Heavy Commercial Vehicles in Kent (No. 1) (Amendment) Order 2020

Lord Rosser Excerpts

Thursday 26th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

My Lords, the orders extend the sunset clauses of existing 2019 orders, as the Minister said, from the end of this year so that heavy commercial vehicles can continue to be regulated by traffic officers in Kent until the end of October next year. That is to keep Operation Brock, which is intended in particular to keep the M20 in Kent open in both directions, on the road in a bid to avoid the consequences of cross-channel travel disruption. The orders also provide for penalties for drivers of heavy commercial vehicles who do not have a valid Kent access permit, and for heavy commercial vehicles carrying priority goods via the Channel Tunnel or the Port of Dover to be given priority when travelling through Kent.

Since we are only just over a month away from the end of the transition period, could the Minister place on record the Government’s latest assessment of the likely level of cross-channel travel disruption from the beginning of January, since I assume this is a matter that the Government now keep constantly under review? The Explanatory Memorandum says:

“The Government’s reasonable worst-case scenario suggests that there might a freight flow of 60% to 80% of usual volumes at the short Channel crossing in the weeks following the end of the transition period, and that could lead to queues of up to 6,500 HCVs for January 2021 rising to 7,000 in February 2021 in Kent.”


What does that actually mean in terms of travel disruption? It also says:

“The traffic management measures proposed would only be used during temporary activations of Operation Brock”.


How often, and in what circumstances, is it expected that Operation Brock will be activated? Is it expected to be activated after February, since the Explanatory Memorandum refers to queues of numbers of heavy commercial vehicles only up to February 2021?

The Government are introducing an online check for heavy commercial vehicle drivers taking goods from this country to the EU, which would enable them to confirm at the point of loading their goods that they had the appropriate border documentation. If so, they would then be advised that they could continue their journey. If they did not have the necessary documentation they would be told not to take the goods until the trader had provided all the relevant documentation. Use of the online check for heavy commercial vehicles will be necessary to obtain a Kent access permit, enabling travel on the M20 or the A2/M2. The Government intend to make the use of this online check mandatory for those travelling through Kent to reduce the number of heavy commercial vehicles coming into the county that were not border-ready to travel from Dover or through the Channel Tunnel.

To what extent do the Government expect the new mandatory online check to reduce the need to use a stretch of the M20 and off-road holding areas in Kent for heavy commercial vehicles waiting to cross the channel? Will it eliminate that need? If not, to what extent will they still be needed, and by a maximum of how many heavy commercial vehicles at any one point? What will be the extent of delays if on-road and off-road holding areas have to be used? How much longer, on average, will it take a heavy commercial vehicle to complete the journey across the channel, once in Kent, than it does now?

If there are to be delays for heavy commercial vehicles in Kent and the need for the use of holding areas, what facilities will be available for use by the drivers of those vehicles from the end of the transition period? Can the Government guarantee now that there will be no issue of insufficient driver welfare facilities, including sanitation, toilets and food, being available from the end of the transition period at the beginning of January? Is it expected that the arrangements provided for in these orders will not be needed at all after the end of October next year, when the orders cease to have effect, or do the Government anticipate having to extend them again?

It is suggested that a reason for delays in Kent could be queues created by extended checking procedures at the port of disembarkation on the other side of the channel, causing blocking back. Is that the case, and by what length of time will journeys for heavy commercial vehicles be extended by new checking procedures at the port of disembarkation on the other side of the channel? Will there be new checking procedures that extend journey times for heavy commercial vehicles travelling in the other direction from France to the UK via Dover or the Channel Tunnel and, if so, will that be as a result of checks this side or the other side of the channel? By how much would journey times be extended on average?

What will be the increase in the number of customs declarations per annum required to be processed in respect of heavy commercial vehicles travelling through Kent en route to the other side of the channel after the end of the transition period, compared with the current annual figure? A question was asked during the debate in the Commons on these regulations about the number of additional customs agents who would be required to manage the increase in customs declarations, but it did not receive an answer. How many customs agents will be required after the end of the transition period, compared with the number needed to handle the current number of customs declarations each year, and how many additional customs agents recruited will be in place from the end of the transition period in some five weeks’ time?

