Brexit

Lord Saatchi Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Saatchi (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister was kind enough to praise your Lordships’ House for its stamina. With your Lordships’ permission, I should like to return the compliment and praise him for the calm and reasonable way in which he has handled our debates.

It has all been a big misunderstanding. You hear it said that the people have spoken, that we had the biggest democratic vote in British history, that we must respect—that is the word used—the will of the people. It is said that we made a decision. It is true. We did make a decision in the referendum. The decision was: we cannot decide; we are not sure. The misunderstanding of that result is the cause of all our present difficulties.

You hear it said that the referendum result was the same as a general election, in which one vote is enough. But we, the people, do not agree. We know better. We never challenge a general election result, even if it is a victory by only one vote. That is because we know that, if we change our mind, we can change the Government at the next general election. This referendum is not like that. The result cannot be changed, and therefore one vote is not enough. In the court of public opinion, this would be called a “hung jury” or “deadlocked jury”; that is,

“a judicial jury that cannot agree upon a verdict after extended deliberation and is unable to reach the required unanimity or supermajority”.

That is the definition.

The problem arises all because of one word: “sovereignty”. What is in that word? Is there such a thing? What about the weather? For temperature, we do not seem to mind centigrade rather than Fahrenheit. For distance, metres and centimetres are okay rather than feet and inches. Regarding time, we are about to put our clocks back with Europe. On weight, I do not know about other noble Lords, but I have only kilograms on my digital scales, not pounds and ounces. We do not seem to object to the same procedures on science and medical research, terrorism, security, banking regulations, et cetera. Therefore, we now need a more grown-up conversation.

Usually, one conversation is enough to change history. It has happened many times before, so why do we not try it now? There are only three people in the room for this conversation, which is as it should be: our Prime Minister, the “PM”, and “Them”, the German Chancellor and the French President. This is the conversation that should take place—it is not too late:

“PM: Lately it seems we can’t talk without arguing.

Them: Well, what do you want now?

PM: We need to have a little talk, that’s all.

Them: About what?

PM: We’re through. Out. You know that—31 October.

Them: We don’t really care whether you come or go. All we care about is that you don’t set a precedent for anyone else.

PM: What about the Irish border problem?

Them: Northern Ireland? Where’s that again?

PM: We want a deal.

Them: Trade deals? Of course. No problem. My assistant will book a conference call.

PM: I know it annoys you to set a precedent. I’m not asking for any special treatment for us. Just a few changes in the EU for the benefit of all fellow members.

Them: Fellow members! From you! You think only of yourself. You’ve been sulking for years! Variable geometry! Two-speed Europe! Opt-outs!

PM: Yes, sorry about that.

Them: And we’re sorry that you’re leaving.

PM: Oh, you didn’t want us to leave? Why didn’t you say that before?

Them: So what?

PM: So, I’ve only got one question for you. We’ve had three years of arguments about our terms for leaving. How about three minutes on terms for remaining? If we agree to stay, what are you offering?

Them: What do you want?

PM: We don’t want anything. We’re leaving anyway. But you keep saying how sad you are to see us leaving, how bad that would be.

Them: So? Go on.

PM: We want equality. With you two. That’s all. Not a subordinate. Not a junior member. We don’t want you to boss us around. And we don’t want to boss you around. Equality. Equal voting rights with you on all EU legislation.

Them: What else?

PM: We want to recognise free movement of people, but we also want to recognise the legitimate concerns among members about uncontrolled immigration. All members want that too.

Them: Is that it? Anything else?

PM: No, nothing else. That’s it. ‘Remain-plus’ we could call it.

Them: Then you’d stay?

PM: Yes.

Them: What about America? America wants us to fail. They think your departure hurts us. America wants you to leave.

PM: They do now, but they’ll come round.

Them: And what about your Parliament? Will they go along with it?

PM: Yes, because it’s the only way to ‘heal the wounds’, ‘unite the nation’.

Them: And what about us? What do we get out of it?

PM: You get what you always wanted: unity, no breakaways, no precedent for anyone else. We all stick together. Peace, security, and the EU to be a vanguard force—a frontier spirit, an economic superpower to match America and China. What say you?

Them: OK! Done! Let’s go! When do we start?”

That conversation would change the course of European history: Britain to have voting power equal to that of France and Germany, and reasonable control of immigration. It is called leadership, and if Germany and France accepted that we were equal to them in votes, which currently we are not, everyone would be happy. Remainers would be pleased because it would make the case for remain more defensible, as we would not just be going back to where we were before, and leavers would be pleased because it would resolve their No. 1 problem—sovereignty—as we would not be subordinate to anyone.

