Worker Protection (Amendment of Equality Act 2010) Bill

Maria Caulfield Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 23rd November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Tulip Siddiq]

I agree with the hon. Lady. The truth is that this is about culture change—and legislative change. I am grateful for the Bill because it empowers employers to take their duty of care to their employees seriously. Employees will respond by returning increased profits, productivity and motivation, so it will help the workforce economically as well—for anyone who doubts the importance of such measures.

The Bill on its own will of course not achieve the transformation that all workers need. This is not a silver bullet—I am sure the hon. Member for Bath agrees—because much more remains to be done. The Labour party is committed to creating safe, equal and fair workplaces where everyone succeeds, regardless of their gender or background. Among other things, the Labour party has been working on its new deal for working people. In that policy, we hope to tackle workplace discrimination and inequalities as a priority.

The Bill sponsored by the hon. Lady is the chance to make some progress right now. We owe that to victims of sexual harassment. Over the years, many of us have said, “Me too!” When the movement emerged, I was so shocked, because nearly every friend I spoke to and every family member turned around to say to me, “Me too!” I wondered whether I had met even one person who had not had that experience. That is a shocking statistic, which I hope we can change as we move forward.

The Bill is what we owe to our workers, present and future, and to our children. It heartens me to see so much cross-party support. Once again, I applaud the hon. Member for Bath for using the opportunity; she could have chosen any topic under the sun, but she chose this topic. I applaud her for championing it.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Maria Caulfield)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley.

I thank all hon. Members present for their forthright support for the Bill, which is echoed by the Government. As the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn, pointed out, in particular we thank male colleagues who have come along and supported the Bill from the start, because that sends a strong message to the country that not only is there cross-party support, but that both male and female MPs support the legislation.

I thank the hon. Member for Bath for sponsoring this important legislation. As has been said, this is just one of many campaigns that she has run to protect women’s rights, especially on violence against women and girls. The Bill is a follow-on to her legacy in that space. Today, she set out clearly that workplace harassment is a pervasive issue, which should not be tolerated in modern Britain.

Sadly, however, as my predecessor referenced on Second Reading, an experimental survey by the Government Equalities Office in 2020 exposed that nearly three quarters of the UK population have experienced sexual harassment in their lifetime, with nearly a third of people in employment experiencing some form of sexual harassment in their working environment within the past 12 months. Those figures are, unfortunately, not surprising.

The Equality Act 2010 already provides employees with legal protection against workplace harassment, but the measures in the Bill take a significant step forward. The Government believe that such a shift will not only provide increased legal security for employees, but instigate wider cultural change by motivating employers to prioritise prevention and, ultimately, to improve workplace practices and culture.

I will shortly address the points made by hon. Members today, but I will first outline the Government’s ongoing commitment to change in this space, and in particular to the measures in the Bill. In 2019, in response to an inquiry by the Women and Equalities Committee, the Government consulted on the legal protections to do with sexual harassment in the workplace. The consultation exercise included a public questionnaire, alongside the technical consultation, and received more than 4,000 responses detailing people’s lived reality of harassment in the workplace, as we have heard so much about.

Listening carefully to the experiences and opinions shared, the Government committed to a package of new measures aimed at reducing incidences of workplace harassment. That includes the two legislative measures being brought forward in the Bill: explicit protections for employees from workplace harassment by third parties, such as customers and clients; and a duty on employers to take all reasonable steps to prevent their employees from experiencing sexual harassment.

Those measures were announced in July 2021 and continue to form a key part of the Government’s national strategy for tackling violence against women and girls. We therefore welcome the fact that the hon. Member for Bath is taking the measures forward in her Bill. In supporting the Bill, we look to honour the commitments that the Government set out last summer and to deliver real change for workers and working culture across the UK.

I want to point out that clauses 2 to 6 are about sexual harassment specifically, but I highlight the fact that clause 1—the employer liability for harassment—will require employers legally to consider harassment risks that third parties may pose. However, that will apply to all types of harassment, not just sexual harassment. It will include racial harassment, harassment in relation to disability or any other type. That is an important step forward as well.

