harm register. Although not many people mentioned that issue in Northern Ireland, the British Medical Association referred to the fact that a third of those who self harm commit suicide, so that issue is important. He mentioned the relationship between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

Last but not least, I remember when the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) spoke about mental health in the Chamber some time ago—I have never forgotten that speech. He spoke again today with passion and belief, and with the inner knowledge that comes from his experience. He has been able to describe that for all hon. Members in the Chamber.

We should be clear that we need the voluntary services and the Government to work together. I thank everyone for their valuable and sensitive contributions in the Chamber today. The debate has been excellent.

Financial Services Bill

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 22nd May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan]

It is a privilege to follow the hon. Member for Chichester (Mr Tyrie), the Chair of the Treasury Committee. Like him, I recognise that the Bill represents an improvement but that it is capable of being improved further in a number of respects. He has touched on some issues, such as the balance of membership on the MPC and the FPC, which we addressed in Committee, and the future accountability of the new regulatory players.

There are deficiencies, and the hon. Gentleman at the very end of his remarks touched on what for some Members in Committee was a difficulty: when we put forward many amendments, we were told by the Minister that they were not necessary or were redundant, because the FSA was already doing what they proposed. For quite a lot of the time in Committee, we appeared to be told that the new regulatory regime was essentially going to be “Continuity FSA”, and that we could take it for granted that every good and acceptable thing that it was doing would carry on regardless. It was very much “Carry on FSA” throughout large parts of the debate in Committee.

Like other hon. Members, I recognise the deficiencies in the Bill. As I stressed in Committee, it has significant holes in its provisions for compelling consumer interests, which the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) touched on. The Government rejected key amendments to the provisions on consumer credit, and the related but very distinct issue of debt management, that would have given the Bill more meaning and relevance to people and offered them a bit more of a promise. Instead, the Government are merely saying, “We will attend to these things in future, and there is enough future-proofing in the Bill to allow us to amend it for all sorts of reasons and purposes.” They rejected, as they have again today, amendments that would have coloured in how those amending powers could be used—in particular, they rejected the amendments that would have indicated where the regulators were meant to reflect on certain matters and to advise on where regulation may need to change.

The hon. Members for Nottingham East and for Chichester emphasised the importance of parliamentary oversight and reporting. The need for crisis provisions may not be far away in the current circumstances, and we require clarity about that. After the next crisis, when there is confusion about who is responsible and which bit of furniture is meant to support which particular aspect, people will not accept that hon. Members did not know about these issues, because we are the authors of this legislation. As the hon. Member for Chichester said, it is a pity that the Bill, instead of having its own full sweep of provisions, tends to rely on going in and out of various bits and pieces of all sorts of other legislation, which are bumping into each other and not connecting very well. It is a bit like that Johnny Cash song, “One Piece at a Time”.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Sing it!

[Mark Durkan]

No, I will absolutely resist the idea of singing it. The only people who ask me to sing are bouncers, because it helps them to clear the premises.

Another deficiency relates to stewardship and the fiduciary duties of institutional investors and fund managers. Again, the Government assiduously resisted straightforward amendments in that respect. I cannot understand why they would refuse to have in a Bill principles that they say are reflected in common law. If this about consolidating legislation and making sure that there are no ambiguities in future, it would have made sense to include such provisions.

There is another serious gap in relation to consolidated oversight, and I hope that the Lords will pick up on that. The Bill provides for consolidated oversight in relation to regulated authorities where the parent holding company is itself a financial institution and a regulated authority, but not where it is not. That gives rise to the whole question of the “Tescofication” of banking services. While the Bill provides that there can be changes in future, it does not specify where they might happen. The Government resisted amendments that would have coloured in the responsibility for considering where changes might be needed and, in particular, ensured that the new regulators did that.

On a more regional level, there is particular interest in Northern Ireland about the progress of the Bill and its associated measures because of the change to the regulation of credit unions. I hope that the Minister is aware that there is still deep disappointment among those in the credit union movement in Northern Ireland about the impact of the new regulations, which will take them back from where they should be and diminish their existing capacity to make sound investment choices. They look forward to being able to offer more services. Although that will be possible under regulation by the FSA and, in future, the PFA, they are disappointed that the price for that, from the first day of the new regulatory system, is that they will be restricted in making the sensible, prudential investment decisions for their members that they have been making very successfully.

Historical Enquiries Team

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 7th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. The talks are about the past. I am talking about specific incidents and cases involving the HET. I feel that these questions have to be answered. However, I accept his point.

