Childcare Bill [HL]

Lord Touhig Excerpts

Wednesday 14th October 2015 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Touhig]

2: Clause 1, page 1, line 3, leave out “The Secretary of State” and insert “Every English local authority”

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, Amendment 2 continues the debate we have just had over the funding review and what it means for the delivery of the additional entitlement. It seeks to end the ambiguity in the Bill as to whether responsibility for delivering the additional 15-hour entitlement will be the duty of the Secretary of State—as currently worded in the Bill—or of local authorities. We were unable to secure a firm answer at Committee; in fact, the Minister stated:

“The Government think that it is right for the primary legislation to put the duty to secure the extra 15 hours on the Secretary of State in the first instance, to demonstrate to parents the importance we attach to providing free childcare provision and to give them confidence that the Government will deliver on their manifesto commitment”.—[Official Report, 1/7/15; col. 2114.]

We tabled Amendment 2 to gain further clarity. However, the Government have since tabled Amendment 18, which confirms that the duty falls on local authorities. If this is the case, local councils must be given the appropriate level of support to fulfil their duty. The Government have said:

“We will … look at how we can support local authorities in drawing up agreements between themselves and childcare providers (perhaps by publishing a national model agreement). In addition, we are considering what can be done to smooth out issues around payment arrangements between local authorities and providers.

A full economic impact assessment and new burdens assessment will be carried out in due course”.

The Local Government Association has said that the duty will create further cost pressures on local government and will involve the risks associated with placing additional costs on an already underfunded system. Will the Minister provide an update on what is being done to ensure that local councils will not be out of pocket as a result of being responsible for delivering the entire 30-hour package of free childcare? Again, without seeing the detail of the funding review it is impossible to see how councils fit into the delivery model. I noted from the summary of evidence submitted to the funding review that only 3% of local authorities responded. The Government have committed to an uplift in the average rate that providers receive for the entitlement. The current proposal is for this to be delivered by councils through the dedicated schools grant. The Department for Education has confirmed that decisions about the size of this rate uplift and the consequent additional funding will be made at the forthcoming spending review, which the Minister referred to in the earlier debate.

On 15 June the Government announced that they are conducting a review of the cost of providing childcare. This follows warnings from providers across the spectrum that the current system is underfunded. I know that the Minister does not agree with that, but it is what the sector tells us. It is vital the Government ensure that the funding rate covers the cost of delivering 30 hours of free childcare to a standard likely to improve children’s outcomes and deliver broader policy objectives on employment progression and social mobility—a point well made in the earlier debate.

An initial look at the government amendments in the group might suggest a concession, as expressed in Amendment 12, but, having removed subsections (4) to (7) with Amendment 12, in Amendment 18 the Government seek to recover ground by giving the Secretary of State a power, as opposed to a duty, to make regulations on how local authorities should discharge their duties. The Government could have made Amendment 18 more palatable if they had used “must” rather than “may”. The “may” in line 2 gives the Secretary of State discretion as to whether to make regulations, although it is difficult to see how the scheme can operate without the use of regulation-making powers.

So it goes on. I am sure many noble Lords will have seen the eighth report of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee published yesterday, already referred to by my noble friend Lady Jones of Whitchurch. It says,

“we are surprised and disappointed that many of our recommendations have not been acted upon. It appears to us that the amendments add very little of substance to the face of the Bill: for the most part they adjust the existing delegated powers by removing some, varying others and adding more, while re-parading many in a new clause”.

It sounds a bit like moving the deckchairs on the “Titanic”. The report also says:

“Although the changes to some delegated powers may give the House a clearer idea of how the powers could be exercised, it remains unclear how they will be exercised”.

What an indictment of a very important Bill which is welcomed all around the House.

Amendments 14 and 16 remove from the Bill the ability of the Secretary of State to criminalise parents. In new subsection (2)(h) proposed in Amendment 18, the Government use their proposed new clause to replace the power in what was Clause 1(5)(k) to create criminal offences. I agree with the eighth report of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee that this is welcome and that the new power is focused only on unauthorised disclosure of official information. But the committee points out that the power is not insignificant,

“as it would enable the creation of an offence sufficiently serious to be punishable by imprisonment for up to two years”.

On Monday, the Times revealed that Facebook, a company worth billions, paid just £4,000 in taxes to the British Crown last year—around £1,000 less than the average British worker pays in taxes and national insurance. It is tax avoiders such as this that should be criminalised, not working parents, who might get a criminal record and face a jail sentence, perhaps for completing a form incorrectly when seeking free childcare.

