Church Appointments (Repeal of Discriminatory Provision) Bill

Lord True Excerpts

Tuesday 10th November 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I enjoy bonfire night and am sorry that it is being supplanted by an alien American festival. I have never seen it as anti-Catholic.

I thank the Lord Privy Seal for setting out the purposes of the Bill so clearly. I agreed with almost everything that she said. The purpose is simple. It removes a discriminatory bar which applied to Roman Catholics but not to Scottish Presbyterians such as Ramsay MacDonald and to Jews but not to English Hindus such as my right honourable friend Rishi Sunak. It retains a role for the Prime Minister as the sovereign’s principal advisor on matters relating to the established Church. How far that role should run has attracted different opinions in this very interesting short debate, but, from the point of view of His Majesty’s Opposition, that role is important and should remain.

We have noted that the Prime Minister, unlike Tony Blair, is an avowed Roman Catholic while in office. Boris Johnson was baptised as a Roman Catholic, but confirmed as an Anglican—no doubt to the great spiritual joy of his loving brother in faith, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Manchester. There are, then, fluidities in these matters, but they are relevant only because of the past anti-Catholic and anti-Jewish legislation. With the passage of this Bill, which we on this front Bench support, they will be relevant no more.

That said, I know that some outside the House, and perhaps here, take a different view. They ask, as my noble friend Lord Moylan did glancingly in a typically thought-provoking speech, why politicians who are of no faith or profess other faiths, such as our previous two Prime Ministers, should have a say in critical matters affecting preferment in the Church, but the Anglican Church has been the established Church for five centuries.

The question of the established Church is an issue, as we have heard, that is long dear to many in the Liberal and Liberal Democrat parties and to humanists. Indeed, one of the first uses of the Parliament Act by Asquith was to force the disestablishment of the Welsh Church in 1914. We heard this position adumbrated again, honestly, by the noble Lord, Lord Birt—even though he brooked no intervention on his argument—and the noble Lord, Lord Purvis of Tweed, in his elegant submission. I respectfully disagree with both of them.

There is a role for an established faith at the heart of the nation, as affirmed by the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire, in a thoughtful and very á point—can I say that in the House of Lords?—speech. It was also cogently expressed by my noble friend Lord Wolfson of Tredegar, who told us not only that had he been a target of the legislation we are appealing but of Chief Rabbi Sacks’s strong view on the place of an established faith at the heart of the nation. That was a view shared by the noble Lord, Lord Murphy of Torfaen, from a different perspective in his speech. I agree with them.

However, with establishment comes a core constitutional role for the sovereign as the Supreme Governor of the Church. It is his Church and the bishops are his bishops, as we are all summoned here as his temporal barons. The sovereign’s principal adviser must have the lead constitutional role in advising the sovereign in relation to appointments that lead, potentially, to membership of this House. The leadership of the established Church matters and there is a wider public interest in that.

The role of the Prime Minister, as some have said, used to be wider, and I for one do not rule out that issue being re-examined. Perhaps I can be curmudgeonly for a second, but we should reflect on this. Since the restriction of the Prime Minister’s role by Gordon Brown in 2007, average Sunday attendance has declined by 41% and average weekly attendance by 39%, despite the welcome uptick since the pandemic. In any organisation suffering with humility such losses, there must be legitimate questions about leadership and how it is selected. Bishops, after all, are pastoral leaders. Three times it was said, “Feed my sheep”. Is the present system working to promote leaders who are as keen to nurture our parishes and as effective in increasing the army of the faithful as they are in construing the details of social security regulations?

Why is the present system, however worthy, as my noble friend Lady Bottomley so brilliantly explained, so cumbersome? Recently, the Times reported that there are currently 12 sees vacant, not counting suffragan bishops. Liverpool has been vacant since July 2025 and Bristol since September 2025, although there are interims. Guildford has been vacant since we were all so greatly saddened by the death of Bishop Andrew in March. The process of replacement is advertised to complete next summer. Consultation, as we have heard, is fine, but why must it be so long? Is that conducive to the public good and the good of the Church? Since Catholicism is in the air this evening, it is reasonable to point out that Pope Leo XIV was elected 17 days after the death of his predecessor.

I do not expect the noble Baroness to have the answer to this question this evening, although I would be grateful if she could place a note in the Library, as it is relevant to the question of the role of the Prime Minister. Can she tell the House how many of these delays in new appointments arise because appointments are being held up on a Prime Minister’s desk and how many from other aspects of the Church’s selection timetable?

Like others in the debate, I have strayed a little wider than the central simple point, which is removing discrimination and enabling the King’s principal adviser to act. I congratulate the noble Baroness on bringing forward this important piece of legislation. I support the objective she set out. I pray with confidence that Mr Burnham will exercise his role wisely. I ask others to give this short Bill a very fair wind.