Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
Main Page: Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Labour - Life peer)Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Excerpts
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
My Lords, Amendment 5 stands in the name of my noble friend Lord Adonis who is unable to be present this afternoon for personal reasons. He will return for later stages of the Bill.
This is a probing amendment and it is one of a number of amendments in which we seek to engage the Committee in thoughts about how the public-facing aspects of the new bank can be best discharged, particularly in relation to Parliament. The aim of this amendment is to argue that, prior to designation, Parliament should have an appropriate opportunity to scrutinise the articles of association of the bank. It further makes the point that the scrutiny that needs to be done should be done by Parliament, and not simply by the Secretary of State, who is identified in the Bill as having responsibility. After all, we are talking about the document which sets out the various contentious issues in the management of the company, vis-à-vis the interests of the shareholders.
The main purpose of the clause that we seek to amend is to ensure that two key governance constraints are imposed on the bank in a way that is consistent with its status, which, as we know, is that of a Companies Act 2006 company, albeit one whose shareholding is currently owned 100% by the Government. Once those two conditions have been met, the Secretary of State may designate the bank by order. Designation will trigger the application of Clauses 3 to 6, including the power in Clause 4, for the Government to then fund the bank over the long term.
The first condition required for designation is that the Secretary of State should be satisfied that the bank’s statement of objects in its articles of association is drafted in terms that will ensure that the bank engages only in activities that contribute to the statutory green purposes that we examined when debating Clause 1. As is usually the case with a Companies Act company, the bank’s statement of objects frames the duties of the bank’s directors. The specific issue raised in this amendment is that as well as making a statement that the Secretary of State is content that the bank’s green objectives are being met in full, the articles themselves are laid so that Parliament can see them and discuss them.
I accept that the Companies Act structure is flexible and indeed it has allowed the Bank to be established even though the enabling legislation is far from complete. The chair, the noble Lord, Lord Smith, spoke about the bank and his role during the Second Reading debate in your Lordships’ House so we are aware that he is in place, and the bank was launched recently in Edinburgh.
So we have a rather complicated piece of constitutional positioning to get right. On the one hand, the operations of the bank have to be done under the Companies Act, and the institution will have a well understood operational framework to guide it. On the other hand, the body could not exist without government support and government funding, and with that surely comes accountability to Parliament. In effect, our amendment provides a constitutional limitation on the purposes and the range of the company’s activities, which allows Parliament its say, so that directors are directly aware of what the shareholders think. However, I have a few questions for the Minister on the implications that this amendment has for the rest of this clause.
Lord Marland
I thank noble Lords, especially the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, for their words. The Government agree that there must be parliamentary scrutiny of the bank’s statement of objects and particularly in terms of its green purposes as part of the process of designation of the bank. That is why in another place we tabled an amendment to that effect. However, we do not believe that there is a need to separate out the statement by the Secretary of State. I will try to respond to the question asked by my noble friend Lord Brooke on the Secretary of State in a minute because with his years of experience in government—I am playing for time now—he knows far more about this particular thing than I would ever dream of knowing, but I will come to that in a minute.
The Secretary of State is satisfied that the bank’s objectives are consistent with the green purposes because Clause 2(2) already provides that he cannot lay a draft order before Parliament unless he is so satisfied. I am also happy to give noble Lords the commitment that the Government will make available to Peers and to Members of the other House a copy of the bank’s articles of association when the draft order is laid so that all can be made transparent.
The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, asked about the sale of shares. This Government are committed to not selling the relevant shares but, unfortunately, this Government cannot legislate for a Labour Government, for example, if they wished to sell the shares. I am sure the noble Lord knows that better than I do. It would therefore be wrong to try to impose things on future Governments. We will be in power for a very long time, but just in case we are not, the Opposition may choose to change the law if they come to power.
As a general point on outside investment, one of the things I have noticed as I have travelled the world is the clear desire of international companies to come in alongside the Green Investment Bank as co-investors because the integrity of the board that has been set up, its skills and knowledge and the leadership Britain has shown under this Government and the previous one in terms of green credentials and green expertise has meant that we are seen as a centre of excellence. If the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Kelvin, were standing here, I know he would say that there is huge scope for involving international companies to invest in the bank. I really do not think that that is a problem.