To conclude, I reiterate my appreciation of the hon. Members present today. It is good to see such cross-party support in this space for this new legislation, which we hope will have a profound impact on working culture, and further protect and support employees at risk of harassment in the workplace. Support for the Bill is not isolated to this room, and I also thank the numerous organisations, individuals and parliamentarians who have been involved in the development of the new measures. Those include, but are certainly not limited to, the Government Equalities Office, the Fawcett Society, the Equality and Human Rights Commission and the Women and Equalities Committee. The last of those, along with the Joint Committee on Human Rights, sent a letter in support of the new legislation to the hon. Member for Bath. We hope to see such a collaborative spirit maintained as the Bill continues its progress through Parliament. Personally, I look forward to working with the hon. Lady to ensure that it does.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 2 to 6 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

Before I put the final question to report the Bill to the House, I offer the sponsor of the Bill the opportunity to say a few thank yous.

Worker Protection (Amendment of Equality Act 2010) Bill

Maria Caulfield Excerpts

Consideration of Lords amendments
Friday 20th October 2023 Commons Chamber

[Justin Madders]

Yes, that is absolutely right. The Equality Act is framed in such a way that it protects everyone from harassment on the basis of their sex. I think that we now have a Bill that, after the amendments, to our regret will not protect workers from third-party harassment. The duty to take all reasonable steps has now been reduced or watered down to taking reasonable steps. We are disappointed that the Bill returns in a form that looks very different from what was originally passed by this House. It seems that the original good intentions of the Bill have—to use the terms of the hon. Member for Devizes—been “gutted”, and I am sorry to say that seems to have been with the support of the Government. Let us not forget that, when the Bill passed through the Commons originally, it did have support from the Government and it also had cross-party support, which is a rarity these days. Therefore, it is extremely disappointing that the democratically elected House seems to have given in to the unelected Lords, seemingly with the endorsement of the Government.

I have to say that the Government’s decision to support the Lords amendments that have taken the guts out of the Bill is frustrating, given that the Bill was enacting pledges that the Government had made.

[The Minister for Women (Maria Caulfield)]

Does the hon. Gentleman not recognise that this is the Bill of the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) and it is up to her to decide which amendments she does or does not accept? The Government have fully supported the hon. Lady. This is not a Government decision; it is part of the parliamentary process.

[Justin Madders]

I thank the Minister for her comments. The Government have a majority, so if they wanted to keep the Bill in its original form they could have ensured that it passed. Let me quote what she said at Committee stage. She said that

“the Government committed to a package of new measures aimed at reducing incidences of workplace harassment. That includes the two legislative measures being brought forward in the Bill: explicit protections for employees from workplace harassment by third parties, such as customers and clients; and a duty on employers to take all reasonable steps to prevent their employees from experiencing sexual harassment.”––[Official Report, Worker Protection (Amendment of Equality Act 2010) Public Bill Committee, 23 November 2022; c. 10.]

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders]

No, that is not what I want, which is why I have said that we will not oppose the amendment, but we are still entitled to express our disappointment about the capitulation. The Equality and Human Rights Commission’s 2018 report found

“a quarter of those reporting harassment saying the perpetrators were third parties”

and that third-party sexual harassment was dealt with poorly and considered

“a ‘normal’ part of the job”

by some employers. I do not think that is a situation that we should defend. Let us be clear: we would not have objected to the Bill if that had been in place—we certainly would have supported it—but we will support it as it stands because, as the hon. Member for Bath said, it is an important step in the right direction, albeit a much smaller step than originally intended.

The question remains: what is the Government’s plan to deal with third-party harassment? If they will not bring forward a legislative solution, what do they intend to do? If there were a repeat of the scenes at the Presidents Club tomorrow, what would be the consequences for the perpetrators? We need answers to those questions.

Despite the removal of the word “all” from the Bill, the duty to prevent sexual harassment is, as the hon. Member for Bath said, a new duty that represents a positive step forward. Establishing that preventive duty will shift the emphasis away from a reliance on individuals reporting harassment to employers and will encourage employers to take preventive steps. We are optimistic—we can be—and hope that the Bill will drive structural change by fundamentally shifting the responsibility from the individual to the institution, but what that will mean in reality and how much capacity the EHRC will have to investigate complaints remains to be seen. Its responsibility to create a statutory code of practice should mean that the focus will be more on working with employers. Does the Minister have any information on when she expects that statutory code of practice to be published, should the Bill be passed, and will it draw mainly from the non-statutory code of practice that has already been produced?