Therefore, I encourage your Lordships’ House to end the current dismal choice that we, the people, have between the least-worst options that nobody wants. We need a North Star—a guiding light—and your Lordships’ House can help to provide it. We are at a historic moment of maximum British power in Europe. Now all we have to do is use it: one conversation to change history.

Brexit: Appointment of Joint Committee

Lord Saatchi Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Saatchi (Con)]

My Lords, some noble Lords say that they cannot support this Motion because it goes too far in promoting a House of Lords role in Brexit. I do not support it for the opposite reason: it does not go far enough.

Your Lordships’ House has recently been the victim of a snub, a serious breach of etiquette. People can get quite touchy about things like that. In the case of Brexit, we have already had one failure of etiquette. Our own Prime Minister was told to go to Brussels and deal with the staff: EU officials and civil servants, well below her pay grade. That is the equivalent of the American President coming to Buckingham Palace to see the Queen and being sent to the Foreign Office to meet the Permanent Secretary. Of course, the US Government would never allow that to happen to their leader, but we did. That is probably why the negotiations failed. Now this EU debacle has brought us face to face with another example of poor etiquette, and this time much closer to home: between your Lordships’ House and another place, down the corridor.

Like all humble people, we in your Lordships’ House do not mind looking up to our superiors, as long as we are not taken advantage of or taken for granted. However, as far as we are concerned, we have been the dog that did not bark in the night; not even a growl. While another place has had meaningful votes on the historic choices about our national future, we have been told to be satisfied with only take-note Motions. In fact, we agreed to that.

Under Section 13(1)(b) of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act, which many noble Lords know more about than I do, the withdrawal agreement cannot be ratified unless the House of Commons has given its approval. Apparently, this is what is meant by the House of Commons having a meaningful vote. The House of Lords does not have a corresponding meaningful vote to approve the withdrawal agreement and the framework for the future relationship. However, Section 13(1)(d) provides that the withdrawal agreement can be ratified only if an Act of Parliament has been passed which contains provisions for the implementation of the withdrawal agreement in domestic law. Yet we had no role in the failed EU talks. No Member of your Lordships’ House was a key part of the team during this painful process which brought down the Prime Minister. We constituted one of 28 people around the Cabinet table. That is 3.6% of the decision-making, is it not?

It has been said that we signed away our rights to have a view on Brexit, but that is not the case. We have the power, as confirmed by our Library, which says that the usual powers of the House of Lords will apply to the passage of any Act of Parliament to do with Brexit. That is my point. Section 13 of the withdrawal Act does not change the usual powers of the House of Lords over passing primary and secondary legislation.

I ask your Lordships to consider the historic context of this Motion. Many noble Lords will remember the passage of the House of Lords Act. My noble friends and I were then sitting on the Opposition Benches. We were told that we should not “die in the ditch” to preserve the hereditary Peers. After they had gone, the then Leader of the House told us that your Lordships’ House would be more democratic, more legitimate, more authoritative. That was what was promised to us during the passage of the House of Lords Act, but it never happened. Now it is said that if we step out of line, they will set the Parliament Act on us, or worse, abolish us altogether, so the House of Commons was left to its own devices, but none of that will help us on the day of judgment. The British public say that this has been “a complete mess” and “a total shambles”. We in your Lordships’ House cannot say, “It’s not my fault”, “I’m off the hook, there was nothing we could do to make any difference” or, “It’s not my responsibility. My hands are clean”. The result of this sorry tale of broken promises and failure to deliver on time is general cynicism and disillusionment, so well captured by my noble friend Lord Cormack. We the people are left standing like the passengers at Heathrow, forlornly looking up at that familiar notice board: “Delayed, delayed, delayed, cancelled, cancelled, cancelled”.

How can your Lordships’ House help? We certainly have the expertise. Look at the distinguished members of our Select Committee and sub-committees on Europe, and the speakers’ lists in all our EU debates, including this one. Look around the Chamber, see all the Cabinet Secretaries, the distinguished Private Secretaries to the Prime Minister, the Political Secretaries, the heads of the No. 10 Policy Unit, the No. 10 Chiefs of Staff: a fine group.