The regulations provide for financial penalties to be imposed on drivers who breach these regulations, most of whom will not be residents of this country. Will there be on-the-spot fines payable immediately, or will there be a set number of days in which to pay? Will a breach of the regulations in all or any cases be regarded as a criminal offence? As my noble friend Lord Whitty and others have asked, is it right that a driver should be fined for having incorrect documentation, which is surely the responsibility of the company sending the goods?

The heavy commercial vehicle sector of the road haulage industry has helped keep our country going during the coronavirus outbreak; in particular, in maintaining essential deliveries of food, medical supplies and other goods. We do not want to see this vital sector hit by chaos at, or near, our major points of exit for UK trade in goods at Dover and the Channel Tunnel. I hope that the Government will be able to respond now or subsequently to the many questions and points that have been raised by noble Lords, including me, during this debate, and provide assurances that chaos at our major point of exit for UK trade in goods is not going to materialise.

Ship Recycling (Facilities and Requirements for Hazardous Materials on Ships) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Rosser Excerpts

Wednesday 18th November 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

I thank the Minister for her explanation of the content and purpose of these draft regulations, which contain provisions that allow for Northern Ireland’s position post Brexit and the potentially divergent regulations on ship recycling that result.

The existing EU regulation on ship recycling, which seeks to ensure that ships flagged in EU countries are recycled only at well-regulated facilities, irrespective of where they are located, is, as the Minister said, one of the provisions listed in the protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland in the withdrawal agreement. As a result, the EU regulation will continue to apply in Northern Ireland as it has effect in EU law, rather than the retained version which applies to the rest of the UK, without any further provision being made.

The existing EU regulation enabled the European Commission to set up a list of approved recycling facilities at which ships may be recycled. Part A of the list covers ship recycling facilities in a member state and Part B such facilities located in a third country. As I understand it, 41 ship recycling facilities are shown on the EU list, of which nine are non-EU facilities. There have been up to four UK ship recycling facilities in Part A of the list at any one time. However, the listing of the three facilities located on the UK mainland will now become void, but the ship recycling facility in Northern Ireland will continue to be listed under Part A of the European list. The three ship recycling facilities on the UK mainland will need to reapply for inclusion in Part B of the European list, as a non-EU third country if they want to continue recycling EU-flagged ships from next year.

The UK Government will be required to set out a list of UK ship recycling facilities and only those on the list can be used for UK ship recycling in Northern Ireland. The ship recycling facilities in Northern Ireland will need to be on the United Kingdom list before they can recycle any UK-flagged ships. The EU and UK list of approved ship recycling facilities can overlap, depending on the separate decisions of the EU Commission and the UK Government.

The draft instrument is intended to ensure that the legal framework relating to ship recycling remains legally operable, with particular regard to the protocol once the implementation period under which the UK continues to be subject to EU rules comes to an end as from the beginning of next year. As the Minister said, the draft instrument also takes account of the need under present EU regulations for existing ships to carry an inventory of hazardous materials before the end of this year. This now becomes part of retained EU law.

I have just a few questions. Where are the present UK mainland and Northern Ireland existing approved ship recycling facilities? Will the existing three UK mainland facilities be reapplying for inclusion on Part B of the European list and, if so, is there any reason to believe that they might not be accepted? Will the Northern Ireland ship recycling facility be on the UK list? Finally, is bringing into force the terms and requirements of this draft regulation likely to have any impact on jobs and workload at any of the existing UK-approved ship recycling facilities?

Railways: Fare Structures

Lord Rosser Excerpts

Tuesday 17th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I refer the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, to my previous response to my noble friend Lord Moylan. However, the Government are very clear that we want punctual and reliable train services, and at a price that is fair to the taxpayer and to the passenger.

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

In August, the Government provided the money to enable people to have cut-price meals, to help restaurants and similar establishments recover from the loss of business as a result of Covid-19 by getting people to eat out again. Do the Government have any similar plans for enabling people to travel at half price, or a significant discount, on our railways for a period of time, as a means of encouraging people to travel by train again after the end of the current lockdown?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord must be reading our minds. Of course, there will be man things that we might want to consider doing once the course of the pandemic is clear and we have come out the other side, and once there are no restrictions on people’s travel. It may be that we introduce certain incentives, because we all know that the best way to travel is on public transport.