I have no idea what the response to the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, is, so, if I may, for once, I shall request the pleasure of writing to him about something which is not to do with cricket. I hope that with that explanation—
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
Before the noble Lord sits down, I should make it clear that I was agreeing with him, as he has played it back to us, that the present Government cannot tie the hands of future Governments. However, my question was deeper than that. It was: why is there so much in this designation clause about the way in which the shareholding is to be managed going forward? The noble Lord has not dealt with that particular point. That was the purpose of my remarks on this section. We have a situation where currently this is a 100% owned company. The Government have made a great virtue of the fact that that is the case and, indeed, we welcome that. In his latest remarks, the Minister has alluded to the fact that the reason that investment may flow into the bank is precisely because it is owned by the Government and the investor community, for whatever reasons, is supportive of the view that it is the Government leading this that gives them the security and the risk reduction that they are looking for. We may come back to this on a later amendment. So why all this stuff about what happens below a shareholding of 50%? We are told in a later clause that the Government are not able to fund the bank if their own shareholding drops below 50%. Does that imply that there is a plan that we have not been told about, or is it just a precautionary measure in the event that terrible things might happen and other decisions are taken?
Lord Marland
I can deal with that immediately. It is a very good point. We have no current intentions to sell this—I absolutely underline that fact. We have no current intentions to do so during this Parliament as long as we are in power. I hope that that very clear statement satisfies the noble Lord. I readily understand that that has to be clear.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
I thank the noble Lord for those additional remarks and for saying earlier in his response that he would lay copies of the articles of association in both Houses when it comes to reviewing the designation process. We look forward to seeing them because they will help considerably.
I am afraid that I cannot respond very positively to the former Secretary of State, the noble Lord, Lord Brooke. I did not pick up this point when I was reading, but I am so completely gender-blind in these matters that I simply read the word as one that described, in a personal way, the Secretary of State for the time being. However, he will have noticed, as we all did, that throughout his response the Minister referred to the Secretary of State as “he”. Perhaps we have a problem that we should all reflect on.
Lord Jenkin of Roding
Perhaps I can help with this question. Since the 1880s, it has been a matter of interpretation of statutes, and I was certainly taught at law school that the male embraces the female. It has therefore always been said that you used the term “he”, which meant, in the appropriate context, “he or she”. The result is that statutes and, presumably, amendments do not need to use the words “he or she” each time. My noble friend will find when he takes advice on this later that it is a well established principle of statutory interpretation, if I may repeat it, that the male embraces the female.
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville
My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend Lord Jenkin of Roding. I was, in fact, previously aware of that. I was raising the question of why the word “she” had suddenly appeared. I did not wish to embarrass the Official Opposition by directing the question at them, so I directed it at my noble friend.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
My Lords, I agree that this is now a score draw. With that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
“(7) The Bank shall set out as part of its investment strategy a target for the leveraging of additional private sector investment by 31 March 2015 and annually thereafter.”
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
My Lords, we have just heard an interesting discussion about what the overall financing arrangements for the bank will be. I was struck by the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Skidelsky, who is not in his place, that effectively the leverage on acquiring some form of loan finance will be about six times and the subsequent leverage by bringing in third-party investment would be a further five times. We are talking about a gap between the funds available within the bank of £3 billion, which is a huge sum, and we are grateful to the Government for finding that cash, but at a cost of £90 billion in terms of growth, jobs and SME support, which one has to bear in mind. So the amendment focuses on what seems to be the only possible way that we will fund support for the bank in terms of its investment by getting co-investment from third parties who might wish to join the bank, having signalled that these were investments that they wished to make.
Our attention was drawn to comments that were made when the bank was opened in Edinburgh the other day, which has also been referred to by other speakers in this debate. Speaking at the opening of the bank’s headquarters in Edinburgh, the Business Secretary said that the Green Investment Bank,
“will leverage private sector capital to fund projects in priority sectors from offshore wind to waste and non domestic energy efficiency, helping to deliver our commitment to create jobs and growth right across the UK”.
The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, Edward Davey said that:
“The Green Investment Bank will help attract the capital required to allow the green economy to blossom, encouraging investors to market and kick-starting low-carbon and energy efficiency projects”.
So the aspirations are certainly there for this to be a very successful operation.