We all need a bucket of ice-cold water thrown over our fantasies every now and again. But we, the Members of your Lordships’ House, have been subjected to the political equivalent of waterboarding, a torture that leaves you weak and angry. We feel powerless. They tell us that it is not all bad and that there is nothing we can do about it anyway. They say that no matter how hard we try, it is not going to result in anything. They are a wet blanket that smothers us. I urge all my noble friends and all Members of your Lordships’ House on all Benches to assert ourselves. There is no cause for pride in what has happened in Britain in the last few years. There is no cause for self-satisfaction, but there is cause for hope and faith in our House. In our time, this House has lived with the moments of great crisis. Our lives have been marked with debates about great issues, issues of war and peace, issues of prosperity and depression. This is not about trade deals, tariffs, membership fees, et cetera. It is about the values, the purposes and the meanings of our great nation, our dignity, our good name and our sacred honour. There is no EU problem. There is no Irish problem. There is no Scottish problem. There is only a British problem. We are met here today not as Conservative or Labour, Liberal Democrat or Cross-Bench—or leave or remain—but as British people, to solve that problem. That is our purpose.

Many of the issues of Europe are very complex and most difficult, but about this there should be no argument: we cannot, we ought not and we must not wait any longer before insisting on involving your Lordships’ House in Brexit. We have already waited long enough, and the time for waiting is gone, so I ask you to join me to make this happen. I do not make that request lightly for, from where I sit, I recognise that outside Westminster is the outraged conscience of a nation, the grave concern of many nations, and the harsh judgment of history on our acts.

We need a North Star, a guiding light, and your Lordships’ House can help to provide it. Yet we are continuously told to show “humility”. What is in that word? You will hear it said that we must display modesty, restraint and reserve—admirable qualities all. That, however, is not what is meant by humility—not at all. I looked it up. It has other meanings: obedience, self-abasement, subjection, submissiveness, timidity and inferiority complex.

I am very proud of our House and what it can do. As our brilliant Library confirms, we are at a moment of maximum power for your Lordships’ House. This Motion has much merit but it does not go far enough. We must not show arrogance, egoism or self- importance. Nor will we. Let us, however, at least show boldness, confidence and pride, so that we can all hear, loud and clear, the Clerk’s immortal words in the House of Commons: “Message from the House of Lords”.

Further Developments in Discussions with the European Union under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union

Lord Saatchi Excerpts

Monday 11th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Saatchi (Con)]

My Lords, etiquette is very important in foreign affairs, especially in war and peace. In the case of the EU Brexit treaty, there has been a breach of etiquette. Our Prime Minister has been negotiating with the wrong people. She has been dealing with the staff—EU officials and civil servants below her pay grade. It is the equivalent of the American President coming on a state visit to Britain to meet the Permanent Secretary at the Foreign Office. The US Government would never allow that to happen, but we did. Now we need a straightforward conversation between grown-ups, the people in charge, the only people who matter—our Prime Minister, the French President and the German Chancellor. We need a real conversation with the right people. There is not much time left—it should take place tomorrow.

I will see whether I can express it. This is the Prime Minister and them—the German Chancellor and the French President—preferably tomorrow.

“Prime Minister: Don’t.

Them: Don’t what?

Prime Minister: Don’t be angry with me.

Them: Why not? You haven’t been very charming. You haven’t been understanding. You haven’t even been conversational.

Prime Minister: I’m sorry. Really I am. But lately, it seems that we can’t talk without arguing. I’d be lost without you—that’s the truth.

Them: So what now?

Prime Minister: We need to have a little talk, that’s all.

Them: About what?

Prime Minister: We’re through. Out. You know that.

Them: We don’t really care whether you come or go. All we care about is that you don’t set a precedent for anyone else.

Prime Minister: What about the Irish border problem?

Them: Northern Ireland? Where is that again?

Prime Minister: We want a deal.

Them: Of course—trade deals. My assistant will book a conference call.

Prime Minister: I know it annoys you to set a precedent. I’m not asking for any exceptions for us—just a few changes in the EU for the benefit of all fellow members.

Them: All members? From you? You think only of yourself. You’ve been sulking for years. Variable geometry! Two-speed Europe! Opt-outs!

Prime Minister: Yes, sorry about that.

Them: Well, what is it you want?

Prime Minister: We don’t want anything. We’re leaving anyway. But you keep saying how very sad you are to see us leaving.

Them: So?

Prime Minister: So I’ve got only one question for you. What if we were to remain?

Them: That would be different.

Prime Minister: How different? What would you offer us?

Them: What would you like?

Prime Minister: I thought you’d never ask! Well, now you mention it, only two things.

Them: Go on.

Prime Minister: We want equality—to be equal to you in voting rights, not to be a subordinate or a junior member. We don’t want you to boss us around, and we don’t want to boss you around. We want equality—with you.

