Online Safety Bill

Debate between Maria Miller and Julian Knight

Report stage
Monday 5th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Julian Knight]

My right hon. Friend is correct. We spoke privately before this debate, and he said this is almost five Bills in one. There will be a patchwork of legislation, and there is a time limit. This is a carry-over Bill, and we have to get it on the statute book.

This Bill is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and I take the Opposition’s genuine concerns about legal but harmful material. The shadow Minister mentioned the tragic case of Molly Russell. I heard her father being interviewed on the “Today” programme, and he spoke about how at least three quarters of the content he had seen that had prompted that young person to take her life had been legal but harmful. We have to stand up, think and try our best to ensure there is a safer space for young people. This Bill does part of that work, but only part. The work will be done in the execution of the Bill, through the wording on age verification and age assurance.

[Dame Maria Miller]

Given the complexities of the Bill, and given the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee’s other responsibilities, will my hon. Friend join me in saying there should be a special Committee, potentially of both Houses, to keep this area under constant review? That review, as he says, is so badly needed.

[Julian Knight]

I thank my right hon. Friend for her question, which I have previously addressed. The problem is the precedent it would set. Any special Committee set up by a Bill would be appointed by the Whips, so we might as well forget about the Select Committee system. This is not a huge concern for the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee, because the advent of any such special Committee would probably be beyond the next general election, and I am not thinking to that timeframe. I am concerned about the integrity of Parliament. The problem is that if we do that in this Bill, the next Government will come along and do it with another Bill and then another Bill. Before we know it, we will have a Select Committee system that is Whips-appointed and narrow in definition, and that cuts across something we all vote for.

There are means by which we can have legislative scrutiny—that is the point I am making in my speech. I would very much welcome a Committee being set up after a year, temporarily, to carry out post-legislative scrutiny. My Committee has a Sub-Committee on disinformation and fake news, which could also look at this Bill going forward. So I do not accept my right hon. Friend’s point, but I appreciate completely the concerns about our needing proper scrutiny in this area. We must also not forget that any changes to Ofcom’s parameters can be put in a statutory instrument, which can by prayed against by the Opposition and thus we would have the scrutiny of the whole House in debate, which is preferable to having a Whips-appointed Committee.

I have gone into quite a bit of my speech there, so I am grateful for that intervention in many respects. I am not going to touch on every aspect of this issue, but I urge right hon. and hon. Members in all parts of the House to think about the fact that although this is far from perfect legislation and it is a shame that we have not found a way to work through the legal but harmful material issue, we have to understand the parameters we are working in, in the real world, with these companies. We need to see that there is a patchwork of legislation, and the biggest way in which we can effectively let the social media companies know they have skin in the game in society—a liberal society that created them—is through competition legislation, across other countries and other jurisdictions. I am talking about our friends in the European Union and in the United States. We are working together closely now to come up with a suite of competition legislation. That is how we will be able to cover off some of this going forward. I will be supporting this Bill tonight and I urge everyone to do so, because, frankly, after five years I have had enough.

No Confidence in Her Majesty’s Government

Debate between Maria Miller and Julian Knight

Wednesday 16th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Julian Knight (Solihull) (Con)]

As ever, it is a huge pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas). We have heard a lot about polls today. I will give the House a couple. We all know the figures of 52% and 48%, and it is intrinsic and behoves the House to respect the referendum result, but another figure is 34%, which is the current polling for the Labour party. That is quite incredible at this time. The reasons for that figure were encapsulated by the hon. Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock), who said that the shadow Chancellor and the Leader of the House are simply unfit for high office. As people get closer to the potential of a buy-in decision, they will see that very starkly indeed. The other reason for the 34% polling is the six tests—the magic unicorn tests—which are designed to fail. The public are not foolish and they are not going to be hoodwinked. They know intrinsically that the six tests are sophistry of the most politically contemptible sort. At some point—later today, or tomorrow—the grown-ups will have to have a conversation about what the Opposition actually want.

[Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con)]

What people and businesses in Basingstoke tell me is that they want certainty. How can they get certainty when there are challenges in the Government, and Parliament rejected the Government’s plans yesterday?

[Julian Knight]

Certainty is all. I will be speaking about that in the Adjournment debate later—Jaguar Land Rover wants certainty, too. It is a little rich when people talk about the rights of EU citizens and UK citizens and then reject a deal that would protect those rights.

A second referendum would be a stain on this Parliament. The division would be enormous, and we have been entrusted. No deal makes no sense to me with the dislocation that it could cause to our economy. People talk about stockpiling, emergency provision and so on, but the reality would be what happens when the stocks run out or if we end up with dislocation. What happens if we then have to go to the EU and negotiate certain terms at that point? We would be in a very weak position. Both those options are out, so we have to come together sensibly.

Despite this stunt today—we will see Members filling up their Facebook pages with how many different times they can say different words to link in with their Momentum groups—it is time for sensible, grown-up people to face the consequences of the circumstances we are in. That is what the public want. They do not like this spectacle at all.

Let me look at the achievements of this Government. In 2010, we inherited a deficit at 11% of GDP. Let me be clear to the House that that is such an enormous sum that it cannot be borrowed for very long. Eventually, the markets call in the loans and the country ends up having to pay such a high interest rate that the economy ends up in a depression.

We, as a Government, had to sort that out, but we did it while protecting the NHS. We have announced an increase in NHS spending that is twice the level that Labour proposed at the 2017 general election. Not everything is perfect in that respect, and there are issues, but we are trying to solve them. When it comes to the big matter of the economy, however, to jobs, to healthcare, to the 1 million kids in better or outstanding schools, the Government are delivering. We have to get through Brexit and then we will deliver more.