We believe that everyone should be able to go to work safe from sexual harassment, knowing that their employer has taken steps to create a safe working environment. That is why a Labour Government would go much further than the House has today.

[Maria Caulfield]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) on progressing this Bill, which tackles the important issue of sexual harassment in the workplace. I thank her for the pragmatism she has shown to ensure that the Bill can progress with agreement from across the House. It is slightly disappointing to see the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders), take such a partisan approach, because the Bill has had cross-party support throughout all its stages.

It is often very difficult for private Members’ Bills to pass through this place, but the Government have fully supported the Bill, because it is such an important issue to tackle. We have especially made time for an additional sitting Friday, to ensure that the Bill passes. We remain committed to tackling sexual harassment in the workplace by introducing the employer duty, to strengthen protections in the Equality Act 2010.

While I note the concerns from my hon. Friends the Members for Southend West (Anna Firth) and for Devizes (Danny Kruger), I am very pleased that consensus has been reached here and in the other place, and I hope Members will agree that this important Bill should now be on the statute book. I would like to particularly thank my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes, who has some genuine concerns about the Bill that he has expressed today and at previous stages.

This is a difficult subject. While there may be differences in views and opinions, I am really pleased that the hon. Member for Bath has been able to progress the Bill through both Houses, because we need to make our workplaces better and safer. That is particularly true for women. We have heard recently about some of the experiences of female surgeons in the healthcare system. With my other hat on as a Health Minister, I am particularly pleased that this legislation will hopefully prevent some of those experiences in future.

I turn to the Lords amendments. Lords amendment 1 leaves out clause 1, to remove the proposed liability of employers for third-party harassment in the workplace. I am glad to hear that the amendment to remove this third-party harassment liability eases concerns that it could have had a chilling effect on free speech in the workplace. I am pleased that that has been addressed. There are some—I know the hon. Member for Bath is one of them—who are disappointed that the amendment has removed the third-party harassment liability, for very valid reasons, but this is about getting a compromise, so that we get the majority of the measures in the Bill through this place.

The Government believe it is important that workers are protected against this form of harassment, and good employers are already taking steps to ensure that their employees are protected from harassment by third parties, regardless of the legal position. However, to progress the Bill, we have had to be pragmatic, acknowledge the complexities at play and find a suitable balance. While we want to strengthen protections, we also do not wish to infringe on individuals’ rights to freedom of speech. Everyone has the right to their views and to debate them just as we are doing today, respecting others’ views in the process. The aim of the Bill is to tackle workplace harassment and not limit people’s freedoms. It is important to remember that, despite the removal of the third-party harassment provision, the Bill will still introduce a new duty on employers to take reasonable steps to prevent sexual harassment.

The Government’s priority is to ensure that the legislation works effectively. We have consistently consulted with a wide range of stakeholders and have listened to all their views. As my hon. Friend the Member for Southend West has consulted with her chamber of commerce, the Government have done so more widely. When concerns regarding the potential chilling effect on free speech were first raised as the Bill progressed through the Commons, the Government took on board those issues. It was feared that employers may take unreasonable or drastic measures to avoid liability for harassment of their staff, particularly by third parties, to the extent that they would feel obliged to shut down conversations in the workplace. While employers will be expected to take action against workplace harassment, we recognise that those actions should fall short of prohibiting conversations. Free speech is crucial to our way of life, and it is important that we found a way forward.

With over 40 amendments tabled to the Bill in the other place following its Second Reading on 24 March, even after the Government tabled their amendment, it was clear that there remained concerns that the Bill would still have a chilling effect on free speech. The Government took those amendments very seriously, as they were fatal to the Bill. In our engagement with stakeholders and peers, we heard the strong concern, particularly about the third-party harassment issues, so we were eager to find a balance and a way forward for the Bill to reach the statute book with cross-party support. Therefore, the Government have been pragmatic and alive to the issues raised, and consensus was reached with peers by removing all but two of their amendments. The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston, did not comment on the other amendments—over 38 of them—that we managed to get removed.