EU Withdrawal

Lord Saatchi Excerpts

Wednesday 13th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Saatchi (Con)]

My Lords, my aim today is to put the case that the time has come for your Lordships’ House to consider a slightly more assertive position on Brexit—a slightly more muscular role, perhaps. I draw your Lordships’ attention to two items now standing in my name on the Order Paper. The first is the EU Membership Bill introduced in December, reflecting the Lead Not Leave bipartisan campaign undertaken by me, the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, and Gina Miller—the remarkable campaigner who defeated the Government in the Supreme Court over the triggering of Article 50. The other is a Question for Written Answer that was tabled today. First, it asks HMG what assessment they have made of the proposals of the Lead Not Leave campaign, in particular the one that suggests moving from debating terms for leaving the EU to debating terms for remaining in the EU. Secondly, it asks HMG about the potential benefits of the UK remaining in the EU on the basis of guarantees of constitutional and institutional reform.

The point of both of these is that we have spent two years arguing about terms for leaving. How about spending two minutes on terms for remaining—remain-plus, let us call it? We all agree that we cannot remain as before—to remain now would be a national humiliation that would last a hundred years. We also know that we must not, in this House, put on airs and graces. We must not get too big for our boots. We know our place. We can ask HMG to think again, scrutinise, but never challenge. We have heard it all a hundred times before, for a hundred years: “Watch it, or we’ll set the Parliament Act on you!”.

So why change now from all that humility? We should because there was no mandate in the EU referendum. The decision made by the British people was, “We can’t decide. We’re not sure”. Unlike a general election, when the vote can be reversed at the next election, in this referendum the result is permanent. So one vote is not enough. That is why nobody is happy. Leavers do not want to be half-in and remainers do not want to be half-out.

For pointing that out in this House, as we have often done, we are routinely denounced as the “remain House”. We are accused of thwarting, obstructing and frustrating—those are the words used—what is called the sovereign will of the British people in the biggest vote in British democratic history. The last person who made that accusation against us was the then Liberal Prime Minister Asquith on 2 March 1911. Commending the Parliament Bill to the House of Commons at Second Reading, Mr Asquith made the following statement about us:

“Take the hereditary principle. What can we get out of it? Honourable Gentlemen opposite—”


he was speaking of the Conservative Party—

“have got a great deal out of it … a practical working instrument … to frustrate and nullify the functions of this House”.

Then the Prime Minister said, of the hereditary principle:

“Let it not be our master. So say we. It is because it has been our master—because it enslaves and fetters the free action of this House—that we have put these proposals before the House, and we mean to carry them into law”.—[Official Report, Commons, 2/3/1911; col. 584.]


It is clear from that passage that the Parliament Act 1911 was fuelled overwhelmingly by the hostility of the Government of the day towards the power of the hereditary Peers. However, as we all know, that position changed when the House of Lords Act 1999 removed the hereditary Peers from the House. We were then told—were we not?—by the Leader of the House, the noble Baroness, Lady Jay, that your Lordships’ House was now “more democratic”, “more legitimate” and more authoritative.

Of course that is true. Your Lordships’ House has the expertise to help the House of Commons in the awesome task of leaving the EU. I was grateful to my noble friend the Minister for encouraging this House to, as he said, contribute to the deliberations of another place. That is because during the ping-pong on the EU withdrawal Act, there was much toing and froing about the meaning of “meaningful vote”. Section 13 of the withdrawal Act, to which the noble Baroness the Leader of the Opposition has drawn attention in her Motion, sets out the steps that must be fulfilled in domestic law before the UK can ratify a withdrawal agreement negotiated with the EU. Section 13(1)(d) specifies that a withdrawal agreement negotiated with the EU cannot be ratified unless,

“an Act of Parliament has been passed which contains provision for the implementation of the withdrawal agreement”,

in domestic legislation. Of course, the usual powers of the House of Lords in respect of passing Acts of Parliament would apply.

It is also worth pointing out that the Commons and the Lords have different powers under the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010—CRaG, I think it is called—in relation to the process for ratifying treaties. But, having said that, the Prime Minister indicated in the Commons yesterday that provision might have to be made in the withdrawal agreement Bill—the legislation required to implement the withdrawal agreement in domestic law, which must be passed before the withdrawal agreement can be ratified—to vary the normal requirements of CRaG if there was insufficient time. Perhaps the Minister will clarify what that means later.

In the meantime, given all that, is it not reasonable for this House to try to help another place with Brexit? Why now? It has to be said that the other place has not covered itself in glory on the issue of leaving the EU. Of course, the House of Commons has used its best endeavours, but the result is a 585-page document which nobody likes and which will never, whatever happens to it, heal the divisions in the country.

As I hope I have explained—but your Lordships all know it anyway—we can help. Will your Lordships join me in encouraging HMG and my noble friend the Minister to do what they should have done the day after the referendum? This is not crying over spilt milk because it is not too late. Here is the deus ex machina which the noble Lord, Lord Wilson, wants to see arise. This is the conversation that should happen tomorrow. There are only two characters on the stage in this play: Us and Them. “Us” is the British Prime Minister; “Them” is the German Chancellor and the French President. The European Commission officials in Brussels do not appear, as they are minor players in this final scene, which I shall now perform for your Lordships. I shall start with “Us”, the British Prime Minister.

“Us: I know it annoys you to set a precedent. I don’t want any special treatment, you know.

Them: Really? So what do you have in mind?

Us: I’m not asking for any exceptions for us. All I want is a few changes for the benefit of all fellow members.

Them: All members? From you? You think only of yourself. You’ve been sulking for years. Variable geometry! Two-speed Europe! Opt-outs!

Us: Yes, sorry about that.

Them: Well, what is it you want?

Us: We don’t want anything. We’re leaving anyway. But you keep saying how very sad you are to see us leaving.

Them: All right, all right. So what would it take for you to stay?

Us: Well, why didn’t you ask before? Now you mention it, only two things.

Them: Go on.

Us: First, equality with Germany in voting. Not to be a subordinate. Not a junior member.

Them: What else?

Us: We want to recognise free movement of people. But also legitimate concerns among member states about uncontrolled immigration.

Them: Is that it? Anything else?

Us: No, nothing else. That’s it. Let’s call it remain-plus.

Them: Then you’d stay?

Us: Yes.

Them: And what do we get out of it?

Us: You get what you always wanted. Unity. No breakaways. No precedent for anyone else. We all stick together. Peace. Security. And the EU to be a vanguard force. A frontier spirit. An economic power equal to America and China. What say you?

Them: OK! Done! It’s a deal! Let’s go! When do we start?”.

At this point, some noble Lords may ask, “Why would they do that? Why would the EU ever accept that?”. My answer is that they have a big motive. In France, 40% of the population are apparently interested in “Frexit”. Austria, Greece, Italy and France will apparently all express their unhappiness with the present EU set-up in the forthcoming Euro elections. The current front-runner to replace Mr Juncker as the President of the EU Commission, Mr Manfred Weber, says:

“Brexit is absolutely an example that people can see in reality ... why our main message for the EPP campaign is that it’s better to reform the European Union where we need a reform, than to leave or even destroy it”.


So there you have it. We in your Lordships’ House will step up to the plate. We in your Lordships’ House will reframe the debate. We in your Lordships’ House will save the nation from two more years—or perhaps five more years, as we have heard—of turmoil and unhappiness.

I look to my noble friend the Minister. As I have said to him many times before on these long EU occasions, I do not know how he does it. I am sure that the whole House shares my affection and respect for my noble friend and I look forward to his wise and thoughtful response to remain-plus.