Them: What else?

Prime Minister: We want to recognise free movement of people but also legitimate concerns among members about uncontrolled immigration.

Them: Is that it? Anything else?

Prime Minister: No, nothing else. That’s it. You could call it remain-plus.

Them: Then you’d stay?

Prime Minister: Yes.

Them: And what do we get out of it?

Prime Minister: You get what you always wanted. Unity. No breakaways. No precedent for anyone else. We all stick together. Peace. Security. And for the EU to be a vanguard force. A frontier spirit. An economic power to rival America and China. What say you?

Them: OK! Done! Let’s go! When do we start?”

We need that conversation now, because, as other noble Lords have said this afternoon, none of the current least worst options will heal our relationship with the EU and with each other—everyone will be a loser. A new approach is necessary; another 585 pages of codicils, protocols and appendices will not do the job. New creativity is necessary. Without achieving that, there will always be a perpetual EU crisis of war and conflicts, and none of us will live in peace and tranquillity.

We can do it; it is called remain-plus, and it means that we will have won a lot for our years of political anguish: equal voting power to France and Germany and a reasonable control of immigration. Lead, not leave: we would take our rightful place as at least one of the big three in Europe. That would make it all worth while, would it not? If anyone says to your Lordships that the EU would never accept that, here is Manfred Weber, who is the leader of the biggest parliamentary group in the EU and the front-runner to replace Mr Juncker as the President of the EU Commission. He says:

“Brexit is absolutely an example that people can see in reality … why our main message … is that it’s better to reform the European Union where we need a reform, than to leave or even destroy it”.


Remember that the Chancellor of Germany and the French President have a big motive. In France, 40% of the population is interested in Frexit and Austria, Greece, Italy and France will apparently all express their unhappiness with the current EU set-up in the forthcoming European elections.

We are at an historic moment of maximum power in Europe. I repeat: this is a moment of our maximum power in Europe. Now all we have to do is use it: one conversation to change history. We can do it.

I was very pleased to hear my noble friend say that the Government welcome our contribution. Your Lordships’ House has been here, is here and will always be here, playing our usual constructive role. But there is another example of poor etiquette: this time between the House of Commons and the House of Lords. I am told that it is something to do with the democratic mandate.

Like all humble people, we do not mind looking up to our superiors in another place as long as we are not taken for granted, but so far we have been the dog that did not bark in the night, with not even a growl. We have the expertise—we all know that—and we have the power, as confirmed by the Library, which confirmed to me that the usual powers of the House of Lords would apply to the passage of any Act of Parliament to do with Brexit.

I encourage the House not to be satisfied with these take note Motions. We should not accept that the other place is voting on the historic choice facing our nation tomorrow while today we are debating only a take note Motion. That will not help us on the day of judgment, when we have to stand responsible for what we have done in this House.

I am very proud of our House—as your Lordships know—and what it can do. I would like it to end the current dismal choice between the least worst options that nobody wants. Let us give the people of Britain and Europe something they both want. It is ready and waiting, I can tell you: it is in the Printed Paper Office and on page 19 of today’s Order Paper. It is the EU Membership Bill, and I hope that your Lordships will consider it. We might then hear, loud and clear, what we want to hear: the Clerk’s immortal words in the House of Commons, “Message from the House of Lords”.

EU Withdrawal

Lord Saatchi Excerpts

Wednesday 13th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Saatchi (Con)]

My Lords, my aim today is to put the case that the time has come for your Lordships’ House to consider a slightly more assertive position on Brexit—a slightly more muscular role, perhaps. I draw your Lordships’ attention to two items now standing in my name on the Order Paper. The first is the EU Membership Bill introduced in December, reflecting the Lead Not Leave bipartisan campaign undertaken by me, the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, and Gina Miller—the remarkable campaigner who defeated the Government in the Supreme Court over the triggering of Article 50. The other is a Question for Written Answer that was tabled today. First, it asks HMG what assessment they have made of the proposals of the Lead Not Leave campaign, in particular the one that suggests moving from debating terms for leaving the EU to debating terms for remaining in the EU. Secondly, it asks HMG about the potential benefits of the UK remaining in the EU on the basis of guarantees of constitutional and institutional reform.

The point of both of these is that we have spent two years arguing about terms for leaving. How about spending two minutes on terms for remaining—remain-plus, let us call it? We all agree that we cannot remain as before—to remain now would be a national humiliation that would last a hundred years. We also know that we must not, in this House, put on airs and graces. We must not get too big for our boots. We know our place. We can ask HMG to think again, scrutinise, but never challenge. We have heard it all a hundred times before, for a hundred years: “Watch it, or we’ll set the Parliament Act on you!”.