We will come to the issue of affirmative versus negative procedures for the making of regulations later in the debate, but I believe that this is a matter that we will have to look at in much more detail. In fact, the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee said yesterday in paragraph 10 of its report:

“We draw subsection (2)(h) to the attention of the House, so that it may consider whether the requirement for affirmative procedure only on first exercise of the power affords an adequate level of Parliamentary scrutiny for regulations which create, or alter the statutory ingredients of, criminal offences”.

I hope that the Minister will note those wise words.

Also in this group is Amendment 20A, which will be spoken to by the Liberal Democrats. We strongly support it because we believe that parents on low levels of income and those with multiple jobs need the kind of flexibility that it will engender. I do not wish in any way to take away from the comments that representatives of the Liberal Democrats will make, but I want to make clear that that amendment certainly has the strong support of this side of the House. With those few words, I beg to move.

[Baroness Pinnock]

My Lords, for greater clarity in the debate we withdrew our Amendment 15 and retabled it as an amendment to the new clause in government Amendment 18. Our amendment relates particularly to subsection (2)(b) of the new clause, which is about making,

“provision about how much childcare is to be so made available for each child, and about the times at which, and periods over which, that childcare is to be made available”.

Over the course of the debate on this Bill—on Second Reading, in Committee and again today—we have consistently argued for greater flexibility in the periods of time over which the 15 hours’ additional free childcare can be offered. We have done so for a number of reasons.

Many parents, particularly women, take on two or three jobs in a week to try to make ends meet. In my role as a local councillor I had the difficult task of trying to find new accommodation for a grandmother so that she could move from her council housing to a flat nearer her daughter as the daughter got up at five o’clock in the morning to take on a cleaning job at six and at that time no other childcare was available. I know at first hand what it means for many mothers who are trying to do, for instance, a cleaning job before the school day, something for school-lunch duties in the middle of the day and then another cleaning job at the end of the day. With this Bill we have an enormous opportunity to support those mothers and help them continue in work. That is why I have made what I hope is a strong case for defining more explicitly the flexibility that we are asking for in the Bill, rather than leaving it to vague definitions.

Not only is there the difficulty in the working week for the parents I have described; for all parents school holidays can be a nightmare. This is not just because the children are at home but because these parents are trying to juggle finding childcare for their children at home in the holidays while continuing in their work. Many parents find relatives, but not all are able to find them. The definitions of flexibility that we are proposing to include in the Bill would enable that to happen and would be of great advantage to many parents. Questions from those in the sector have indicated that one facet of the Bill they would particularly like to see is what they call a stretch of the hours over a longer period, not only during a week but also over the school holidays. That would be a tremendous help to many working families. I hope that we will not lose that opportunity.

I shall listen carefully to what the Minister says when he responds to the proposals that we have made. I feel strongly, as do my colleagues, that the Bill should contain a clear definition. It currently does not. If it is not included in the Bill today, we will have to think again about how we can move forward to ensure that it does.

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[Lord Nash]

I assume that is the whole point of the duty. I imagine that the answer to that question is yes.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this very short debate. In response to Amendment 2, the Minister agreed that local authorities were best placed to deliver the additional childcare. It begs the question why the first four words in Clause 1(1) were ever in the Bill in the first place—but that is another matter. I received some reassurance on Amendments 14 and 16, although I am still not entirely convinced. However, we have done our very best to try to improve the Bill on these matters and it is time to cede responsibility for improving the Bill—certainly as far as Amendments 2,14 and 16 are concerned— to those who legislate in the other place. I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 2.

Amendment 2 withdrawn.

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[Lord Storey (LD)]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 3 and 23. I find this debate a little frustrating. My noble friend Baroness Pinnock is right when she says that it is not just about care, but about educational experience: for instance, the importance of play. It is not about the type of provision or the amount of time we spend talking about costs. If the Government are going to invest—and are investing—huge amounts of money, it is important that we get the quality right. The best way of guaranteeing that quality is by the people delivering it.

I am sorry to disagree with the noble Baroness, but qualifications are not—and should not be—tick boxes. Qualifications are about a body of understanding and practice that one has to go through. It is hugely important that people working with young children know about child development. Notions that one is working with children but has no understanding of how children develop are anathema to me. Yes, it is hugely important that the assistant understands the importance of play and that the setting has an understanding of some of the special needs issues. It is not about ticking boxes but making sure that people have the qualifications.

