Childcare Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting)

Lucy Frazer Excerpts

Thursday 10th December 2015 Public Bill Committees

[Pat Glass]

I absolutely agree, but it is equally important that the children who need access to the best teachers are not pushed out of the system, or not pushed into provision that is not good or requires improvement. I do not know whether the Minister has had a chance to look at the Ofsted report, but the chief inspector of schools clearly says that far too many of our disadvantaged children are not getting access to the best provision and too many end up in childcare settings and schools that require improvement.

If we want to narrow the gap—clearly, we all do—it is not enough for the Government to simply will this. They have to will the means as well as the ends. Admissions is a key factor in making that happen. As somebody who has managed admissions over the years, I know they are tricky, but they came under one of the areas that I managed and quite liked. I understood why parents got really angry if they could not get their child into the school that they wanted. I had a huge amount of sympathy for them. When I managed admissions, I always tried to get a balance between having not too many surplus places but enough to give parents the access that they needed to the schools that they wanted. So I understand how tricky admissions can be.

Parental choice is a myth that continues to be talked about a lot. It is really parental preference, but in far too many cases it is not parental preference that presides, but school choice. Schools make choices about children.

[Lucy Frazer (South East Cambridgeshire) (Con)]

The hon. Lady makes an excellent point: the sentiment is an honourable one. However, has she thought through the practicalities of the issue that she raises? I represent a rural constituency where there may be only one provider. We are operating in a sector in which many nursery providers are private providers. The Bill is permissive; it is not mandatory. People do not have to provide for 30 hours if they do not want to do so. Is not the answer to her point that we need to level up standards and ensure that all nurseries and all schools are good or outstanding? The Government have made significant progress, ensuring that 1 million more students are now getting outstanding or good education. Is not that the answer?

[The Chair]

Order. That is a long intervention.

--- Later in debate ---

[Pat Glass]

The situation is so bad that we need to send out a strong message, which is why I want the amendment included in the Bill.

I will read from the parliamentary inquiry into childcare for disabled children. A parent told us:

“Even now, at age 3, we have only managed to secure 6 hours a week at a nursery, during term-time”.

One said:

“I feel like the 15 hours scheme at the moment is really invented for normally functioning kids”,

but it could be easily turned into something that could help children like hers. Another parent said:

“This is a nightmare. I have tried for a year to find an out of school provider that is suitable for my daughter...and...have not been successful.”

One told us:

“We have contacted every single private childcare provider (childminders, holiday clubs, day care nurseries etc) yet no one is willing to take on a disabled child”.

Another parent said:

“I have tried to access childcare. I contacted many child-minders and had a very negative experience. Some of the things they said were very hurtful and eventually I gave up as it was so demoralising.”

[Lucy Frazer]

In the previous sitting, the hon. Lady highlighted all the risks of creating criminal liability for a parent who might not satisfy the income threshold at a later date. Does the same principle not apply when she talks about criminal penalties on childcare providers?

[Pat Glass]

I am not creating criminal penalties. What I am describing is illegal now, yet it continues. All I want to do is to send out a very strong message in whatever way we can. At the moment, we have is a Bill—if I could find any other way of helping the situation, I would. It is illegal at the moment, and I am not seeking to create anything new.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lucy Frazer]

On a point of order, Ms Dorries. In my reading, the amendment should be to paragraph (h), which starts with the words

“create criminal offences in connection with”.

If the hon. Lady’s amendment were accepted it would create a criminal liability, which she states she does not intend to do. Given that the amendment would not achieve her objective, is it appropriate?

[The Chair]

It is up to the Opposition spokeswoman to request where she wants the amendment to be made. It has been accepted, and it is in order.