So why change now from all that humility? We should because there was no mandate in the EU referendum. The decision made by the British people was, “We can’t decide. We’re not sure”. Unlike a general election, when the vote can be reversed at the next election, in this referendum the result is permanent. So one vote is not enough. That is why nobody is happy. Leavers do not want to be half-in and remainers do not want to be half-out.

For pointing that out in this House, as we have often done, we are routinely denounced as the “remain House”. We are accused of thwarting, obstructing and frustrating—those are the words used—what is called the sovereign will of the British people in the biggest vote in British democratic history. The last person who made that accusation against us was the then Liberal Prime Minister Asquith on 2 March 1911. Commending the Parliament Bill to the House of Commons at Second Reading, Mr Asquith made the following statement about us:

“Take the hereditary principle. What can we get out of it? Honourable Gentlemen opposite—”


he was speaking of the Conservative Party—

“have got a great deal out of it … a practical working instrument … to frustrate and nullify the functions of this House”.

Then the Prime Minister said, of the hereditary principle:

“Let it not be our master. So say we. It is because it has been our master—because it enslaves and fetters the free action of this House—that we have put these proposals before the House, and we mean to carry them into law”.—[Official Report, Commons, 2/3/1911; col. 584.]


It is clear from that passage that the Parliament Act 1911 was fuelled overwhelmingly by the hostility of the Government of the day towards the power of the hereditary Peers. However, as we all know, that position changed when the House of Lords Act 1999 removed the hereditary Peers from the House. We were then told—were we not?—by the Leader of the House, the noble Baroness, Lady Jay, that your Lordships’ House was now “more democratic”, “more legitimate” and more authoritative.

Of course that is true. Your Lordships’ House has the expertise to help the House of Commons in the awesome task of leaving the EU. I was grateful to my noble friend the Minister for encouraging this House to, as he said, contribute to the deliberations of another place. That is because during the ping-pong on the EU withdrawal Act, there was much toing and froing about the meaning of “meaningful vote”. Section 13 of the withdrawal Act, to which the noble Baroness the Leader of the Opposition has drawn attention in her Motion, sets out the steps that must be fulfilled in domestic law before the UK can ratify a withdrawal agreement negotiated with the EU. Section 13(1)(d) specifies that a withdrawal agreement negotiated with the EU cannot be ratified unless,

“an Act of Parliament has been passed which contains provision for the implementation of the withdrawal agreement”,

in domestic legislation. Of course, the usual powers of the House of Lords in respect of passing Acts of Parliament would apply.

It is also worth pointing out that the Commons and the Lords have different powers under the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010—CRaG, I think it is called—in relation to the process for ratifying treaties. But, having said that, the Prime Minister indicated in the Commons yesterday that provision might have to be made in the withdrawal agreement Bill—the legislation required to implement the withdrawal agreement in domestic law, which must be passed before the withdrawal agreement can be ratified—to vary the normal requirements of CRaG if there was insufficient time. Perhaps the Minister will clarify what that means later.

In the meantime, given all that, is it not reasonable for this House to try to help another place with Brexit? Why now? It has to be said that the other place has not covered itself in glory on the issue of leaving the EU. Of course, the House of Commons has used its best endeavours, but the result is a 585-page document which nobody likes and which will never, whatever happens to it, heal the divisions in the country.

As I hope I have explained—but your Lordships all know it anyway—we can help. Will your Lordships join me in encouraging HMG and my noble friend the Minister to do what they should have done the day after the referendum? This is not crying over spilt milk because it is not too late. Here is the deus ex machina which the noble Lord, Lord Wilson, wants to see arise. This is the conversation that should happen tomorrow. There are only two characters on the stage in this play: Us and Them. “Us” is the British Prime Minister; “Them” is the German Chancellor and the French President. The European Commission officials in Brussels do not appear, as they are minor players in this final scene, which I shall now perform for your Lordships. I shall start with “Us”, the British Prime Minister.

“Us: I know it annoys you to set a precedent. I don’t want any special treatment, you know.

Them: Really? So what do you have in mind?

Us: I’m not asking for any exceptions for us. All I want is a few changes for the benefit of all fellow members.

Them: All members? From you? You think only of yourself. You’ve been sulking for years. Variable geometry! Two-speed Europe! Opt-outs!

Us: Yes, sorry about that.

Them: Well, what is it you want?