Road Vehicles and Non-Road Mobile Machinery (Type-Approval) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Rosser Excerpts

Monday 16th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister for her explanation of the purpose and content of these regulations. As has been said, certain regulations on vehicles and carbon dioxide emission targets are currently regulated by the EU. The draft Road Vehicles and Non-Road Mobile Machinery (Type-Approval) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020 amend temporary regulations from 2019 to enable the continued operation after the transition period of

“vehicle and engine type approval schemes”

in Northern Ireland, to allow vehicles and engines produced in Northern Ireland that meet EU standards to be sold in Britain as well as to permit vehicles over 4 metres to be sold here. The regulations amend the 2019 regulations so that they apply to Great Britain only. There is a need to bring these regulation into effect to enable us to meet our obligations under the Northern Ireland protocol. EU rules relating to vehicle and engine type approved schemes will still apply to Northern Ireland.

The draft New Heavy Duty Vehicles (Carbon Dioxide Emission Performance Standards) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020, in essence, retain two EU regulations regarding heavy duty vehicles’ CO₂ emissions in UK law. One sets out targets for reducing HDV CO₂ emissions and the other sets out monitoring and reporting requirements. As has been said, these regulations apply to the whole of the UK.

The draft Road Vehicle Carbon Dioxide Emission Performance Standards (Cars and Vans) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020 amend retained EU regulations designed to lower CO₂ emissions over the next decade so that the UK Government can regulate emissions from newly registered cars and vans in Great Britain after the transition period ends. In particular, these regulations change the way manufacturers can apply for exemptions from their CO₂ targets. Under the current EU system, manufacturers can apply for an exemption if their total registrations for that year fall below a certain predefined threshold. After the end of the transition period, the UK will give each manufacturer an individual threshold based on its share of EU sales in the UK in—I think—2017.

Car CO₂ emission regulations lowering such emissions that are permitted, backed up by penalties, are an important driver for manufacturers to increase the supply of electric vehicles, and sales of electric cars have grown considerably in the first nine months of this year compared with last year. The Government say they are setting, and will enforce, emissions reductions that are at least as ambitious as under the current EU arrangements for vehicle emissions regulation.

However, the independent Transport & Environment think tank has contested that claim on two principal counts. First, the regulations we are considering use the average mass of cars in the EU to set targets for future carbon dioxide emissions rather than the average mass of cars in the UK. This, Transport & Environment argues, will result in setting lower targets for the UK than under the current EU regime because UK cars are, on average, heavier. Secondly, these regulations allow manufacturers to use an additional 3.5 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometre of super-credits—or free credits—as an additional allowance for producing CO₂ for some battery and plug in-hybrid vehicles that, in many cases, also have internal combustion engines. The effect of this, Transport & Environment says, is that replacing EU regulations with the proposals in these draft regulations will mean that one-fifth fewer electric vehicles will be sold in the UK because the incentive for manufacturers to increase the supply of electric vehicles will be less, as they will not need to produce so many to enable them to comply with the lower carbon emission reduction standard.

As we all recognise, reducing the carbon dioxide produced by road transport needs to be a central priority for government. If it is the case—I repeat, if it is the case—that in reality these regulations in relation to cars and vans water down the existing EU requirements on reductions in CO₂ emissions, that would be a backward step. This question was raised during the debate in the Commons on these regulations, but it did not really get a response from the Commons Minister to the case being made by Transport & Environment and the reasons why that case was either correct or incorrect.

I very much hope that the Minister will be able to address this question in more detail, either in the Government’s response or subsequently in writing. I also await with interest the Government’s response to the questions that have been posed by other noble Lords, not least the important questions raised by my noble friend Lord Whitty on the extent to which we will, in reality, be able to determine our own emissions standards and the phasing out of sales of new petrol and diesel vehicles.

High Speed Rail (West Midlands-Crewe) Bill

Lord Rosser Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee: 2nd sitting : House of Lords & Committee: 2nd sitting
Thursday 12th November 2020 Grand Committee

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Russell of Liverpool) (CB)]

Before I call the next speaker, I ask the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, to be aware that she needs to keep her mute on; otherwise, we will inadvertently see more of her than she wishes us to see.

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

My noble friend Lord Berkeley has spoken about the purpose of his amendment, calling for an independent peer review of the section of the HS2 project covered by the Bill; namely, the connection to phase 1 at Fradley in the West Midlands and to the west coast main line just outside Crewe in Cheshire.

