Repurposing Russian Assets to Rebuild Ukraine

Baroness Hodge of Barking Excerpts

Tuesday 27th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lammy]

The right hon. Gentleman is right. He is right about the football team we both support—it is not the only thing he is right about, but he is right about that—and he is right that more than $300 billion of Russian state assets have been frozen by our global partners, with £25 billion here in the UK. The central point is that those assets are frozen, so the question is, what are we going to do now?

[Dame Margaret Hodge (Barking) (Lab)]

My right hon. Friend is making a very powerful contribution. I think there is large consensus in the House on this issue. I just want to draw attention to the facts. We actually do not know how much money has been frozen, either Russian state money or money relating to sanctioned individuals. There is a figure I have seen from the Bank of Russia which suggests £26 billion and figures from the Government that suggest £18 billion. Does he not agree that it is imperative the Government should openly tell us how much money has been frozen, who it comes from and where it sits, so that we can follow the money and ensure that justice is done for the Ukrainians in their country?

[Mr Lammy]

My right hon. Friend has been so assiduous on these issues over many, many years. She is absolutely right that we cannot have the necessary quality of debate without transparency. That is what we need. I do not think that that ought to be a matter of dispute between us and the Government; I should have thought that it was something on which we could agree. I hope the Minister will be able to tell us whether those figures can, in a transparent fashion, be put in the Library and made available to the Foreign Affairs Committee, so that we can all work on a common basis.

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[Mr Lammy]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. That has been a standing issue that the official Opposition have taken up. We do think further reform is necessary at Companies House, and we were slightly concerned that that was not supported by the Government in the Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Bill.

[Dame Margaret Hodge]

I too have been provoked, by the intervention from the hon. Member for The Cotswolds (Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown). He was right to say that the reform of Companies House and greater transparency about beneficial ownership are vital, but that will give us information only about companies, as opposed to trusts. Last week Lord Agnew of Oulton, a Conservative peer, successfully moved an amendment that would have provided some visibility in who controls trusts. We know that Abramovich, for instance, has transferred a large amount of his money into trusts controlled by his children, including a daughter aged about nine. If we do not have transparency, we cannot follow the money, and we cannot ensure that the assets of sanctioned individuals are really being held so that they can be repurposed to help the people of Ukraine.

[Mr Lammy]

I am, again, grateful to my right hon. Friend—first for raising the issue of transparency, and secondly for raising the issue of Lord Agnew’s amendment and endorsing the point that has already been made. I hope the Minister will tell us whether the Government might give that amendment some support, so that we can benefit from the satisfaction we should gain from this debate. I recognise that it is an Opposition day debate, and we are using our time as an Opposition to bring these issues to the forefront because it has been many months since the Government said that they wanted to act, but the debate is being held in a spirit of the national interest, and I hope everyone can recognise that.

The question, then, is “Who should pay for Ukraine’s recovery?” The Labour party’s view is that the answer is Russia, and one way of ensuring that this happens is repurposing Russian state assets that have been frozen in the United Kingdom. The Government have said at least since October 2022 that they are supportive of seizing Russian state assets to fund Ukraine’s reconstruction, but in the eight months since, no specific proposals have been forthcoming. From the very beginning of Putin’s invasion, Labour has worked with the Government to ensure that our sanctions framework is as effective as it can be, notwithstanding the issues that have been raised from both Back Benches today.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs (Leo Docherty)]

Let me start by thanking the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) for the tone and substance of the debate, and indeed other colleagues who have participated. We are united in our outright condemnation of Putin’s brutal invasion of Ukraine, which is a fundamental violation of Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty. He drew a moving counterpoint between the terror and destruction of Bucha, and the remarkable appetite and spirit of rebuilding and reconstruction that is a motif of the Ukrainian people. That spirit of courage and determination was on magnificent display last week at our very successful Ukraine recovery conference.

The right hon. Gentleman also mentioned the capacity of Ukrainians’ innovation and their ability to make running repairs on all of their national infrastructure, including, most importantly, their electrical grid. That spirit of innovation and ingenuity will surely see them have a bright future, as and when Ukraine begins the rebuilding effort. That should not wait for the end of any conflict, but should be concurrent with the conflict. That was one of the main messages last week.

The right hon. Gentleman referred to the fact that unity is our greatest strength. The Government agree with that, and thank him and his colleagues very much for the consistent support they have outlined for our common efforts. We are right behind the efforts of the Ukrainians to rebuild their country now. The World Bank has estimated that rebuilding will cost £400 billion. Last week, there was a galvanising effort, where more than $60 billion towards Ukraine’s effort was outlined. It was a remarkable conference in terms of its convening power and the contributions from President Zelensky. As the Prime Minister said:

“Russia must pay for the destruction that they’ve inflicted. So we’re working with allies to explore lawful routes to use Russian assets.”