Us: We don’t want anything. We’re leaving anyway. But you keep saying how very sad you are to see us leaving.

Them: All right, all right. So what would it take for you to stay?

Us: Well, why didn’t you ask before? Now you mention it, only two things.

Them: Go on.

Us: First, equality with Germany in voting. Not to be a subordinate. Not a junior member.

Them: What else?

Us: We want to recognise free movement of people. But also legitimate concerns among member states about uncontrolled immigration.

Them: Is that it? Anything else?

Us: No, nothing else. That’s it. Let’s call it remain-plus.

Them: Then you’d stay?

Us: Yes.

Them: And what do we get out of it?

Us: You get what you always wanted. Unity. No breakaways. No precedent for anyone else. We all stick together. Peace. Security. And the EU to be a vanguard force. A frontier spirit. An economic power equal to America and China. What say you?

Them: OK! Done! It’s a deal! Let’s go! When do we start?”.

At this point, some noble Lords may ask, “Why would they do that? Why would the EU ever accept that?”. My answer is that they have a big motive. In France, 40% of the population are apparently interested in “Frexit”. Austria, Greece, Italy and France will apparently all express their unhappiness with the present EU set-up in the forthcoming Euro elections. The current front-runner to replace Mr Juncker as the President of the EU Commission, Mr Manfred Weber, says:

“Brexit is absolutely an example that people can see in reality ... why our main message for the EPP campaign is that it’s better to reform the European Union where we need a reform, than to leave or even destroy it”.


So there you have it. We in your Lordships’ House will step up to the plate. We in your Lordships’ House will reframe the debate. We in your Lordships’ House will save the nation from two more years—or perhaps five more years, as we have heard—of turmoil and unhappiness.

I look to my noble friend the Minister. As I have said to him many times before on these long EU occasions, I do not know how he does it. I am sure that the whole House shares my affection and respect for my noble friend and I look forward to his wise and thoughtful response to remain-plus.

Brexit: Parliamentary Approval of the Outcome of Negotiations with the European Union

Lord Saatchi Excerpts

Monday 28th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Saatchi (Con)]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords who have sent me kind thoughts in the past few weeks. I am very grateful to them—they know who they are—and in particular to the noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, who, aside from being the chairman of our Appointments Commission and Judicial Appointments Commission, is also, as we know, one of our most distinguished physicians. He is not in his place but his combination of ice-cool medical professionalism and loving care is a symbol of one of the many wonderful things about your Lordships’ House.

What I am about to say is supported by the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, one of our leading legal figures; she is unable to be in her place today because she is with the United Nations team in Turkey examining the murder of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Also, outside of this House, it is supported by Gina Miller, who, with the assistance of the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, defeated Her Majesty’s Government in the Supreme Court on the question of the trigger of Article 50.

With the help of your Lordships today there will be a big redistribution of power in Europe. Why? After the Second World War, Germany was in ashes. At the Yalta peace conference we were one of the big three—Russia, America and Britain. We spoke for the whole of Europe but, in three brilliant moves, German diplomacy ended all that. First, there was reunification so that Germany had the biggest population in Europe. Secondly, there was the treaty of Nice so that voting strength in Europe reflected population weight—one man, one vote instead of one country, one vote. Germany outvoted Britain for the first time. Thirdly, there was the treaty of Lisbon—your Lordships are familiar with the articles—so that the majority required to change EU law was reduced. Three simple steps to effective control of Europe.

Our Government were asleep at the wheel. Throughout, the British Foreign Office practised the withdrawal method in sex—stay out of the danger zone. That was the government strategy throughout—variable geometry and two-speed Europe—until they finally achieved a climax with the aptly named EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018. Britain stood on the touchlines at Nice and Lisbon and watched the game as a spectator. The result? You will hear it on the TV news any night: in the end Germany will decide; Mrs Merkel signs the cheques.

This brings us to today, with Britain as a subordinate reporting to the EU. Are we supposed to look forward to serving the EU Scottish smoked salmon for starters, Irish beef for the main course and Welsh rarebit for dessert? As someone once said, “No, no, no”.

After all this, what are we to do? To now remain in the EU, I say to the noble Lord, Lord Newby, would be a national humiliation that would last for 100 years. What would be the point anyway? We would still have the same problems as before: first, we do not want to be bossed around; and, secondly, we do not want uncontrolled immigration. Those two problems have to be fixed and the only way now on offer is to leave.