In the wake of the global financial crisis, it is obviously right that any financial institution now has the highest possible levels of transparency, accountability, scrutiny and banking ethics, so this amendment also aims to encourage the bank to publish a strategy in this area and hence to encourage others to add their investments with the bank.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
I thank the Minister for his comments and I share the support shown for the success of the bank. However, I remain puzzled as to how it will make the transformation from the little duckling that is alone to the wonderful swan that I am sure the Minister has in his mind as sailing calmly across the seas of international finance, sucking up investment from wherever it goes, flying off into the sunset with a raft of projects carefully tucked under its wings, and therefore being successful. I do not see that, and we will return to this matter.
Lord Teverson
Perhaps I may ask the noble Baroness about one matter. One of the things that I understand investment banks often do is raise bonds against projects. It is not a question of the recourse of liabilities to them; they raise bonds on the asset value of the project. There are ways of doing it in that way.
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville
I encourage the Minister to try to turn not a duckling, but a cygnet, into a swan. A cygnet, in banking and legal terms, would have a greater significance than a ducking.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
Perhaps I may respond. Since I joined your Lordships’ House, I have always been impressed with the noble Lord’s grasp on literature. I am a little surprised that he did not pick up my allusion to the Ugly Duckling.
Lord Bates
Perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, would agree with me that given that this is one of the last chances we will have to discuss Clause 4, in the range of investment criteria or investment classes that can be made through the bank, whether they be grants or loans, if the objective is to achieve leverage, it would seem sensible for more emphasis to be placed on lending money at a given rate, rather than giving it away in the form of grants. Again, a preference should be given to equity finance because it would also be of potential benefit to funds in the long run as those investments come to fruition.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
My Lords, the noble Lord makes a very good point and, in an early start-up arrangement, the last thing you want to be doing is dissipating your hard-earned capital. You should be using it to recycle. However, that relates to the point we have been making, which is that leverage of about 30 times the investment is achievable, but we do not seem to have the support of the Government in that. However, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
“(2) The UK Green Investment Bank must ensure that—
(a) all studies or assessments conducted in the preparation of a business plan, and their accompanying terms of reference,(b) all written correspondence exchanged between the Government Shareholder and the Board, and(c) all key operational documents, including internal working documents of the Bank relating to investment decisions,are made available on a website maintained in accordance with the requirements of this section, subject to the exemptions specified in subsection (3).(3) Information contained in documents required to be disclosed by subsection (2) may be withheld or redacted by the Bank where in the reasonable opinion of a qualified person—
(a) its disclosure would prejudice the commercial interests of any person (including the Bank),(b) its disclosure would, or would be likely to, inhibit—(i) the free and frank provision of advice to or within the Bank,(ii) the free and frank exchange of views within the Bank for the purposes of deliberation,(c) its disclosure would otherwise prejudice, or would be likely otherwise to prejudice, the effective conduct of the Bank’s business,(d) a claim to legal professional privilege or, in Scotland, to confidentiality of communications could be maintained in relation to it in legal proceedings, or(e) its disclosure—(i) is prohibited by or under any enactment, or(ii) would constitute or be punishable as a contempt of court, and in all the circumstances of the case, the public interest in maintaining the exemption outweighs the public interest in disclosing the information.(4) The documents specified in subsection (2) must be made available on the Bank’s website or a website that is maintained by or on behalf of the Bank.
(5) Access to the documents specified in subsection (2) on the website must not be—
(a) conditional on the payment of a fee, or(b) otherwise restricted, except so far as necessary to comply with any enactment or regulatory requirement (in the United Kingdom or elsewhere).”
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
My Lords, the purpose of the amendment is quite straightforward. I spoke under the last amendment about the need for transparency, accountability, scrutiny and banking ethics, and the importance that these now have, particularly after the last crisis. This is something that should apply to the green bank. It is the first public bank to be created in modern times, but it may not be alone, because we are aware that a British Investment Bank, or whatever it is to be called, is starting up. Therefore, we should be setting precedents for how it should operate as we go forward.
We suggest that the Green Investment Bank has the highest standards of transparency both for the shareholders and the general public, which means that we can have meaningful debate; assessment and scrutiny as to how the bank is being managed; its success in achieving its green purposes; the manner in which it arrives at investment decisions—and all subject to the important point of commercial sensitivities and considerations.
The amendment would ensure that all working papers and studies undertaken in the preparation of the bank’s business plan, as well as all written correspondence exchanged between the Government and the board, were made available on a website that was freely accessible by the public. We do not want to do anything that compromises the bank’s ability to make investments and consider matters of a sensitive and commercial nature; that is why the amendment is couched in those terms, to make sure that a full and frank discussion of views can still take place between the Government and the board, and that the bank can fully undertake its activities. I stress that we want the Green Investment Bank to have the highest possible standards of transparency, accountability and scrutiny to the public and other stakeholders.
