Children and Social Work Bill [HL]

Lord Woolf Excerpts

Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 8th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Woolf (CB)]

My Lords, I want to address Amendment 71, which has my name to it. Noble Lords may be surprised at my intervention in this debate on the Bill at such a late stage when I have perhaps been conspicuous in my absence from earlier stages. I should explain that it is because I am a member of the Joint Committee on Human Rights whose recommendation is that the Bill should contain such an amendment as Amendment 71 that I am making this submission.

The chairman of the Joint Committee, as your Lordships will know, is a Member of the other place and, of course, she cannot therefore speak in favour of the amendment. Noble Lords will have heard what was said by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, and the noble Lord, Lord Lester, in the last few minutes. Quite frankly they have said everything that can be said in support of the amendment.

I also share the regret expressed by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, about not getting the response we expected as a result of the meeting that took place yesterday when we were promised such a response. As noble Lords will appreciate, there are only limited circumstances in which we will be able to come back to this at a later stage. Like the noble Baroness, I regard this as not a mere technicality but a matter of great substance which would substantially improve the Bill if it were included. I suggest that it would be a very positive action if the Government were seen to embrace it. I had the advantage of hearing the debate which took place regarding the amendment in respect of Clause 29. The message which is received by those who peruse what happens is obviously extremely important. When we know that both Scotland and Wales have a provision of this sort, and that those parts of the United Kingdom have found it a benefit, it is very hard to understand why the Government should not welcome this amendment.

Noble Lords have heard about experiences with regard to some legislation. I know of experiences, for example, where a duty to improve the position of women offenders in prison has been taken with marked effect upon the approach which is now adopted. It is recognised that as a group of offenders, women need special consideration. The children we are concerned with in this debate need special consideration. When there is a UN convention which the Government have adhered to and see as a matter of international law which they should take into account, I would like to know why a different view is taken with regard to our domestic law.

To oppose the amendment gives quite the wrong message—not the message which the Government would like to give. When we had our meetings, we were looking for ways in which we could square the circle. My understanding was that the Government were looking at this matter and they were conscious that there could be virtues in the Scottish model. If they were to adopt the Scottish model, then I, for one, would regard that very sympathetically. But as matters stand, I seem to have no alternative but to say that it may be necessary to test the opinion of the House. I hope I can get the reassurance I need to make that unnecessary.