Press Charter

Lord Vaizey of Didcot Excerpts

Wednesday 4th December 2013 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Turner. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset (Richard Drax) for securing this important debate. I have read his fine contributions to our various debates on press self-regulation, so I knew before the debate about his extensive experience as a journalist. He reminded us that he was a journalist for 17 years, so his remarks and his passion should be taken with the utmost seriousness.

I am not entirely certain—it is not in my brief—how many of my hon. Friends present today were winners of The Spectator parliamentarian of the year award, but I offer those who are present and who have won that award my heartfelt congratulations. Although I was at the beginning of the lunch, I was called away to a meeting, so was not present at see them receive their award. This is the first opportunity I have had to congratulate them. In passing, I also welcome the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, my hon. Friend the Member for Grantham and Stamford (Nick Boles). Given that he is going to witness a fellow Minister being beaten up over the next 15 minutes, perhaps this is a respite from the ordeals he has faced at the hands of colleagues over the past 12 months or so.

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Vaizey]

I will finish my last joke before I get on to serious points. The Spectator has led a robust campaign against the royal charter. I am not one of those MPs who rang The Spectator; I have not rung to complain about its coverage of my activities. I recently took part in one of its discussions on the future of technology companies. I cannot quote exactly from memory, but the blog afterwards said something like, “The Minister said the Government was doing a lot in this area, but none of his examples were convincing.” I give way to my hon. Friend.

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

Is the Minister aware that the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, my hon. Friend the Member for Grantham and Stamford (Nick Boles), is very wise when it comes to the question of the freedom of the press?

[Mr Vaizey]

We have certainly noted the Under-Secretary of State’s comments. Unfortunately, I opened the door to that point by referring to his presence.

I shall take the opportunity provided by the debate to discuss the issues raised about the royal charter. It is more than a year since Lord Justice Leveson—Sir Brian Leveson—published his report, which ran to an astonishing 1,987 pages in length and, I think, 5 lb in weight. The report covered a vast territory. It examined the existing self-regulatory structure of the press, as one of its core themes. It set recommendations—to which the Government responded—for, I would say, a reformed system of independent press self-regulation. Let me take this opportunity to remind the House what those recommendations were.

The key elements of the recommendations in the report can be summarised as follows. The first was maintenance of a vigorous free press. The second was having the maintenance of press self-regulation at the heart of the new system that delivers the key principles set out in the report. The third was to have incentives that encouraged the press to use that self-regulation system and created benefits for those who signed up to and followed it. In addition, an independent recognition body should be able to recognise that a press self-regulator was adhering to the principles.

[Richard Drax]

I am going to ask a horribly cruel question. Has the Minister read the IPSO document? I entirely endorse every word of the speech that he is making— it almost sounds like my speech—so I hope that he will conclude at the end that my colleagues and I are right.

[Mr Vaizey]

I have not read every word, but I have examined the principles and been briefed on the matter. To pick up on what my hon. Friend says, we can recognise a huge amount of common ground between us.

The independent recognition body should be able to recognise when a press self-regulator is upholding the principles. By adhering to them, the press can take advantage of incentives. It is important to remember that the recognition body is there, first, to recognise the self-regulator, and then to carry out periodic checks every few years to ensure that the self-regulator adheres to the Leveson principles. It will not be, and was never intended to be, involved in the self-regulation of the press.

[Mr Bacon]

Will the Minister confirm that the Government are willing legally to disadvantage those who will not sign up to their proposals?

[Mr Vaizey]

I would put it another way: the Government would incentivise those who join an independent self-regulator that adheres to the Leveson principles.

All three main parties have agreed that the royal charter is the best way to deliver the recognition body that Leveson recommended. I referred earlier to the fact that I have read all the speeches of my hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset. I was able to point out that he had been a journalist for 17 years, because he mentioned it again in this debate, but let me prove that I have read his speeches: I know that the fact that all three main parties have adhered to the idea of a royal charter will not persuade him, as he said in one of his speeches that when the three parties were agreed, it set alarm bells ringing for him.

[Richard Drax]

The Minister, in typical fashion, took the words out of my mouth. I could not have said it better myself.

[Mr Vaizey]

We are making considerable progress. My hon. Friend has so far said that the speech I am giving could be his, and now he says I am as eloquent as he is.

There has been much concern expressed in the House and in some quarters of the press about the charter damaging press freedom. I recognise that those arguments have been put, but I have to state that the Government do not believe that to be the case. The Government are clear that free speech and freedom of the press are vital; they underpin our democracy. The Government would not seek to implement anything that endangered those fundamental principles. Indeed, the Prime Minister was clear from the outset that he had serious misgivings about taking any action that could infringe free speech and a free press.