The people who used to work in nurseries were of course called nursery nurses. They were highly regarded and highly trained, and resented it when, suddenly, nursery nurses were done away with and became level 3s —or perhaps level 4s. Level 3 is not a particularly onerous qualification to get; one can do it in 12 months or over two years. I hope that we stick our mast firmly to the top of our nurseries and say, yes, we want the people working there to have the right qualifications.

Of course, there are some wonderful people working in playgroups and helping out in nurseries who do not have these qualifications, but for goodness’ sake—we asked for a commission to look at this issue, and the Nutbrown commission spent a lot of time working on this. It said, “Yes, they should be at level 3”. Should we just ignore that and tear it up? No, we should not. We should make sure that quality is at the heart of the provision. Finally, we should also make sure that the leadership of those nurseries is of the highest calibre.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for the very helpful meeting he held yesterday, when we had the opportunity to explore a number of issues that have exercised us throughout the passage of the Bill, in particular, the outline of the funding review.

Amendment 11 in this group was much in my thoughts after our meeting and the presentation. I fear that the funding review’s progress and the conclusions it will reach may well be a threat to the existing staff- child ratios, which would be a retrograde step were it to happen. Of course, because the Government, sadly, seem determined to put the cart before the horse—passing legislation through your Lordships’ House and telling us afterwards how it will be funded—I feel I have every reason to be concerned.

Amendment 11 goes to the very heart of the standard of education and childcare that parents can expect, especially those with special educational needs children. While I am the first to recognise that there are many good educators in the childcare education sector who themselves have no formal level 3 qualification—a point well made yesterday by the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth of Breckland—that does not mean we should not seek to do something about that and ensure that everybody has the appropriate qualification. The simple fact is that no one leaving education today will have a job for life. Everyone will have to retrain and upskill in their working lives. If we do not recognise that by ensuring that the first learning and educational experience a child receives in its life is delivered by someone who themselves has been well trained, we start at a disadvantage.

We must be bold in our ambition for our children, and Amendment 11 is surely the foundation of that ambition. That is why we on this side strongly support it.

[Lord Nash]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 3, 5, 11 and 23 regarding the quality of childcare to be delivered under the Bill, staff to child ratios, the workforce, and provision for children with special educational needs. I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Massey, Lady Tyler and Lady Pinnock, and the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, for highlighting the importance of high-quality childcare and, in particular, the skills and qualifications of the early years workforce, including for children with special educational needs and disabilities.

I reassure noble Lords that we all want childcare that meets the needs of working parents and their children, including those with special educational needs. I have listened carefully to the debate this evening and I completely agree with the points that have been made about the importance of the quality of childcare and its impact on child development. I reassure the House, and particularly all those who have contributed to this debate, that the quality of early education and childcare and the welfare of children remains paramount.

All childcare must be delivered in a safe, secure and welcoming way that contributes to a child’s welfare and their development. The Government believe that the extended entitlement needs to supplement and complement the current early education entitlement. It will need to provide positive and stimulating experiences for children, and staff will need to have the right skills and knowledge to deliver this care. There are a number of aspects to these amendments, each of which I will address in turn.

First, the amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, seeks to extend the existing ratios for the current 15-hours early education entitlement to the 30-hours childcare entitlement and to set these out in primary legislation. All early years providers registered on the early years register must meet the early years foundation stage framework requirements for welfare and well-being, including ratio and qualification requirements.

The English childcare system has some of the tightest adult-child ratios in the world. For three and four year-olds in group provision there must be one adult for every eight children. Or, where a person with a suitable level 6 qualification is working with the children, a 1:13 ratio can be used. The existing ratios have been set out in the EYFS since 2008 and we are committed to keeping them. I would like to place on record that there are no plans to change the ratios to deliver the new entitlement. I am very clear about this. The Government consider the current approach of using secondary legislation to be the right one for ratios, as was discussed in Committee. Ratios for all providers are already set out in secondary legislation, and this allows for a quick response if changes are needed to keep children safe and well cared for. I hope I have reassured noble Lords on this point and urge the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.

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[Lord Nash]

My Lords, this group of amendments concerns the regulations made under the Bill, which will be key to setting out the detail of the new entitlement, including who will be eligible and how it will be delivered. Therefore, I understand noble Lords’ concerns about ensuring that they have a proper opportunity to scrutinise this detail.

