Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-ninth sitting)

Debate between Marie Tidball and Kim Leadbeater

Committee stage
Tuesday 25th March 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Kim Leadbeater]

It is fair to say that we have had a very valuable discussion on the matters relating to these amendments. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge for the considerable amount of hard work that she has put into researching these issues. As always, her approach has been extremely thorough and diligent.

I have been on my own journey regarding the need or otherwise to place definitions in the Bill, but having undertaken the valuable discussions we have had through this Committee—I think this genuinely has been the Committee at its best—along with the expert legal input and advice that my hon. Friend and the Committee have had, I think we are in the right place to enable the courts to ensure that the law is as expansive as possible and to ensure that we do not create a scenario in which certain behaviours from those with mal-intent in relation to the Bill are excluded from its scope. I agree that we should allow the courts to do their job with the broadest possible powers to prosecute offences under the Bill. I echo my hon. Friend’s comments to the Minister about the need for the inclusion of details about these issues in guidance and codes of practice, but I thank the Committee for an extremely useful and productive discussion.

[Dr Tidball]

I am grateful for the thorough and thoughtful discussion that we have had from Members on both sides of the Committee Room. I am pleased and reassured that we have that discussion on record, so that those looking at the work that we have done in this Committee will understand the depths and levels at which we have thought about these important concepts in this space and the extent to which we have challenged and checked Ministers in making sure that they understand our concern about these provisions being properly put in place. I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Lowestoft for her important input, which I hope will be reflected in the training.

I am glad that we have come this far and that we have a level of unanimity across both sides of the Committee Room. That is a nice point to reach as the Committee comes towards the end of its journey, and it reflects the essence and the intention that were so evident on Second Reading. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

[Kim Leadbeater]

I beg to move amendment 392, in clause 40, page 23, line 27, at end insert—

“‘first assessment’ has the same meaning as in section 7;

‘first declaration’ has the same meaning as in section 5;”.

This is a drafting change.

Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-seventh sitting)

Debate between Marie Tidball and Kim Leadbeater

Committee stage
Wednesday 19th March 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Kim Leadbeater]

That is very helpful indeed. In that case I am very pleased to support amendment 523 in the name of the hon. Member for East Wiltshire as well. I am also minded to support amendment 394 in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford, which I think is very sensible, like his other amendments that I have supported. I am not sure that amendment 534 in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich is entirely necessary, but I fully understand the sentiment and therefore I am minded to support that amendment as well.

That brings me on to the final amendment, 448. I wanted to support this amendment, but I have taken on board the Minister’s comments on the lack of clarity about what it means to be registered and qualified. As such, I cannot support that amendment this evening, but I think we could look at coming up with something on Report that would achieve the objective that my hon. Friend the Member for York Central intended.

Amendment 447 agreed to.

Amendment made: 394, in clause 30, page 18, line 24, at end insert—

“(ba) the provision of information and support to persons with learning disabilities who are eligible to request assistance to end their own life under this Act, including the role of advocates for such persons;”—(Daniel Francis.)

Amendment made: 416, in clause 30, page 18, line 25, leave out paragraph (c).—(Jack Abbott.)

This amendment is linked to Amendment 417.

Amendment made: 430, in clause 30, page 18, line 30, at end insert—

“(da) responding to unexpected complications that arise in relation to the administration of the approved substance under section 18, including when the procedure fails;”.—(Daniel Francis.)

[Dr Tidball]

I beg to move amendment 517, in clause 30, page 18, line 30, at end insert—

“(da) arrangements for a qualifying person requesting assistance to end their own life to receive the support of an independent advocate under section [Independent advocate].”

This amendment would add arrangements for a qualifying person to receive the support of an independent advocate (NC25) to the list of matters that codes of practice may be issued on.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kim Leadbeater]

My hon. Friend the hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge has made a powerful and passionate case for the provision of independent advocates, and, as always, has done an outstanding job of advocating for people with disabilities, including learning disabilities, mental disorders and autism, as she has done throughout this entire process.

It is essential that anybody considering the choice at the end of life made possible by this Bill should fully understand the nature and consequences of any decision they may make. These amendments have made me reflect on comments—I think made by the hon. Member for East Wiltshire a few weeks ago—about the purpose of the Bill. He proposed that the Bill is either about choice and autonomy or it is about safeguards. Actually, this group presents very clear evidence that it is and must be about both, and I hope he can support the amendments.

I take on board the Minister’s comments. I heard an element of caution from him, and I am happy to work with the Government and my hon. Friend the Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge if there are any further requirements prior to Report stage, but I am very happy to support the amendment and the new clause.

[Dr Tidball]

I am grateful for the support of my hon. Friends the Members for Spen Valley and for Bexleyheath and Crayford. It sounds that I may also have the support of the hon. Member for East Wiltshire, which also makes me very happy at this stage of the evening!

I tabled these amendments because I passionately believe in inclusive healthcare for disabled people, removing barriers to such healthcare where possible, and ensuring that disabled people have a strong voice in advocating for themselves and the healthcare they need or desire. I have tried to write the amendment and the new clause to ensure that access to an independent advocate operates across the functions of the Bill. I have been keen to ensure that this provision acts in conjunction with new clause 27, which I will speak about at a later stage. I hope, as I said in an earlier response to the hon. Member for East Wiltshire, that that will provide a solid and robust opportunity to monitor the impact on disabled people of the Bill, if it does pass through Parliament, through its implementation and in practice. Taken together, the measures will create a solid foundation to enable disabled people to have a voice and will provide a strong structure for accountability in the Bill.

I acknowledge the Minister’s comments, and will work with him and my hon. Friend the Member for Spen Valley to ensure that it is watertight.

Amendment 517 agreed to.

Amendment made: 534, in clause 30, page 18, line 30, at end insert—

“(da) the forms of proof of identity that are acceptable for the purposes of section 6.”—(Jack Abbott.)

Amendment made: 523, in clause 30, page 18, line 31, leave out paragraph (e) and insert—

“(1A) The Secretary of State may issue one or more codes of codes of practice in connection with any matters relating to the operation of this Act not required under subsection (1) as the Secretary of State considers appropriate.”—(Danny Kruger.)

This amendment, which works together with Amendment 447, would clarify that the Secretary of State is not required to issue a code of practice under subsection (1)(e) but instead has the discretionary power to issue further codes of practice as the Secretary of State considers appropriate.

Amendment made: 417, in clause 30, page 18, line 32, at end insert—

“(1A) The Secretary of State must, within six months of the passing of this Act, issue one or more codes of practice in connection with the arrangements for ensuring effective communication in connection with the provision of assistance to persons in accordance with this Act, including the use of interpreters.”—(Jack Abbott.)

This amendment is linked to Amendment 416.

Amendments made: 216, in clause 30, page 18, line 37, leave out subsection (4).

See the statement for Amendment 188.

Amendment 217, in clause 30, page 18, line 38, leave out “that procedure” and insert “section 39”.—(Kim Leadbeater.)

See the statement for Amendment 188.