It is true that the bank falls under the Companies Act 2006, and is registered at Companies House as a company with proper articles of association and so on, but our concern is not so much with historic reporting, because often these reports can be delayed for six to nine months, but with allowing debate and discussion. A good example of this would be the rules that the Government are putting in place to ensure that inappropriate bonuses and executive pay will be restricted. As the Committee will be aware, this Bill will change the powers of shareholders in deliberations on executive remuneration, although we do not think that it goes far enough, as we will come to later. This amendment will ensure that the bank will be different from other Companies Act companies in the sense that debate about appropriate pay and the Government’s role in that would be flagged up on the website, and there permit a wider debate before the mechanisms proposed in this Bill kick in. I beg to move.
Lord Marland
My Lords, this is an interesting amendment, but of course it goes way beyond the Freedom of Information Act 2000, which permits a great level of self-disclosure and obligations that the bank must apply to because it is wholly owned by the Government. So the information will be readily accessible as to bonuses and all the other things that the noble Lord reasonably requests. It is important that there is transparency in our current world of bonuses and directors’ pay, but we do not want to put an extra burden on an organisation that is already within the Freedom of Information Act. I hope that the noble Lord understands that and will perhaps withdraw his amendment.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
My Lords, I do understand that and thank the Minister for pointing out how the Government are approaching this issue. I still regret that in some senses we are not taking advantage of how one could use a more engaged discussion with those who have responsibilities in this area, notably Parliament. Having said that, I will read carefully what the Minister has said. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
“(2) The Secretary of State must prepare and lay before both Houses of Parliament a report on the activities and investments of the UK Green Investment Bank.
(2A) The Secretary of State must lay a report before Parliament as provided for under subsection (2) within 12 months of the coming into force of this Act, and annually thereafter.
(2B) The report under subsection (2) must, in particular, include or contain information about—
(a) the investments undertaken by the UK Green Investment Bank during this period,(b) how the UK Green Investment Bank is achieving its green purposes as set out in section 1,(c) a value-for-money and efficiency statement,(d) the identification and management of risk in respect of UK Green Investment Bank objects and investments,(e) how the UK Green Investment Bank is not duplicating investments made in the markets, and(f) how the UK Green Investment Bank has applied the Main Principles as set out in the UK Corporate Governance Code.”
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
My Lords, the main aim of this amendment is to firm up how and in what form the Secretary of State must prepare and lay before both Houses of Parliament a report on the activities and investments of the UK Green Investment Bank. The amendment is largely self-explanatory, but it may be for the benefit of the Committee if I raise one general and a couple of specific points.
As I mentioned before, relying on the reports generated under the Companies Act 2006 introduces significant timing problems, as these reports will be generally arranged for an AGM often some months after the year end. A report for Parliament, if it were different, can be much more up to date and therefore more relevant to those who have to discuss it. The focus of Companies Act reports are the stakeholders, mainly in conventional companies. These would be the dispersed institutional and private shareholders and not the public interest represented by Parliament. It is therefore sensible to recognise that, although initially the Crown interest will be the only shareholding interest, that will not be identical with the public interest, and different reporting might therefore be required.
Proposed new paragraphs (a) and (b) in the amendment would give Parliament a feel for the activity that the bank has been undertaking on the ground, and bring the reality of the bank's operations to life. It would be unusual for Companies Act reports to deal with specific investments in this way.
Paragraph (c) would assess the way in which the bank is achieving value for money for its investments, and draw parliamentary attention to value for money and efficiency—again an approach that would not commonly be found in company reports.
Unusually for institutions in the public sector, the bank will have to be familiar with risk in all its forms and across its investments, and the wider economic climate will also need to be referred to as well as the appetite that individual investors will have for risk. This is an important area that we think the report should deal with.
It would be of considerable concern if the Green Investment Bank were to displace investment already available in the market, which we have already touched on in our debate this afternoon. So a specific report in that area would be helpful in understanding how the bank was progressing, and in assessing how successful it was in the marketplace.
The final point brings us back to corporate behaviours, and assisting Parliament to judge whether the bank was addressing concerns on such matters as pay and bonuses and ethical behaviours more generally.
