Defence and Security Review (NATO)

Debate between Lord Soames of Fletching and Gerald Howarth

Monday 2nd March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Sir Gerald Howarth (Aldershot) (Con)]

I join other Members in congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart). He has unquestionably set the tone for a seriously instructive and intelligent debate, which I hope receives wider coverage than simply in here. The hon. Member for York Central (Sir Hugh Bayley) took his cue from the massive tome on the estimates, but I will take mine from the Defence Committee’s report that was introduced by my hon. Friend.

The role of NATO has been developing and is hugely important. After the fall of the Berlin wall in 1989, there was no clarity about whether NATO had any role to play. It is a great tribute to it—particularly to Anders Fogh Rasmussen in recent years and Lord Robertson of Port Ellen before him—that NATO has developed an important role in stabilising other parts of the world, as well as looking after the defence of Europe. NATO did well in the way the international security assistance force operation was conducted, whatever the criticisms of the strategy, and the Secretary-General assembling a team to bring together not just NATO members but non-NATO members in the Libyan operation was a tribute to him.

The key thing that has happened is that a resurgent Russia has changed the outlook dramatically. The annexation of Abkhazia and South Ossetia in 2008 was perhaps seen as a one off, but the annexation of Crimea last year has been a wake-up call. Paragraph 2 of the Committee’s report states:

“However, events in Crimea and Ukraine represent a “game changer” for UK defence policy. They have provoked a fundamental re-assessment of both the prioritisation of threats in the National Security Strategy and the military capabilities required by the UK. The UK's Armed Forces will need now also to focus on the defence of Europe against Russia and against asymmetric forms of warfare. This will have significant implications for resources, force structures, equipment and training.”

As others have mentioned, the new Putin doctrine is instructive. Writing in Jane’s Defence Weekly, Dr Mark Galeotti said on 11 February that Russian policy

“reflects a developing theme in Russian military art, demonstrated in Ukraine, where a combination of direct military intervention—often covert or at least ambiguous and denied—as well as the operations of proxy forces and intelligence assets have been blended with political leverage, disinformation campaigns, and economic pressure.”

[Sir Nicholas Soames]

Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the most dangerous aspects of all this concerns what President Putin is doing to improve greatly on the way Russian forces acted in Georgia, which was not a great success from their point of view? He is trying a whole lot of new tactics, forces, weapons and structures in a wholly or partially deniable way.

[Sir Gerald Howarth]

My right hon. Friend is right, and it is significant how Russia has behaved, particularly with the annexation of Crimea. I remind hon. Members that I questioned the Foreign Secretary before Russia invaded to see whether he had heard any indication from Lavrov that it had no intention of using military force, but four days later, as my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border said, it did.

Recently, a whole raft of people have been drawing attention to what is going on. The Defence Secretary spoke of Russia as a “real and present” threat, and the Deputy Supreme Allied Commander Europe, Sir Adrian Bradshaw, also warned us and said there was a danger that Vladimir Putin would try to use his armies to invade and seize NATO territory, calculating that the alliance will be too afraid of escalating violence to respond. Sir John Sawers, former head of MI6, has said that Russia poses a state-on-state threat. He also suggested that we must have dialogue with Russia. I find that idea attractive, but I do not see how we can possibly have dialogue with a man who is intent on redrawing the map of Europe.

It is not just in Europe that we face severe challenges. As my hon. Friend the Member for Broadland (Mr Simpson) said, we face a multiplicity of threats. We can all see what is happening in the middle east. Syria is on fire and the Arab spring has left turmoil in north Africa. Now ISIL is running rampant in Iraq—thank goodness we have intervened there to check its advance, because if Iraq and all its oil revenues had fallen to it, that would have been hugely damaging to the whole world, not just the middle east.

Iran is still declaring its ambition to achieve nuclear weapons. That matter is still unresolved. We know North Korea’s filthy weapons are available to anybody who wants to pay good money to buy them. China is ramping up its military activities. I do not know how many right hon. and hon. Members have seen what is going on in the South China sea. I refer again to Jane’s Defence Weekly—this is not a particular plug for it—which has been running a hugely instructive series of articles on what China is doing in the South China sea: creating runways and port facilities on a whole raft of disputed uninhabited islands. The most significant land building in the Spratly Islands is on Fiery Cross Reef. It is shaping up to be the site for China’s first airstrip in the Spratly Islands. James Hardy, the Asia Pacific editor, writes that the area

“was previously under water; the only habitable area was a concrete platform built and maintained by China’s People’s Liberation Army Navy…The new island”—

first seen in November 2014—

“is more than 3,000 metres long and between 200 and 300 metres wide: large enough to construct a runway and apron.”

We can see what China is up to. The United States recognises that. The former US Defence Secretary Hagel said that Beijing is taking

“destabilising, unilateral actions asserting its claims in the South China sea.”

He warned that the United States would

“not look the other way when fundamental principles of the international order are being challenged”,

although I do not see any evidence that the United States is doing that.