If the HET had had the appropriate funding from central Government at the time of its investigations, when it was under the direct control of the Secretary of State, would the outcomes have been more extensive and brought satisfaction to the family?

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. We appreciate the deep sensitivity of the issues of which he speaks. I speak as the one party leader who lobbied for and supported the creation of the HET. The right hon. Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy), who was the Secretary of State at the time, can vouch for the fact that only one party lobbied for the HET and supported the Chief Constable of the time in so doing. Perhaps if more of us had recognised what was involved, we would have secured better resources and, more important, a stronger mandate for the HET. The limitations on the HET’s mandate are part of the problem, as this important case demonstrates.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I agree with him wholeheartedly that if there had been better funding, the investigations might have come to more successful conclusions.

The second case I mentioned at the start of my speech is that of Hugh Cummings, known as Lexie. Twenty-nine years ago on 15 June 1982, one of life’s true gentlemen was killed when Lexie Cummings, aged 39, from Artigarvan outside Strabane in County Tyrone and a part-time member of the Ulster Defence Regiment, was shot by the IRA at close range in the back and the chest as he got into his car in the centre of Strabane, during his lunch break from the menswear shop where he had worked for 25 years:

“Lexie was well known and held in high regard by everyone in his community. The small village of Artigarvan came to a standstill for his funeral, where the Presbyterian minister told mourners:

‘In the face of tremendous provocation you have remained a totally loyal and law-abiding community. You have watched helplessly the very flower of manhood being systematically murdered. Your anger and frustration runs very, very deep. Yet there has been no retaliation and there will be no retaliation because your faith is built on the solid rock of the righteousness of God’”.

The family refused to accept a letter of sympathy from the then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, James Prior, which was delivered to them on the day of the funeral. They sent the letter back with the message that

“the hands of the security forces should be freed”.

A spokesman for the family said at the time:

“Nothing is being done, feelings are running very high on this issue. Innocent, defenceless people are being mown down and no action is being taken against the godfathers who are walking the streets. They are getting away with murder”.

When the HET investigated the death of Lexie Cummings, it found a different story. It found that a thorough investigation was carried out by the RUC at the time, which found cartridge discharge residue—gunpowder residue—on the suspect. It found fibres from the suspect’s trousers on the seat of the car, which was left abandoned at the scene of the crime. The two guns that were used were found by the Garda Siochana the next month and tests confirmed that that was the case.

It was an open-and-shut case, and yet questions must be answered. Why did William Gerard McMonagle not stand trial for the murder of Lexie Cummings? How was it that William Gerard McMonagle was allowed to travel across the border to safety and freedom, and to begin a new life, which has led to him being the mayor of Letterkenny today? Why was he never extradited, when it was known where he was? Why was there no co-operation between the Garda Siochana and the RUC to bring McMonagle to justice?

The HET did not have access to the answers or criteria that the Director of Public Prosecutions used to issue his decision, which stated that in 1986 there was not a

“suitable case to make a request to the authorities in the Republic of Ireland for the return of Mr McMonagle”.

Why was that? Was the HET prevented from finding out the answers and the truth?

How did the DPP reach his decision of 2003? It was that

“having reviewed the evidence and information now available and obtained the opinion of counsel, I have concluded that there is no longer a reasonable prospect of convicting William Gerard McMonagle of any criminal Offence. I therefore rescind the direction of 13 December 1982 and direct no prosecution of William Gerard McMonagle”.

What was the evidence, and why were the family not made aware of it? Can the Minister tell us what answer we should give the family about the criteria by which the decision was reached? The HET cannot provide the answer—who can? Can he? Why was McMonagle no longer classified as on the run even though the HET confirmed that he was never granted an amnesty?

Pensioners and Winter Fuel Payments

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 22nd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson). I commend him and his colleagues on bringing the motion to the House. In particular, I commend the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) on the cogent and assertive way in which he moved the motion and anticipated many of the Government’s arguments.

The motion is timely and focused. Contrary to much of the debate, which has ranged far and wide along the full dimensions of fuel poverty, the structural condition of the housing stock, fuel prices and all those vagaries, the motion is focused on something under the control of the House and the Government: the decision on the winter fuel payments. We are clear that all those issues need to be addressed, and the measures taken by the previous and present Governments are to be encouraged, as too are other more far-reaching measures, but given the rampant rise in energy costs for older people and all the other pressures on their incomes, we cannot countenance complacency about the cut to winter fuel payments.