However, there is a much better way, which is what the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, Gina Miller and I are suggesting today—to lead, not leave. For the sake of phraseology, let us call it remain-plus. We want a redistribution of power in Europe and that is why I introduced the EU Membership Bill in your Lordships’ House on 10 December 2018. It would give us equal votes to Germany and reasonable control of immigration. It would mean that Britain would take its rightful place as, at the very least, one of the natural leaders of Europe. A happy ending to two years of what has been popularly known and described as a complete mess.

The withdrawal agreement has been withdrawn. I consider myself to be of average intelligence but it was so complex that it was beyond the judgment and understanding of the human mind to comprehend all its variables. Shall we see whether your Lordships’ House can do any better? Instead of a 585-page EU document, the Bill I am referring to, which is now in the Printed Paper Office, is a one-page House of Lords Bill. Here is the rationale behind it.

For over 100 years since the Parliament Act 1911, we in your Lordships’ House have obviously all looked up to the other place. It has legitimacy, the authority of the ballot box and the mandate of the general election, et cetera. We are a humble House and we know it. However, I hope that we will make up our own minds about whether we think that our continuing silence on the subject of the EU is still appropriate. The EU chief spokesman said last week that the EU wants to hear what Britain wants—what it “really, really wants”. Apparently, the House of Commons is having difficulty telling it, so why do we not have a go?

The same deference that we have always displayed to the House of Commons applied also to the EU referendum, and that ace of trumps is played on a daily basis: “We voted to leave. Nobody must obstruct or frustrate the clear sovereign will of the people in the biggest democratic vote in British history”, and so on. However, I say that the time is up for that argument because the result of the referendum was clear: we cannot decide; we are not sure. That was the result.

There is no comparison between a general election and that referendum. In a general election, if we do not like what we voted for, we can change our mind. This is democracy—first past the post and the greatest advance in human civilisation—and one vote is enough. Nobody challenges that. But this EU referendum is completely different. If we do not like what we voted for, we cannot change it—it is permanent. Therefore, the beautiful concept that “one vote is enough” does not apply. As we have seen, the result is that nobody is happy. Leave people hate half in; remain people hate half out.

We keep hearing that this is a “failure of statesmanship” on a level with Suez. Apparently, Colonel Nasser wrote a page a day for each of the country leaders involved in the Suez crisis—Britain, France, America and Israel—to try to understand how that day had gone from their point of view. It worked very well, did it not? Shall we try that with Chancellor Merkel and President Macron? They had only one interest and one strategy—no detail required. The view was, “We don’t really care whether Britain comes or goes. All we care about is that they don’t set a precedent for anyone else. Therefore, our strategy is tough terms. The tough-terms strategy will have one of two good results. Either Britain accepts the tough terms—that will teach the rest of them—or it says, ‘These terms are tough. We’d better stay’”. Either way, for France and Germany tough terms was a no-lose bet, which they have executed to perfection.

Meanwhile, Britain has now spent many angry years, and 585 pages, debating our terms for leaving. Let us see what we can do with our terms for remaining. How about one page? That is the length of the Bill—two clauses on one page. The first clause sets out that Britain is to have the same voting powers as Germany; the second deals with Britain having reasonable control over immigration. This Bill is remain-plus, and it means that we will have won a lot for our years of political anguish: equal power to Germany and reasonable control over immigration. That would make it all worth while, would it not? Perhaps the EU leaders would prefer that too. They keep saying that they are “so sad” at our leaving. Let us find out whether theirs are crocodile tears.

In case any noble Lord thinks that the EU will never accept that, here is Manfred Weber, the leader of the biggest parliamentary group in the EU and the front-runner to replace Mr Juncker as President of the EU Commission. Last week he said:

“Brexit is absolutely an example that people can see in reality ... why our main message for the EPP campaign is that it’s better to reform the European Union where we need a reform, than to leave or even destroy it”.


This Bill has big reforms for the EU leaders to swallow but, like the British people, they might prefer them to the unpalatable dishes now on offer.

If your Lordships’ House moves this Bill forward, we will feel more responsible for our own lives. Everyone will agree that it makes everything in Europe much fairer and the British people will gain more dignity and self-respect. Therefore, in the name of common sense and in the interest of the country, I ask all noble Lords, on whatever Bench they may be, to now fight for this EU reform, and this Bill, as best they may. The three of us whom I mentioned at the beginning are undertaking this national task here today. I call upon all Members of your Lordships’ House who agree with us to listen to my voice and follow me. Long live Britain in honour and independence.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Saatchi Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Wednesday 31st January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Saatchi (Con)]

My Lords, it is an honour to follow the noble Lord. I would like to dedicate my speech, if this is within the conventions of your Lordships’ House, to another Member of the House—the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Leeds—for exactly the same reason as the noble Lord, Lord O’Donnell, mentioned him. The right reverend Prelate reminded us that there is more to life than trade deals and that human beings possess the power of imagination, and can conjure up in their minds a vision of a better world and a better life.

