Digital Economy

Debate between Margot James and Stephen Doughty

Monday 17th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[Margot James]

I follow my hon. Friend’s logic. That was the conclusion that Ofcom reached. It is definitely worth considering the recommendation that he and my hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Vicky Ford) have made on reviewing the law on viewing pornography in a public place.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am sure that there is consensus across the House about protecting young people under the age of 18 from illegal or inappropriate material. What steps are being taken to ensure that, in any of the regulations or any of the wider efforts the Government are taking, we do not accidentally prevent young people from accessing age-appropriate material about sex and relationships education? I am aware of material for young lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people on YouTube and other platforms that has been erroneously caught up in age filters and other restrictions. That prevents young people from finding out in a healthy and age-appropriate way about their sexuality and the key things they need to understand as they are growing up.

[Margot James]

The hon. Gentleman makes some very good points. I am aware of some of the cases to which he refers. When I explain the detail of the regulations, it should reassure him that we are seeking to catch the commercial provision of pornography on sites where at least two thirds of the content is of an adult nature. I think that should allay his concerns. However, we should keep the issue he raises closely under review.

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[Margot James]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on the work that he has done while chairing that important body, the UK Council for Child Internet Safety. I have already made clear in my answer to my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke, the Chair of the Select Committee, that we do recognise that these regulations are a first step. Although we have high expectations of what they can achieve, we are fully aware that they do not go as far as to be able to satisfy the vast majority of our concerns where social media platforms are concerned, where the majority of content is not pornographic.

I would like to reassure the House, however, that I do believe that these regulations will be more effective than my hon. Friend fears, because they will cover sites that make pornography available free of charge. As he rightly points out, the majority of young people access pornography without paying for the service. However, if they access it from a site that is predominantly pornographic and is offering a pornographic service on a commercial basis, then, whether it is free of charge or paid for, the regulations will capture both. I would like to reassure him that these regulations will bring into scope the sites about which he is concerned that currently provide these services free of charge.

My hon. Friend will also be reassured to know, when I go on to explain a little more about the actual process of age verification, that it is not simply a matter of being able to offer a credit card. The rigour of age verification provision will be stricter than that. That will also help to counter the growing trend of young people accessing pornography before they attain the age of 18.

[Stephen Doughty]

Further to the comments by my colleague on the Home Affairs Committee, the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton), we have raised a series of concerns with social media companies and other technology companies about access to inappropriate, violent or extreme content, as well as the content that we are discussing today. Will the Minister and the Government look much more closely at peer-to-peer sharing sites like Snapchat and closed messaging groups on Instagram, Kik and other messaging sites? It is my understanding, from speaking to a lot of young people in my constituency, that that is where a lot of this content is. No age verification goes on, and it is simply done in encrypted sharing. Some of it is self-generated content where people are doing revenge porn, sexting and sharing types of images that not only constitute committing an offence because they are creating child pornography, but are well outside the scope of what one would find on a commercial site. Will she reassure us that serious work will be undertaken to look at that area?

[Margot James]

I can reassure the hon. Gentleman that serious work is being undertaken as we speak, as we prepare the online harms White Paper. We are looking at encryption within the context of that White Paper. He will appreciate the difficulties of privacy versus the public need to reduce the exposure of young people to pornographic material. We are looking at this very seriously. We will be bringing forward the White Paper in the new year and will welcome his input on that.

We have set a threshold of 30% to ensure proportionality where material is made available free of charge. Thus there is an exemption for people making available pornographic content on a website where it makes up under one third of that content. This will ensure that websites that do not derive a significant proportion of their overall commercial benefit from pornography are not regarded in these regulations as commercial pornographic websites. Nevertheless, should a website or app be marketed as making available pornographic material, a person making such material available on that site will be considered to be making it available on a commercial basis even if it constitutes less than one third of the total. This is a proportionate way to introduce the new policy.

I am confident that these measures represent the most effective way to commence this important new policy, but our Department will of course keep it under review. Indeed, as I said, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will be reporting on the regulatory framework within 12 to 18 months of commencement of the regulations. In addition, as I just mentioned in response to the hon. Gentleman, the forthcoming online harms White Paper will provide us with another opportunity to review the wider context of this policy.

In conjunction, we have laid two pieces of British Board of Film Classification guidance—first, on age verification arrangements and, secondly, on ancillary service providers. The first piece of guidance sets out the criteria by which the BBFC will assess whether a person has met the requirements of section 14 of the Digital Economy Act 2017 to ensure that pornographic material is not normally accessible to those under 18. The criteria mandate four things: an effective control mechanism at the point of access to verify that a user is aged 18 or over; strict requirements on age verification data; a requirement to ensure that revisits to a site do not permit the bypassing of age verification controls; and the prevention of non-human operators—for example, bots—from exercising the age-verification regime.

Tesco House, Cardiff: Job Losses

Debate between Margot James and Stephen Doughty

Wednesday 19th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Margot James]

I do not think I would go as far as to condemn that, because I believe Tesco made every effort to inform people on a one-to-one basis. Some people were away. [Interruption.] If I am wrong about that, I apologise, but the information I have had is that Tesco did make every effort. Some people were away; it did contact them. It is appalling that some people found out about this on social media—and the situation in the Chamber lighting-wise has slightly thrown me off.