The decision on winter fuel payments represents a clear and present cut imposed by this Government. The Minister tried to argue first that it was not a cut, then that it was a Labour planned cut, but the fact is this: it is a clear and present cut for pensioner households already facing other pressures and difficulties. It is a sleight of hand for people to suggest, “Well, the Government were committed to doing what the previous Government did”, because really they said, “No, we’re only committed to doing what we think the previous Government planned, not what they did.”

The hon. Member for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price) said that we have to talk to and listen to our pensioners. I have, and every single one has told me that the cut is an issue for them, and every single one is clear that for three years they received payments at a certain level, but that this year they will not get them at that level. That is a cut, and it is a cut from this Government.

[Jim Shannon]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that this is at a time when they need it most?

[Mark Durkan]

Yes, of course it is at a time when they need it most, and it is not only the time of year when they need it most but the time in the economic cycle—with all the difficulties that people are facing.

We have heard some duplicitous arguments from Government Members. On the one hand many people talk about the difficulties with means-tested benefits and with supporting pensioners through pension credits, but on the other hand we have heard criticisms of the fuel payment and the fact that it is not means-tested or discriminatory. We have heard contradictory arguments.

Indeed, the Minister earlier argued against the whole scheme, structure and logic of winter fuel payments. He actually argued against the allowance altogether and said that better, more discriminating interventions were available to protect people against fuel poverty and to support more deserving pensioners. In the light of his logic, I wonder whether the Government plan fundamentally to review or redesign the fuel payment.

The previous Government introduced the single annual payment in 1998, but the first time I heard it advocated was in 1988, when my predecessor, John Hume, commended to the then social security Minister, John Major, the introduction of an annual thermal allowance to overcome many of the difficulties with the cold weather payments, their inadequacy and the poor and inconsistent triggering system. Thankfully, we got something similar with the winter fuel payment in 1998.

Over the years, the amount of money committed to the payment has changed and top-ups have been introduced. Pensioners have come to see those top-ups as a given, and considering what the Prime Minister said going into the election, they had every right to expect them to remain a given. The motion tabled by my compatriots in the Democratic Unionist party gives the House the opportunity to signal to the Government that that is what we want and what pensioners expect.

Many valid arguments have been made about how to tackle fuel poverty—improving energy efficiency, for example. Although some of those measures can be introduced in Northern Ireland at the devolved level, others need wider intervention from here. Those could include more up-front investment in energy efficiency retrofit schemes or VAT concessions, not least to stimulate work in the hard-pressed construction sector, which is not building new houses. There is an awful lot of work that people with construction skills could do to retrofit and improve existing houses, and there are many things that young people who want to get construction skills could do on such schemes. The Government need to think more widely about other measures to tackle fuel poverty, but they should not use the existence of other interventions as an excuse to justify this unjustified cut.

I shall not rehearse the statistics on the levels of fuel poverty in Northern Ireland that my colleagues have mentioned because other Members want to speak, and nor shall I rehearse the number of winter deaths from fuel poverty either in the UK at large or in Northern Ireland. I shall only make the point that those deaths are avoidable and that we need to take what steps we can to avoid them. This cut is avoidable.

The Minister asked, “Where else can the money come from?” I do not necessarily agree with some of the suggestions from right hon. and hon. colleagues, although I am glad that the Government moved on from some of the vanity projects—for example, the NHS IT scheme. Money could also be saved on Trident.

Welfare Reform Bill

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 15th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. She clearly has cause to represent people in relation to social fund issues and has a good understanding of the financial crisis they face.

Many of the people who come to me in my office have health problems. If they are unable to work, possibly because of an injury at work or an accident at home, they are left facing a financial crisis. Intimidation is not rife in Northern Ireland and nowhere else; it happens in other parts of the United Kingdom as well, and there are occasions when someone has to leave home quickly, and they face financial crisis. Most of those who come to me are single people, maybe a single parent with a young child, or sometimes they are people coming out of care or out of prison, or people who have experienced family break-ups.