[Richard Drax]

I am most grateful to the Minister for giving way so often. The Prime Minister also assured us that there would be no statutory underpinning of the royal charter by law, but there now is. What has changed?

[Mr Vaizey]

My hon. Friend has taken the words out of my mouth. I was going to say that that is why statutory legislation was avoided and why a royal charter was chosen to establish the recognition function instead. It is important to get the point across that politicians will not be able to meddle with the charter on a whim. There are clear safeguards built into the charter to ensure that it cannot be amended unless a very high, strict bar has been surpassed. Any proposed change must be ratified by a resolution of both the House of Commons and the House of Lords, as well as with the unanimous agreement of the board of the recognition panel.

[Richard Drax]

As I said in my speech, what happens if we have a change of Government? We cannot hold future Governments to legislation if they change it. It does not matter whether the fraction is two thirds or whatever it is now; the legislation will be wiped out by one vote, if indeed it was a close call, would it not?

[Mr Vaizey]

The Government went to great lengths to ensure that the royal charter could not be meddled with at will. The statute states clearly that change would need the unanimous agreement of the recognition panel, and that both the House of Commons and the House of Lords must approve a change. Two thirds of Members must agree to the change, as well as the members of the body itself.

[Mr Bacon]

The Minister stated a minute ago that it was not a statute, but a royal charter. Now he says “the statute states”. Does he accept that there is a statutory element?

[Mr Vaizey]

As I said earlier, the Prime Minister made it very clear that statutory regulation of the press was not a road he would ever go down. The recognition body is not a regulator of the press; that is a really important point to get across. The recognition body comes into being through a royal charter, not through legislation.

[Richard Drax]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Vaizey]

I really must make some progress, if my hon. Friend will allow me, because we are coming to the end of the generous time that I have been allocated for responding to the many points that have been put to me—

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

rose—

[Mr Vaizey]

But of course I recognise an old friend.

[Dr Lewis]

On a point of order, Mr Turner, can you clarify, for the benefit of those of us who might like to intervene on the Minister later, how long the debate has to run?

[Mr Bacon]

Plenty of time.

[Mr Vaizey]

I do have plenty of time—that is right—and 1640 obviously refers to the time that the debate closes, rather than to the Stuart period of history referred to earlier by my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg).

It is important to stress that the press royal charter cannot simply be changed by Ministers without recourse to Parliament. That is a very important point. All other charters can be changed or dismantled by the Government of the day without any recourse to Parliament at all. In the case of this charter, safeguards have purposefully been put in place to stop any such meddling.

[Philip Davies]

Will the Minister address the question that I posed in my intervention on my hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset (Richard Drax)? Has public money been used in setting up a recognition panel? If not, will he make a commitment that it will not be, given that even the Secretary of State has admitted that the panel could turn out to be completely redundant?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Vaizey]

It is on the record that a degree of public funding will be required to ensure that the recognition panel is established and able to take applications for recognition, but that is time-limited. I cannot confirm exactly whether any public money has been spent so far, so I will write to my hon. Friend. As far as I am aware, none has been spent so far, but I cannot, on the basis of the note I have been passed, absolutely confirm that.

[Dr Julian Lewis]

The Minister is being extraordinarily generous in giving way. I would like to suggest a way forward by drawing, I hope, a not-too-tortured parallel. We had a vote, which was referred to in the opening speech of my hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset (Richard Drax), on Syria. If that vote had gone the other way, I doubt whether the chemical weapons would have gone, or whether we would have had the deal with Iran. The Government are now claiming credit for those things having happened, even though they were defeated in a vote. Can the Minister see where I am going with this?

[Mr Vaizey]

No.

[Dr Lewis]

Well, it will become clear. I doubt whether we would have had on offer anything like as tough a regime as that constituted by IPSO without what the Government have done up till now. Would it not be an idea to give it a trial and see whether it works? The Government could then legitimately claim credit for having brought it forth, when otherwise it would not have come forth.

[Mr Vaizey]

My hon. Friend tempts me, perhaps uncharacteristically, to claim credit where it might not be due, but I recognise the force of the point that he makes. It is important to stress that the independent self-regulation body that is being set up by the press is welcome. It is also important to stress that it is entirely a matter for the press whether they choose to seek recognition for that body. As I have said, the benefits that come through being recognised by the recognition panel are entirely voluntary. I do not think it is any secret, and I am sure that my Secretary of State has put it on the record, that we are delighted with the progress that the press has made in this area.

I recognise the force of the argument that my hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset has made, but as I say, the charter itself will not play any direct role in regulating the press. It is there simply to recognise and periodically review any independent self-regulator, and when I say “review”, it will not even review the workings of that panel, but will look to see that it still adheres to the principles that are set up—

[Mr Andrew Turner (in the Chair)]

Order.