There was much interest in the regulations in our earlier debates in this House and in the report by the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. The committee concluded that the scope of the delegations and powers under Clause 1 as drafted were too wide. Given the importance of secondary legislation to the Bill, I am in complete agreement with noble Lords and with the committee’s report that it would be appropriate for regulations to be approved by a debate in both Houses. That is why I have brought forward these amendments, which would require regulations made under Clause 1 and extended entitlement regulations to be laid and approved by each House using the affirmative procedure. I hope this will reassure noble Lords that we have listened. I hope the Government’s amendments will be welcomed.

Amendment 27, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, would ensure that a statutory instrument containing regulations in exercise of any power in the Bill would not be made unless a draft of the instrument had been laid and approved by each House; in other words, it would subject regulations to the affirmative procedure each time the regulation-making power was exercised. We believe it is right that initially we should deal with the regulations under the affirmative procedure, rather than the negative procedure as originally planned. However, we do not believe it is necessary to make them affirmative each time.

We need to strike the right balance between the mechanics of the affirmative process—for example, the need to find time in the parliamentary timetable for debates in both Houses, no matter how small the change—and the ability of government to respond efficiently and effectively to support delivery of the new entitlement, should this be necessary. That is why the government amendments in this group envisage that regulations made under Clause 1 and regulations made for the purpose of discharging the Secretary of State’s duty will be subject to a debate the first time the powers are exercised but that subsequent regulations made under the Bill would be subject to the negative resolution procedure.

The exception to this would be in any instances where regulations seek to amend or repeal primary legislation, or in the case of regulations seeking to update the maximum level of any financial penalty set out in the Bill, which would be subject to the affirmative procedure. This follows the precedents of parliamentary scrutiny adopted in childcare legislation or comparable education legislation. The regulations that underpin the current Section 7 entitlement have been subject to the negative procedure since they were introduced in 2008. These have been amended only four times, and each time the changes were subject to a public consultation.

We believe that our approach is the right one. As noble Lords have already heard, we have made great progress since Committee to narrow the scope and clarify the detail of what we will include in the regulations. I also reassure noble Lords that feedback from parents, providers and employers will be taken into account in the development of the draft regulations, and we will wish to draw on the expertise of noble Lords. Furthermore, we have committed to providing a full impact assessment on the extent of the free entitlement, which will be published when we undertake a formal public consultation on the draft regulations in 2016. Following the consultation, we will lay the draft regulations before the House for a full debate before they can be approved and added to the statute book.

I hope noble Lords agree that by the time they are laid, these regulations will have undergone a significant amount of close scrutiny. Therefore, I am confident that we will be able to present a set of regulations to the House that are fair and workable and remain true to the spirit of the Government’s commitment to support and reward thousands of hard-working families. I beg to move.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, I regret very much having to put Amendment 27 before the House but, frankly, the Government leave us no choice. We have seen throughout the passage of the Bill the cavalier attitude the Government have taken—not by the Ministers who have represented the Government in this House, I hasten to add, but by the Government as a whole. In support of that assertion, I quote from the 2nd Report of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, published on 26 June, which says at paragraph 10:

“We note that the Minister said that ‘the introduction of the Bill, with a strong duty on the Secretary of State, sends a clear message to parents and providers about the Government’s commitment’. That is not, in our judgment, a proper use of legislation: the purpose of an Act is to change the law, not to ‘send a message’”.

Earlier, in paragraph 8, the committee says:

“In our view, the Government’s stated approach to delegation is flawed. While the Bill may contain a legislative framework, it contains virtually nothing of substance beyond the vague ‘mission statement’”.

Finally, in paragraph 9 of the report, the committee states that:

“We do not accept the Government’s attempt to dignify their approach to delegation by referring to a need to consult. We of course acknowledge the need for consultation as a precursor to the formation of policy; but this should in our view have followed the well-established sequence of a Green Paper setting out proposals, followed by a White Paper containing the Government’s legislative intentions, and finally the presentation of a Bill”.

There we have it—that spells out quite clearly how the Government should be presenting legislation to Parliament.

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Moved by

[Lord Touhig]

27: Clause 2, page 3, line 17, leave out subsections (4) and (5) and insert—
“( ) A statutory instrument containing regulations under section 1 or section (Discharging the section 1(1) duty) may not be made unless a draft of the instrument has been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament.”

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, I beg to move and wish to test the opinion of the House.

[The Deputy Speaker (Viscount Ullswater) (Con)]

My Lords, I must inform the House that if this amendment is agreed to I will not be able to call Amendments 28 and 29.