Those assets will pay for the damage Russia’s invasion has so recklessly caused.

That is also why, on Monday 19 June, we published new legislation to allow us to keep sanctions in place until Russia pays up. We are keeping up the pressure through our sanctions regime, with an unprecedented package targeting over 1,600 individuals, 130 of whom have more than £18 billion frozen. We believe in transparency and in keeping colleagues informed, so I will place an update in the House of Commons Library, showing the total value of assets frozen, to ensure that colleagues have the latest figure.

[Dame Margaret Hodge]

I do not think anybody can quarrel with the words the Minister has expressed, but I would like to urge him into action. Today, Lord Alton of Liverpool is moving an amendment in the House of Lords that would ensure that when somebody is sanctioned, there is a duty on them to disclose all their assets. If they fail to fulfil that duty, the agency could pursue them, as a criminal offence would have been committed, and seize the assets. That is a tiny window that we are opening, which would start to create the reality of seizing rather than freezing assets. Will the Government support that amendment? There will probably be a vote on it within the hour.

[Leo Docherty]

I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for drawing my attention to that amendment. I cannot make a pronouncement on the Government position on it, as I have not read the amendment, but we will observe it and take note.

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[Leo Docherty]

The hon. Member should not put words in my mouth. Details remain outstanding. A discussion is under way within the institution with regard to the focus and the utility of these funds. As and when that is clarified, I am sure that we will be able to keep colleagues updated. I remain grateful to him for his interest.

[Dame Margaret Hodge]

I am extremely grateful to the Minister for giving way again. Before that exchange, he was speaking about the ability of sanctioned individuals to voluntarily give some of their money to the Ukrainians. Can he reassure me, first, that this will not become a mechanism whereby sanctioned individuals can get themselves out of sanctions and continue to launder their money into the UK, and, secondly, that this is not a mechanism that will, in effect, buy them immunity from prosecution should they have committed an offence here in the UK?

[Leo Docherty]

I am very happy to give the right hon. Lady an absolute assurance that it is not a mechanism for circumvention or for granting immunity. It is to ensure that those funds, if volunteered, can benefit Ukrainians.

We are tightening the net on those who are hiding assets in the UK. Under powers to be introduced by the Treasury, individuals and entities designated under our sanctions regime will be legally required to disclose assets they hold in this country. Failure to do so could result in financial penalties or the confiscation of assets.

We will legislate to require those holding assets in the UK on behalf of the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, the Russian Ministry of Finance or the Russian national wealth fund to disclose them to the Treasury. Our action will increase transparency on where those assets are held and limit opportunities for sanctions evasion. Taken together, these new measures mark a further strengthening in the UK sanctions approach against Russia, as Putin and his cronies continue their illegal war and as Ukraine embarks on its counter-offensive. This marks important progress, but I assure Members that our efforts will not stop there.

Many hon. Members will be aware of the active debate with our international partners on the use of sanctioned assets. As the Foreign Secretary and other Ministers have made clear to this House repeatedly, no country has yet found a legally tested solution to turn this commitment into reality at scale, despite various pieces of legislation having been laid or passed by our international partners.

We are at the forefront of a united effort, with our international partners, to see frozen assets repurposed for Ukrainian reconstruction. Nothing is off the table, and a cross-Government taskforce is considering all proposals carefully, including those that our partners may bring forward.

[Leo Docherty]

It is our ambition to find a legally workable route to repurpose Russian assets. As yet, no country has found one. We are working with partners to do so. As the House will appreciate, we must assure ourselves of the safety, robustness and legality of any proposal in this regard. If there is no legality, there can be no utility. That is why we continue to engage with every available option. The process will require creativity and innovation. I assure hon. Members across the House that we will continue to consider every lawful option to use sanctioned Russian assets to rebuild Ukraine.

[Dame Margaret Hodge]

I am extremely grateful to the Minister for his generosity. Can he perhaps explain what the Canadians are doing? It is my understanding that the Canadians have seized the assets. Would he consider being a kleptocratic state or perhaps being an aggressor state, as has been suggested, as concepts that could bring seizing state assets within the rule of law? There are two issues there.

[Leo Docherty]

Our Canadian friends have legislated, but they have not yet found a legally watertight route to seizing those assets. The right hon. Lady speaks about other concepts that are of interest, and we will certainly consider them as we move forward.