I have referred to the criticisms that have been made at home. Criticisms are now coming from the United States, on which we find ourselves heavily dependent. We heard General Odierno today repeat not so much criticisms but the warnings he gave two years ago about the capacity of the United Kingdom to deploy alongside the United States. We should take these warnings seriously. The President of the United States has written to our own Prime Minister to express concern. This is our closest ally. We stand shoulder to shoulder. We have beliefs that are completely in common. We share intelligence. We understand all these things. We share nuclear deterrents. We believe in all those things, yet our ally is saying, “Hold on, I am concerned.” When I went to Washington in November, the discussions I had there really did rock me. Americans were saying, “Britain is now just regarded as another European country.” That is fundamentally damaging to the United Kingdom. It is not a matter for defence buffs; it is a matter for the whole nation if we are seen to be diminished, which I believe we are.

The state of our armed forces has been mentioned. This is a very serious matter. The Army is going to be cut from 110,000 to 82,000 regulars. I know we are going to have 30,000 reservists, but that is not the same thing. The Navy has been cut by 5,000, and the Royal Air Force cut similarly. We are down to 19 frigates and destroyers, when in 2001 we had 33. In 1990, we had 33 fast jet squadrons. We are now down to seven.

We face a very serious state of affairs. It is true we are committed to deterrent, and that, as far as we can understand, the Opposition are too. We are investing in cyber. My hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border is absolutely right about that. As I mentioned to him, cyber attack is an important dimension. We have to advertise, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr Hammond) the former Secretary of State for Defence made clear. We need to carry a big stick, as a number of hon. Members have said. Part of that big stick is our 2% minimum commitment to maintain our credibility with NATO. For if we do not, we will appear to be weak.

Health and Social Care

Debate between Lord Soames of Fletching and Gerald Howarth

Monday 13th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Nicholas Soames]

I do agree, but I will come to that point in a moment, if I may.

As co-chairman with the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) of the cross-party group on balanced migration, I warmly welcome the considerable progress that the Government have made on the difficult and sensitive matter of immigration. They have succeeded in driving down numbers and there is real progress, but there are no easy solutions. I welcome the carefully thought-out work of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health on those services. The cross-party group, and I think most of the House, knows that the most careful attention must now be paid to the question of access to benefits and the health service. Thus, the immigration Bill is an important step forward.

I know the Government do not underestimate the anger and frustration that many people feel about too many people arriving in Britain and accessing public services before they truly should. To that end, I will conclude by saying a few words about the European issue.

The House knows that I am a staunch but not uncritical pro-European. I acknowledge the profound frustration of dealing with Europe, and there are certainly the most serious problems with the European Union that we must fix. The Conservatives are committed to doing that. In many of these matters, we will find solid support across the continent from our European partners, and my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister will do that.

People need to understand that the Prime Minister has committed to the negotiation of a new settlement between Britain and the European Union. People questioned whether he would veto an EU treaty, but he has vetoed an EU treaty; people questioned his ability to get the EU budget cut, but he has succeeded in getting it cut; and people questioned his ability to get powers back from the EU, but the fact is that he got us out of the EU bail-out mechanism and saved this country hundreds of millions of pounds.

The Prime Minister has said that he is committed to negotiating a new settlement for Britain within the EU and I have every confidence that that is precisely what he will achieve. It will be then for the British people to judge that settlement in a referendum. There will be a referendum on our membership of the EU; the commitment on that is absolute. Some of my hon. Friends and indeed some of my right hon. Friends need to be a little cautious about trivialising what is involved. The decision on a referendum is hugely important for this country; it is probably the most important decision that it will have to take for generations. It is not to be lightly taken, or on the basis of prejudice or pub rhetoric.

[Sir Gerald Howarth (Aldershot) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

[Nicholas Soames]

No, I will not. No good is done to the public governance of this country by a constant chipping away at trust and at the Government’s integrity. If the Prime Minister says that something will happen, such is the momentous nature and importance of this decision that it will happen with orderly process and proper debate, and not with some hysterical, knee-jerk, publicity-seeking action.

I beg this House to remember that, with all the EU’s imperfections and all its problems, it gives our country free and fair access to the single largest integrated economic area in the world; a single market of 27 countries and 500 million people with a gross domestic product of $16 trillion. I could not possibly look my constituents in the eye and tell them I was prepared to risk that. I urge the House to support the Prime Minister and the Government in the orderly process that has already been announced, which will result in a referendum. I am confident that it will be a positive referendum for the United Kingdom.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Soames of Fletching and Gerald Howarth

Monday 16th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Howarth]

I think that the hon. Gentleman is being slightly churlish. I was extraordinarily impressed by the speed with which NATO responded. After all, there was a United Nations resolution and no mechanism by which it was going to be implemented. It is hugely to NATO’s credit, and particularly to the credit of its Secretary-General, that he and it made those structures available to enable support for the Libyan people to be provided not only by NATO but by many other countries. I am sure there will be a review about how successful everything has been in due course.

[Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that despite the programme of modernisation, which is very welcome, and NATO’s extremely effective and speedy response over Libya, the question of NATO’s transformation is proceeding not nearly fast enough? Does he agree that it would be a pity if the Ministers’ meeting at NATO did not come up with a really substantial reform in that department?

[Mr Howarth]

As ever, my hon. Friend puts his finger on the point. He is absolutely right and we are absolutely determined. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will be pressing ahead with transformation. We have led the way on this and we are determined not to let the issue lapse because if NATO is not efficient, lean and modern, it will not be able to deliver what we all seek.