Luciana Berger
Main Page: Luciana Berger (Liberal Democrat - Liverpool, Wavertree)
Gregory Barker
I cannot give the hon. Lady a breakdown of that, but I can tell her—[Interruption.] I will happily write with more detail about Nottingham South, but I can say that we helped a large number of people through Warm Front last year. However, we need to do much more than we could possibly achieve under the relatively limited Warm Front programme, which experienced so many troubles when the Labour party was in government. The green deal is going to be transformational and offer not just the very poor but everyone the opportunity to retrofit their homes.
Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)
We have been telling the Minister for months that, to be a success, the green deal must be a good deal. According to calculations confirmed by a spokesman in his Department, if we take the Government’s intended rate of interest—7.5%, which is lower than the highest rate under the impact assessment—a household taking out a green deal of £10,000 would have to pay back around £22,000 over a 25-year period, which is more than double the cost of paying for the measures up front. Does the Minister think that represents a good deal?
Gregory Barker
I do not think there is any division between the hon. Lady and myself in wanting a good deal. We can certainly agree on that, and that is why we have put so much time and effort into this transformational plan. However, the obsession with interest rates alone, to the exclusion of everything else, does not serve her well. I think that the Labour party is actually announcing that it would subsidise interest. That will cost consumers billions and force up everybody’s energy bills. Why do the Opposition not just come clean, say that they are going to subsidise interest and put everybody’s bills up, rather than doing what we are doing, which is coming forward with a progressive market solution?
Luciana Berger
I thank the Minister for that response, but he need refer only to the contributions I made in debates on secondary legislation to know that there are many things in the green deal that we are concerned about, beyond the interest rate. With interest rates so high, there is a great risk that the public will not be interested in the green deal. We know from polling conducted by the Great British Refurb campaign that anything over 6% means that 90% of the British people will just not be interested. Indeed, the Department estimates that the number of homes being insulated next year will fall dramatically. Given that the green deal is meant to launch in October, why is the Minister not doing something about this now, to ensure that consumers really will get a good deal?
Gregory Barker
We are absolutely committed to giving consumers a good deal, which involves a high range of competition, new entrants and more choice. This is not some Stalinist five-year plan; this is a brand new market. It is perfectly valid to suggest that there should be subsidised interest rates, but let us hear how the Labour party is going to pay for that and how much Labour is going to put on consumer bills. We have a proposal for targeted support from the green investment bank, but the hon. Lady’s blanket approach, which does not understand economics, would be very costly for everybody and force up bills for families.