So far in this debate, we have certainly been presented with many nightmare scenarios. So now, as we approach the end, perhaps I may paint your Lordships a picture, if you will allow me, of the dream scenario: a happy ending to the story.

So I bring your Lordships joyous news. It is a photo opportunity to be shared in social media and across all TVs, all platforms, all devices all over the world. It immediately goes viral and is downloaded 1.2 billion times in 43 seconds—a global media sensation. There are three people in the picture: German Chancellor Merkel, French President Macron and, standing between them and slightly in front of them, British Prime Minister Theresa May. The backdrop is the Eiffel Tower in Paris. Chancellor Merkel speaks first. She says: “Today, every citizen of Europe gives thanks to British Prime Minister May for this historic agreement, signed by us, which guarantees the peace, prosperity and security of all the people of Europe”. A spectacular fireworks display then illuminates the Eiffel Tower and the whole of the sky above Paris is dazzling red, white and blue.

The Prime Minister comes home in a special plane of the Queen’s Flight. She is driven to Buckingham Palace to inform Her Majesty the Queen of her progress. Returning to Downing Street through crowd-lined streets under a pale May sun, the Prime Minister speaks—a lone figure, standing at the now familiar lectern outside the door of No. 10. She announces: “We are no longer a member of the European Union. We are now a partner of the European Union”. The crowd roars its approval as she reports: “All our red lines have been achieved. We are no longer a member of the single market. We are now a member of the single platform. We are no longer a member of the customs union. We are now a member of the customs group. We are no longer under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. We will not ‘take account of or have regard to’ the decisions of the ECJ. We will only have ‘due regard’ to its rulings, and we will no longer submit to free movement of persons. We will now only accept free movement of workers”.

Turning from the world’s cameras to speak directly to the British people, she says: “I have carried out the task you gave me. I have delivered the will of the British people. I now await your further instructions”. As she turns to enter No. 10, some reporters shout out: “Prime Minister, Prime Minister! Nothing has changed!”. But their voices are drowned out by the spontaneous burst into singing of the citizens outside the gates of No. 10 as the sound reverberates along Whitehall: “For she’s a jolly good fellow and so say all of us!”.

She is voted one of the greatest Prime Ministers of all time, and a grateful nation erects a bronze statue of her in Parliament Square.

In the years that followed, the Prime Minister provided the British people, free at last, with an inspiring vision and sense of purpose. She saw that the most effective political statement of our time was, “I have a dream”. She had a dream too, and she made it come true: an “end state” where Britain takes its rightful place as the national leader of Europe. How did she do it? Every day she noted the statue of General Slim opposite Downing Street and remembered his lesson about the power of words to change the world. As he said:

“You cannot win a war unless your troops believe they are fighting for a noble object”.


She carefully studied how Germany had risen from ashes to ascendancy, dust to dominance, by changing just one word: “democracy”. As so many noble Lords know much better than I, in the original European Coal and Steel Community made up of six countries, democracy meant one country, one vote. German diplomats brilliantly changed it to one citizen, one vote, which is much more democratic. The moves that followed—reunification of the biggest population in Europe; the treaty of Nice, so that Germany outvoted Britain for the first time; and the treaty of Lisbon, so that the majority required to change EU law was reduced—were three simple steps to effective control of Europe. The Prime Minister thought, “They did it. Why can’t we?”. She saw the opportunity. Britain would soon have the largest working-age population in Europe, and according to the most recent estimates, faster economic growth than Germany for the next 20 years.

So the Prime Minister called the Foreign Secretary to No. 10 and asked to see the Foreign Office plan for Britain as the leading nation of Europe. She was told, “Britain at the head of Europe? It’s impossible. Pie in the sky. Head in the clouds. We must keep our feet on the ground”. But she thought that that would not do. She resolved to mobilise the English language and send it into battle; we know that. The Prime Minister understood that this would be the work of a generation or even two generations, as it was for Germany, but she recognised that the movie we are in—further to the choices made by the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane—is not “The Great Escape”. The film needs a better title—“The Promised Land”—and a new script written by a fresh team of screenwriters. The Prime Minister held fast to her dream because she knew that a map of the world which does not include Utopia is not worth looking at.