I hope that the Minister will accept that with this amendment we are trying to be helpful. We have some common ground in assisting Parliament in getting material which is better suited to its particular role. I do not think that that will necessarily come out of the companies’ reports and I hope that the amendment will stimulate those who have to prepare them to come up with more appropriate solutions for the reporting that is necessary. I beg to move.
Lord Marland
The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, probes again—quite reasonably, if I may say so. I just want to make it clear that the Government, as the main shareholder—indeed, the only shareholder—will be holding it to account at every angle. Also, Clause 5 treats the bank as if it were a quoted company. Therefore it is subject to the Companies Act, which imposes three quite important criteria. First it will be required to produce a directors’ remuneration report, about which there will be more later in this Bill. It will be required to publish its annual accounts and reports on a website. It will be required to produce an enhanced business review, under which the directors must report on matters such as main trends and factors likely to affect the company’s business and environmental matters. We believe that that has enhanced transparency, public transparency, in addition to the watchful eye of government in terms of getting return on our investment. I hope that satisfies the noble Lord on what I consider a very important probing amendment.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
I thank the Minister for his comments. It is nice to see that my rating has risen from being interesting to being quite reasonable in what I am suggesting. I will look for an A probably in sitting seven or eight, and perhaps even get an A+ at the end. I look forward to that. In the interim, I withdraw this amendment.
“(5) The Secretary of State must make provision for an independent expert review of the performance of the UK Green Investment Bank.
(6) A review under subsection (5) must be prepared every five years following the commencement of this Act.
(7) An interim review shall be prepared no less frequently than every two and a half years.
(8) A review under subsection (5) must, in particular, include or contain information relating to—
(a) an assessment of the UK Green Investment Bank’s environmental performance in fulfilling the green purposes as set out in section 1,(b) an analysis of the main trends and factors likely to affect the future development, performance and investments of the UK Green Investment Bank,(c) macro-economic analysis, including assessments of demand in the UK economy and international factors likely to affect green investment and skills within the relevant industries,(d) assessment of the competitiveness of the UK Green Investment Bank in securing competitive advantage for the UK in green and low carbon economies relative to other countries, and(e) recommendations to improve the UK Green Investment Bank’s impact in fulfilling its green purposes in section 1.(9) A review conducted under subsection (5) must consult—
(a) The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change,(b) The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs,(c) The Committee on Climate Change,(d) Ministers from the devolved administrations,(e) investors and interested parties, and(f) members of the public.(10) The Secretary of State, in the capacity of shareholder, must provide such information as they consider reasonable to enable the person or body undertaking the review to fulfil the requirements of this subsection.
(11) A review under subsection (5) must be published and laid before both Houses of Parliament.”
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
My Lords, Amendment 15 brings to the attention of the Committee the suggestion that if the reports that are being received by Parliament are those which are mainly being generated within the Companies Act register of reporting requirements, there may be some gaps in terms of independent review. So the main purpose is to require such a review every five years following enactment, and also to have an interim report.
I am sure that the Minister will again argue that the bank will have sufficient to do under the Companies Act, and that, as a public company falling within the Freedom of Information Act, there is already a sufficiency of reporting requirements for the bank. He may argue that requiring any more might be regarded as otiose, but there are some reasons why I think the export report would be of value.
The rationale for setting up the bank is to bridge a gap in understanding between the investor community and those who wish to manufacture, develop and trade in the green technologies. Surely a periodic report of what the bank has been doing and how successful it has been in fulfilling its purposes, a check on its competitiveness and a review of the main trends and factors likely to affect its future performance would help bridge that gap and help improve the sector as a whole, leading to greater investment.
In a similar way the preparation of an external expert report would surely help the bank sharpen its performance and help improve its knowledge and understanding of the sector. It may well be that it has collected the best and the brightest to work within the bank, but, even so, whenever there is an external report, there always is more that is achieved because of the preparation for that reporting requirement than there is perhaps by actually going through the process. So in that sense it would be an assistance to the company itself.
Thirdly, the existence of such a report would surely assist those who would otherwise only be able to rely on the standard output of the bank under the Companies Act. With that, I beg to move.