The most recent review—and it is recent—was the Oakervee review, which started off with my noble friend Lord Berkeley playing a prominent role, which then appeared to be downgraded as time went on, until at the end he seemed to be treated as a somewhat peripheral figure. Presumably this was not unrelated to my noble friend’s views about the review and its conclusions.

My Amendment 8 requires the Secretary of State to publish a cost-benefit analysis of HS2 within three months of the Bill becoming an Act, and then to

“publish a revised assessment in each subsequent twelve month period.”

I imagine that the Minister will oppose that but, if so, I hope she will be able to tell me that that is because this will be covered in the new six-monthly reports to Parliament. Obviously, I await her response.

However, I want to raise some points about costs. Are the committed costs for phase 1 now some £10 billion, with that figure being about a quarter of the Government’s estimated total cost of phase 1? If that is an accurate or reasonably accurate figure, would the Government expect committed costs to have already reached some 25% of the total cost of the phase before the permanent works have really got under way? What is the Government’s estimated cost of phase 2a and how much has already been spent and committed? What is now the expected completion date of phase 2a? Are the Government confident that their latest cost-benefit ratio figure for HS2 could never worsen as the project continues—and, one fears, costs rise—to the point where there would be a serious question about the case for HS2? An assurance on that point would be helpful. Is it the Government’s unequivocal position that once the Bill becomes an Act, phase 2a will proceed—no ifs, no buts?

Our position is, and has always been, one of support for HS2. It was no wonder that my noble friend Lord Adonis sought unambiguous assurances on Monday, which he did not appear to get, of the Government’s continuing commitment to complete the eastern leg of HS2 in full, to plan, from Birmingham through the east Midlands to Leeds. It was a Labour Government who got this project off the ground, thanks in particular to the drive and determination shown by my noble friend. However, there needs to be a proper grip on costs once specific figures for expected costs have been announced, which also means that considerable hard evidence-backed thought needs to be given to what, realistically, those expected costs are likely to be, and the same should apply as far as the benefits are concerned.

I suspect that the Government recognise that. In a letter to me of 16 October the Minister said:

“The Government have strengthened the arrangements for governance and accountability for the HS2 project. There is now a dedicated Minister, a cross-government ministerial group and a six-monthly report to Parliament.”


Is the appointment of a dedicated Minister an admission that there has been insufficient ministerial involvement and oversight of the HS2 project and its costs by the Department for Transport for a significant part of the past 10 years? That is what it sounds like. If so, why did Ministers allow that to happen and to drag on for so long? Does the creation of a cross-governmental ministerial group mean an acceptance that there will have been no proper co-ordinated cross-government policy-making at ministerial level and oversight on HS2, including its costs, for a significant part of the past 10 years? Once again, that is what it sounds like. Again, I ask: if so, why did Ministers allow that to happen and to drag on for so long?

I would like to know why the Government think that these new arrangements will strengthen governance and accountability. In what way is governance being strengthened? What particular deficiency in the previous governance arrangements will be plugged by these new arrangements? What positive impact on the HS2 project do the Government expect to result from these new arrangements? In what way do the Government believe that accountability will be strengthened by these new arrangements? Who and what will become more accountable and to whom? What benefits do the Government expect to arise from this strengthening of accountability for the HS2 project? What will be the impact of the strengthened arrangements for governance and accountability on the costs of HS2? If it is expected to be positive—and I assume it is—why will these new arrangements involving Ministers enable costs to be better controlled than they have been under the existing arrangements?

The first of the six-monthly reports to Parliament has reported a further £800 million increase in costs over six months. Are the Government satisfied that the reasons given in the report for the increase in costs could not have been identified much earlier with more extensive preparatory work? If the Government’s answer is that they are satisfied that that is the case, that seems close to an admission that they really do not know what the final cost of HS2 will be since, presumably, further major unexpected developments or problems could continue to arise all the time. If that is the case, we can only hope that such developments and other potential issues affecting costs do not end up exceeding the contingency provision that has been made because, as we have seen and know, opponents of this project are reinvigorated every time there is an announcement of a further non-budgeted increase in costs. That is why controlling costs is important.