The hon. Member for Makerfield (Yvonne Fovargue) described the situation well, and I share her experiences as a representative. Those people are under great financial pressure and are worried about where they are going to go. They look for alternatives to borrowing money. Sometimes, as a result of their inability to pay back their loans on time, they end up in hospital. Loan sharks are probably the only people willing to lend them money but at an extortionate rate, which puts them under great pressure. I am sure other hon. Members have seen that.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Is my colleague, like me, at a loss to understand how some hon. Members who are prepared to commend the social fund measures are the same people who, in relation to parliamentary expenses, argue for the operational principles of clarity, predictability, responsiveness, consistency and the right to query or appeal? They demand those operational principles where it affects themselves, but they are prepared to mangle them where they affect their most marginal constituents when it comes to the social fund.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his passion and his commitment. I would find it difficult to argue against those points. I should like to hear from the Minister what measures the Government intend to put in place to ensure that the people whom I have described—the single people facing financial problems or those experiencing health problems, marital break-ups or intimidation, who clearly have problems at home—will fit into the system. I do not see that they will. I see extreme difficulties for them in future.

The hon. Lady spoke about those managing debt. Not everybody has the ability to manage their financial circumstances. We meet people in my office who unfortunately fit into that category. We try to advise them or send them to someone who can give them advice and help, but in many cases they are unable to manage their financial circumstances. The crisis loan enables them to borrow and get out of the crisis that they face, and agreeing a direct debit helps them to manage their money.

For those who come to me in financial crisis, the crisis loan is their only way out. I would love to be the Northern bank or the Ulster bank and be able to lend all those people money personally, but unfortunately my resources do not go that far and it is not my responsibility to do that singly and individually. That is the responsibility of Government.

Postal Services Bill

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 12th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that as postmasters and postmistresses retire and opportunities become available for people to take on public post offices, a 10-year, rather than a three-year, agreement would make that more attractive? If he were considering taking over such a business, would a 10-year agreement give him some confidence in the future?

[Mark Durkan]

I fully accept the hon. Gentleman’s point. The proposed agreement would make a difference not just for the individual business people who make a commitment to individual post offices, but collectively for the network and for those who will have responsibility for the broader Post Office enterprise in future. It is meant to give a period of confidence and space, to reduce the unknowns and to give at least some stability and reliability regarding some of the knowns in that context. It would not solve all the other problems—and there are many other issues and challenges—but it would at least give people some measure of assurance.

Savings Accounts and Health in Pregnancy Grant Bill

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 26th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a sorry day on which we are debating this Bill on the Floor of the House. It is a sorry day too, when we realise that the people whom the Bill will hurt are those whom we have always had concerns about. The hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) said that he could not see the real benefits of the schemes. As the elected representative for Strangford, I can quite clearly see the benefits for the people who come to my office—the people I help, the people I see every day. The attacks and the changes for children and pregnant women are wrong. The policy and the strategy that the Government have put forward will unduly hurt those who can ill afford it, and who will feel the impact more than most. I understand the need for the coalition—indeed, the need for us all—to look at how we can best save moneys, but the question has to be asked: is this Bill the best way forward? Is the best way forward to deprive those who can least afford it, and who will feel the impact more than most?

I did some research on Strangford—with the help of the staff in this place, of course. The number of parents or guardians in my constituency who have taken advantage of child trust fund vouchers totalled just shy of 6,800, with some 5,000 being for accounts opened by the parents or guardians and just under 2,000 for accounts opened by HMRC. The figures for Northern Ireland are clear, and they send a message. Northern Ireland has taken advantage of the scheme, and the area that I represent is part of that. Some 123,000 vouchers were issued before April 2008. My constituency has the third highest take-up of vouchers by percentage. For me, and for where I work and live, that clearly shows that the child trust fund puts money into the pockets of those who will need it in the time to come. It also enables young children eventually—when they turn 18—to be presented with a tax-free fund. I believe that the child trust fund should and could have done that, if it had been given the opportunity.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The hon. Gentleman will recall, from his time in the Northern Ireland Assembly, the strong campaign that was fought there to ensure that credit unions in Northern Ireland could become providers of child trust funds. That campaign was fought in this House too, such was the demand to ensure that child trust funds were used in Northern Ireland and to improve direct take-up, with more choices being made by parents. That campaign was backed by all parties and all communities in Northern Ireland. That is how popular child trust funds were.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. The credit unions facilitated that role for child trust funds, as other Members have mentioned. The scheme was extremely popular in the area that I represent and in Northern Ireland as a whole. The figures that have been released clearly show that.

Parents did channel moneys and savings through for their children, but with respect I feel that the coalition—our Government—has stopped a worthwhile scheme, which will hurt the pockets of those who need help most. The ripples of that will come through in the next few months.