I know that the fact that retail is highly competitive and buoyant will be of little comfort to Tesco workers at the Cardiff customer engagement centre who are facing an uncertain future. Every collective redundancy situation involves individuals, and their needs need to be managed carefully. It is vital that individual workers receive the information and support that they need, as and when they need it. This Government and the Assembly in Wales stand ready to provide every possible support to the hon. Lady’s constituents and those of other Members representing the Cardiff area. I wish them all the very best in their search for new employment if the redundancies go ahead.

[Stephen Doughty]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I apologise for the unusual nature of this point of order, just before the question is put. Have you or Mr Speaker had notice of any statements, written or otherwise, to be made tomorrow by the Secretary of State for Transport relating to crucial decisions in Wales on St Mellons parkway station in my constituency and to the worrying rumours about rail electrification in south Wales?

Draft Trade Union Act 2016 (Political Funds) (Transition Period) Regulations 2017

Debate between Margot James and Stephen Doughty

Wednesday 25th January 2017 General Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Margot James)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Trade Union Act 2016 (Political Funds) (Transition Period) Regulations 2017.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. During the passage of the Trade Union Act 2016, the House debated at length the principle that union members should make an active choice to contribute to a trade union’s political fund. The other place established the Select Committee on Trade Union Political Funds and Political Party Funding, under the chairmanship of Lord Burns. I would like to start by thanking Lord Burns and all the peers who sat on that cross-party Committee for their work.

I want first to remind hon. Members why the Act’s reforms to political funds are important. Under current legislation, a union member automatically contributes to a union’s political fund as part of their union subscription, unless they notify the union that they do not wish to do so. We have debated at length the principle of those rights of union members. The Select Committee also assessed the extent to which unions were, in practice, transparent to their members about the existing choice to opt out of contributing to their union’s political fund.

The Select Committee concluded that there is significant variation in how different unions convey opt-out information to their members. The Government’s analysis of online union subscription forms—the point at which an individual makes their first financial commitment to the union—found that nearly half of unions that have a political fund make no mention of its existence.

The provisions in sections 11 and 12 of the Act meet our manifesto aim to provide a transparent, active choice for union members by allowing new members joining a union to opt into making payments to a political fund. As required by the Act, we consulted the TUC, 24 unions with political funds and the certification officer to seek their views on the length of the transition period.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

First, I declare my proud membership of the GMB. I worked on the Trade Union Act in its early stages in Committee and on Second Reading, along with other Opposition Members. The Minister mentioned the consultation period and the TUC. Of course, the TUC and many individual unions have expressed concerns about the length of the transition period. Though willing to try to comply with the legislation, they have raised very reasonable concerns about the timeframe. Why has that not been taken into account?

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[Margot James]

The hon. Gentleman quibbles about weeks and months. We are approaching the end of January and the measure will not come into force until 1 March, from which point the unions will have 12 months in which to comply.

[Stephen Doughty]

The Minister is being generous in giving way. Unfortunately, she has mischaracterised what many unions have done with regard to planning. The Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers will hold its annual conference on the last Sunday in April. It booked the venue many years in advance and informed the delegates, and they have had to book time off work. USDAW and other unions want to agree the changes in order to comply with the legislation, but they will not be able to do so because the Minister is not willing to move the deadline by a few months. That is absurd.

[Margot James]

I am sorry about the situation that the hon. Gentleman describes at USDAW. Perhaps it could make some progress at the end of April, if that is when its conference will take place. If it is not scheduled to take place until next April, I concede that that is a disadvantage for USDAW. It may have to take other measures, which I have outlined, to consult its members on the necessary rule changes.

The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee noted that the Government had not published a summary of responses to their consultation with unions and the certification officer on the length of the transition period covered by the regulations. I apologise that we were unable to publish a summary of responses when the regulations were laid. We accept that we should have done so. The Committee advised us that it is best practice to publish a summary of consultation responses and we have now done so on gov.uk. The Government believe that the regulations are proportionate and strike the correct balance between the interests of unions and members of the public.

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[Margot James]

Not yet. There are 13 months to go before the due date. The hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough talked about “wholly irresponsible” regulations, and many hon. Members challenged the basis of what we are doing, not just the length of time that we are allowing unions before they must comply with the law. We Government Members feel that if people’s money is directed into a fund that is used for political purposes, they should at least know that, and have a say in whether they want that to happen. There may be a divide between the two parties on this, but I am afraid that we Government Members feel strongly that if people have money taken off them, they should have a say in where it goes, and that is all that the measure ensures.

Mr Stringer, you rightly allowed Members a degree of liberty in going beyond the confines of what we are debating; I shall take advantage of that and challenge the idea that we have taken an ideological position on this matter. I do not for one instant believe that. In fact, our research showed that almost half of the money raised through donations to political funds is, as the hon. Member for Glasgow South West pointed out, devoted to other campaigns, and not Labour party funds. Almost half goes on the sort of good campaigns that he mentioned. It is a complete myth that this is some sort of political attack on the way that the Labour party is funded.

[Stephen Doughty]

The Minister is generous in giving way. She makes the argument that a lot of money goes to other important campaigns, such as the USDAW campaign on stopping violence against shop workers. Let us take the politics out of this for a moment; will she listen to the very reasonable concerns felt by a number of unions about the length of the transition—points echoed by the right hon. Member for West Dorset, a former Cabinet Minister who sits on her party’s Back Benches? He made an important point about the timing, and the impact that the transition period will have on some very reasonable unions that are trying to comply with the legislation.

[Margot James]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention; he made a powerful speech earlier. Of course I noted the comments of my right hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset, and I will give them consideration, but I have made the case—I will not repeat myself—for why we feel that 12 months is acceptable. This comes on the back of an Act that was passed almost a year ago.