Health and Social Care

Lord Watts Excerpts

Monday 13th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I agree with the hon. Lady that the amount of financial support is important. I gently say to her that her party wants to cut the NHS budget, which would make the situation vastly worse.

The Bill is a vital element of our plans to improve the lives of the frail and elderly and of people with long-term conditions and disabilities, but it is only one element. Other areas that do not require legislation will come together in a plan for vulnerable older people. The plan will consider all aspects of how we look after older people most in need of support from the NHS and social care system. It will look at how our hospitals are set up to support frail and elderly patients, particularly those with dementia, in emergencies. Of course, we must continue to give people with serious needs immediate access to highly specialised skill, but in many cases we could offer better alternatives outside hospital. That would improve clinical outcomes and reduce pressure on A and E departments.

Secondly, the plan will look at primary care—in particular, the role of GPs in supporting vulnerable older people. Active case management of vulnerable people is making a huge difference in some parts of the country and we will look at whether the primary care sector as a whole has the incentives, investment and skills to deliver that. We will also consider the provision of out-of-hours services and how to restore public confidence in them following the disastrous changes to the GP contract in 2004.

Thirdly, the plan will look at the barriers and incentives that prevent joint commissioning and stop people from getting joined-up care. In particular, it will consider the operation of financial incentives in the system, which can act as an unnecessary and counter-productive barrier. The Minister responsible for care, my hon. Friend the Member for North Norfolk (Norman Lamb), who is leading on integration, will announce further practical steps forward later this week.

I intend to announce the plan in the autumn, with implementation from April 2014. It will require a great deal of careful work, ask difficult questions and make tough decisions, but if it leads to more personal, more integrated and more compassionate care, it will stand alongside the Care Bill as an important step forward in reforming the care received by millions of people.

[Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that that can work only if social services budgets are increased? Where will the resources come from to deal with the problems we face, and will there be an increase in social services budgets to pay for the services we need?

[Mr Hunt]

There is currently a difficult environment for public finance, for which the hon. Gentleman’s party bears considerable responsibility. The Labour party has given up on the budget; it says it wants to cut the NHS budget. We say that these changes are possible without cutting the NHS budget and in dealing with the inefficiencies caused when care is not joined up. Taken together, the measures represent more progress in three years than the Labour party made in 13 years. They represent our determination to prepare the country for the consequences of an ageing population.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andy Burnham]

I could not agree more with my right hon. Friend. All over the country, we hear that A and E is under intense pressure. Such is the importance of these services to every community that changes should be made only if there is a compelling clinical case to support them. If clinicians can demonstrate that more lives will be saved and disability will be reduced by changing A and E services, I think every Member should have a moral obligation to support them, but when the changes are financially driven—my right hon. Friend knows this better than anybody, as the Secretary of State has downgraded a successful A and E in Lewisham to deal with problems in another trust—that simply will not do. A and E units in west London, for example, are being closed one after another. That is not good enough, and neither is it good enough in Greater Manchester, where huge changes are planned. These changes must be clinically driven, not driven by finance, which is what we are seeing under this Government.

[Mr Watts]

rose—

[Andy Burnham]

I will give way one last time, before making some progress.

[Mr Watts]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, who is rightly concentrating on A and E units and social care. Does he agree with me that many hospitals around the country are facing a financial crisis, too, where the Government are refusing to fund anything other than consultancies? In my area, that has meant spending hundreds of thousands of pounds to tell us what we already knew—namely, that my hospital is underfunded.

[Andy Burnham]

That is what happens when a market is set up in the NHS, pitting one hospital against another in open competition. That is what is beginning to take hold in the NHS, where the Government waste money on consultants and all the other things that come from bidding for contracts. That is a direct effect of the legislation they pushed through. This reorganisation and the budget cuts I mentioned a few moments ago are providing a toxic mix. This is why for 32 weeks running, the NHS in England has missed the Government’s own lowered A and E target for major units. It really is time that the Health Secretary got a grip on the issue. We hear that last week he was trying to hatch a panic plan to deal with the A and E crisis. That is the reality of what was going on behind this threadbare Queen’s Speech: the Health Secretary was trying to cobble together a plan to deal with the A and E problems, weeks after we had first raised the issue in the House.

We hear of an e-mail leaked by an NHS finance officer which said:

“The SoS would like to announce tomorrow that £300m-400m is being invested to solve the A&E problem. We have spent most of the day trying to hold him off doing this.”

The Health Secretary seems to have forgotten that his powers to intervene were given away by his predecessor. He no longer has the power to mandate the NHS to do what he wants; the NHS can now “hold him off”. I am afraid that he looks weak. He has no response to what is happening to A and E departments. And where is the “£300 to £400 million” plan? It has not materialised. That is proof that when the Government surrendered their powers of control over the NHS, the Health Secretary surrendered his ability to do anything about the problems that we now face.

It is just as bad when it comes to staffing. We hear that nurses’ posts continue to be lost. Nearly 5,000 have been lost since the Government came to power, and according to the findings of a survey published yesterday, nurses fear that further tragedies could happen as a result of staff losses. That should set alarm bells ringing throughout the Department of Health. The Care Quality Commission has said that one in 10 hospitals in England does not have adequate staffing levels. The Health Secretary nods. I am glad that he accepts that, but, again, what is he going to do about it?

I welcome the fact that the Care Bill will contain measures relating to the Francis report, and I will work with the Health Secretary on that, but let us get to the crux of the issue of safe staffing levels, because that is the most urgent problem facing the NHS. The Health Secretary nods again. Let me make him an offer. If he introduces a benchmark—if he specifies minimum staff to patient ratios—we will support him, and the measure will go straight through the House. I shall wait for him to respond to that offer, and to ensure that the recommendations of the Francis report are properly implemented.

I give a cautious welcome to some of the Health Secretary’s measures to deal with health tourism, but let me issue two caveats. First, it is important not to overstate the nature of the problem, and secondly, it is essential for health practitioners not to be turned into immigration officers. In March, when asked how much health tourism was costing the NHS, the Health Secretary said:

“I don’t want to speculate… but… we have heard… it’s £200 million.”

On the same day, the Prime Minister’s spokesman said he believed that the figure was more like £20 million. Perhaps the Health Secretary could account for the difference—or did he just add a zero?