Capital Gains Tax (Rates)

Debate between Mark Durkan and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 23rd June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Thank you for calling me, Mr Deputy Speaker. May I, too, congratulate you on being elevated to the position of Deputy Speaker?

Before I came to the House today, I thought about what was I going to say, and I was mindful of that saying, “Whenever the clouds are on the horizon, you can either shelter from the storm or run with the wind.” I am conscious that this Government are doing more sheltering from the storm. The question for us, as elected representatives at Westminster, and for our constituents is: is there somewhere to shelter? That is what I shall comment on, but I am also conscious of the comments that I make. I always try to make constructive comments, because that is my nature, but I shall also underline some concerns that I, as an elected representative and MP, believe I am duty bound to mention.

In Northern Ireland, and in Strangford, which I represent, there is a very clear tightening of the belt. The marks are already there, and I just wonder how tight the belt will be by the time the Budget is eventually farmed out to all parts of the United Kingdom and all Departments. We in Northern Ireland are mindful of that in relation to the block budget.

I am very conscious also of the serious economic state that we are in. I am not ignoring it, and neither are the people of the United Kingdom. We all recognise that drastic measures need to be taken, but I have to ask: are they being taken in the right place and taken correctly, and will they adversely affect my constituents and, indeed, those of many other hon. Members who have spoken today? I recognise the need for health and perhaps international development to be ring-fenced, and that the Budget will not necessarily affect those areas. There is some talk about education, or at least some parts of it, remaining untouched as well, but in that case there will have to be cuts in other Departments.

I recognise that this House is very supportive and proud of the armed services as they fight in Afghanistan, Iraq and all over the world. Is a 25% cut in defence fair? The Prime Minister has given a commitment to the soldiers on the front line, wherever the war is taking place. However, if there is to be a 25% cut in defence, someone has to feel the pinch and the pain, and if it is not the soldiers on the front line—and it should not be—it has to be those at home. I am pleased that the cut will not affect the front line, but concerned about how it will affect other areas. Will it mean that commanders are pensioned off? Will it affect the MOD in buying equipment? The MOD will look for the best prices, as it probably should, but we do not want spending to be diminished in such a way that its position is undermined.

The cadet forces make a significant contribution across the whole United Kingdom, but particularly in Northern Ireland. It is very important for us in Northern Ireland to have cadet forces that bring the communities together. We have tried to achieve that for years, and we are now seeing the partnership begin to work better than it ever has before. Cadet forces, by their very nature, are drawn from both communities. There are more people from the Roman Catholic side of the community in the cadet forces in Londonderry, which the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) represents, as well as in Limavady, Enniskillen and Strabane. That has come about because joining the cadet forces has been attractive to young boys and girls, who recognise that some day they will want to serve in the British Army and the other services, including the Royal Air Force.

I want to highlight lone parents. I welcome the fact that the Government want to encourage them back to work; I think we all want to do that. However, when they have the opportunity to do so, we want them to have the jobs to go to. It is great to have this support in theory, but how does it come about in reality? Do the people have jobs, and are there opportunities and options? I am not sure that there are. I am concerned about the Government’s position.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. Does he accept that many of us represent constituencies with large numbers of single parents who are doing valiant work as parents, and that for them the problem is not a lack of work ethic but a lack of work?

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention; I wholeheartedly agree with his comments. It is all very well to have the theory of getting lone parents back to work, but if the jobs are not there, that theory is undermined. The Government must consider that.

In Northern Ireland, some 60% of jobs are in the public sector or public sector-dependent. I said this in my maiden speech a fortnight or so ago, but I will say it again because it is very important. I understand that the Government’s pledge is to increase private sector jobs and build up that area. However, before anything changes in the public sector, there has to be a private sector that fills the gap, so that those opportunities are there.

I turn to the 2.5% rise in VAT. In the area that I represent, there are a great many small and medium-sized businesses, which by their very nature create a lot of jobs collectively. Individually, that may amount to three, four or five jobs in a family business, but collectively they run into many hundreds, probably thousands. Although the rise is not going to kick in until January 2011, it causes great concern for the area that I represent, and specifically for businesses. Some small businesses may be hanging on by the skin of their teeth, and finding it very hard to get through difficult times, while looking ahead to perhaps another two, three or four years of austerity and the associated difficulties. Many businesses will try to absorb the VAT increase rather than pass on the extra prices, which they cannot do—not because they do not want to, but because they cannot do it in the competitive market that they are in. They have to try to take on large multinational businesses that have a bigger market and can therefore absorb such costs.