Lord Marland
My Lords, this is an A+ amendment, without any doubt at all, something that I have never achieved myself. So much was I taken with this amendment that I invited my officials to contact the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Kelvin, as chairman, to consider this because I felt that it was such an A+ amendment, from an A+ man and an A+ male, that it was worthy of consideration. I hope it will satisfy the noble Lord that the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Kelvin, has made it clear that the board will undertake an independent review of its own performance each year from the end of its first full financial year in 2014. I hope that that satisfies what I thought was an excellent amendment, and I encourage the noble Lord to withdraw it.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
It is embarrassing to be praised so quickly, and so young. Of course, to be the very best of our universe you now have to go above A+ to A*+, at the risk of suggesting that there might be a further grade to which I might aspire.
Lord Marland
If the noble Lord is not satisfied, I can big it up even more.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
I shall play my cards slowly and see how we get on. The simple point that I was going to make was that the answer is exactly as I would like, and this will satisfy us in that respect. It is just a question of what will happen to the report in terms of public arrangements. Perhaps the Minister could reflect on having a further exchange with the chair of the bank to see whether it would be something that could be laid before Parliament. I do not think that it would need a formal discussion or debate, but it would be useful to have it in the Library at least, so that it is available. If he could confirm that at some point, we would be grateful. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
“General disclosure requirements
(1) The Freedom of Information Act 2000 is amended as follows.
(2) In Part VI of Schedule 1, after “The Great Britain China Centre”, insert “The UK Green Investment Bank”.”
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
This is my last appearance in the Committee on this occasion. I have risked the Minister’s wrath by suggesting that we need to think further about reporting, but I do not think that this one will be as well received—but I will have another go.
The Green Investment Bank is already covered by the Freedom of Information Act, and I accept that. It was discussed in another place, and I have read that discussion. But it stuck in my mind that there were two reasons why we need to revisit it. In the discussion in the other place, the Government said that they believed that the Freedom of Information Act, together with Clauses 5 and 6, ensure that the bank will be subject to appropriate, extensive obligations to disclose information and to report on its activities, which will ensure full transparency and accountability. I accept that, because the bank already qualifies as a publicly owned company under Section 6 of the Freedom of Information Act, which means that it is subject to the disclosure obligations that apply to public authorities. We also accept that, unlike most public authorities, not only is the bank subject to the Freedom of Information Act but it has additional, proactive reporting obligations under the Companies Act 2006, which will be enhanced by Clause 5. However, things may change. We had a discussion earlier on in Committee today at which the remote prospect of changes of ownership in the bank were raised. If those changes of ownership were such that the proportion of the bank owned by a future Government dropped below 50%, I doubt that FOI legislation would still apply. So this is to future-proof something for which there is a particular responsibility. At the moment, it is going to be wholly owned by the Crown, and the sole shareholder is the Government, so it is appropriate that the questions that may be put in terms of FOI will be answered.
This bank is being set up in the wake of the biggest financial crisis the world has seen in modern times. That should, even if for no other reason, mean that we should try to ensure that the new bank should have the highest possible standards of accountability and reporting. I remind the Committee that the Secretary of State, in his examination before the Environmental Audit Committee on 2 February 2011, said:
“As Secretary of State in BIS, my ambition is to … develop and deliver a GIB that is effective and transparent and affordable—those are our key criteria”.
Love or hate the FOI Act, it is here to stay, and is proving very effective in ensuring that the Government respond to legitimate requests for information from citizens of the UK. We should do what we can to promote that view, and we should do nothing which sets up barriers or creates uncertainty about whether information is retrievable or not. In our view, therefore, there should be no objection to recording in the primary legislation that it is quite clear that, as well as the class of institution it is, the bank itself, as long as it is retained, will be subject to FOI. I beg to move.
Lord Marland
My Lords, we have trodden this ground quite a lot so far. I think that the FOI is a very significant and far-reaching incumbence on a company, and on individuals in a country, as we have found out. There will be more later, but as I have said in the past under previous amendments the FOI Act is a very strong regulatory thing. I am not going to play “what if” scenarios, such as what if the bank is sold by a Labour Government in 10 years’ time, or another coalition in five years’ time, because it is our task to operate within the current government schemes and not to tie the hands of future Governments if they wish to carry on with other things. But I totally accept the sentiment and look forward to further debates on the subject. In the light of that, I hope that the noble Lord will withdraw his amendment.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
My Lords, I simply note that perhaps in 10 years’ time, when we are on the other side and are debating similar issues, I will remind the noble Lord of those points. However, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.