I hope that the Government will be able to give some clear answers to the questions I have asked and will explain why and what they believe the new arrangements referred to in the letter of 16 October will deliver in respect of strengthened governance and accountability and much better control over costs of a project we continue to support.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, when I saw the first group for this second day in Committee I thought, “This is going to be Second Reading territory” and, lo and behold, it was the case. I thank all noble Lords for their contributions, which went slightly wide of the amendments in the group, which are essentially about reporting, not about whether or not HS2 should go ahead, although we had a little run around that track as well. I note that the last group on the Marshalled List today is about party walls, and I find that a very exciting prospect and very much hope that we will get there.

As I outlined in my previous responses about the Government’s recent changes to transparency and accountability, we are putting these at the heart of everything we are doing on HS2 because we believe that enhanced reporting measures and ministerial oversight will help. That is not to say that there was a significant deficiency previously, as was suggested by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, but that with all these things good governance is very hard to achieve and incremental improvements to governance structures should be made when they are deemed appropriate.

On Amendment 6, about another report, I think I share the feeling of some noble Lords who have spoken: “Not another one.” There have been several reports on HS2. I believe it is now time to get on and get it built without having another report. Most recently we had the report from Doug Oakervee and his panel and the recommendations therein. The noble Lord, Lord Adonis, mentioned some of the people involved in that report, and I think we all agree that they are people of very high calibre. Indeed, they include the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley. He was on that panel and, as was and is his right, he published his own dissenting report, which of course the Government read and took note of. Is it time now to have yet another report on HS2? I believe that is not the right thing for us to do. We should be looking at the conclusions of the last report, which was written only recently, and putting them into practice. That is why we have Andrew Stephenson as the Minister for HS2 and why we have put in enhanced reporting requirements to Parliament.

The noble Lord, Lord Liddle, mentioned the HS2 board. It is already a strong board, but it has recently been enhanced by representatives from the Treasury and the Department for Transport. That is to make sure that HS2 remains absolutely focused on our priorities and the interests of the British taxpayer. We also have the integrated rail plan, of which the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, is such a fan. That plan is in development and will make recommendations on how best to deliver high-speed rail in the north.

Therefore, the Government do not agree that we need a further report or review—call it what you will— into HS2 at this time. There will be a significant amount of scrutiny to come in any event, given the existing arrangements.

On the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, as I have explained, a new reporting regime has just been put in place that commits the Government to report every six months. The first one was published last month and updated the House on costs and schedule.

I will sidetrack slightly, if I may, on the issue of costs and schedule because I am doing a lot of work around this as there are quite a lot of major projects in my portfolio. In this country, we have a slight issue that we expect to know exactly what the cost and schedule will be on day one. That is not even day one of the build. We seem to want to know what they are going to be on day one when someone has only just thought of the project. That is absolutely impossible with these sorts of large engineering projects.

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[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

We have heard already today about government steps to bring in new arrangements to improve governance, so I hope the Minister will be able to be tell us a bit more about non-disclosure agreements in relation to HS2, because one presumes that has something to do with good governance. My information is that HS2 currently has 342 non-disclosure agreements—that is the figure I have been given—including with businesses and landowners, but that not even a list of the parties with whom those agreements have been made is published, let alone their contents.

Who decides that information relating HS2 is so sensitive that its non-disclosure takes precedence over transparency and the public interest, including, I presume, some information relating to expenditure of taxpayers’ money? Is it the Government who make these decisions? Is it HS2? Is it a party with whom HS2 has a contract or an agreement? What happens if there is a disagreement between parties on whether there should be non-disclosure? Who has the final word?

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[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Watkins of Tavistock) (CB)]

I call the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw. Lord Bradshaw? We will move on and I will call the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, and return to the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, if we can connect with him. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

I shall be relatively brief. My amendment is on a similar theme to the amendment moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, but mine relates more specifically to transport provision in Shropshire and Staffordshire. It refers to the construction and maintenance of the HS2 works and to changes to general passenger movement caused by the works and the implications for railway stations in order to keep it within the scope of the Bill.

Shropshire and Staffordshire are not particularly well placed when it comes to public transport, and it looks as though HS2 phase 2a is going to present considerable upheaval for some residents during construction, and perhaps to a degree afterwards, when there is no direct subsequent benefit to them from HS2 phase 2a, as there will be no stations nearby that will give them easy access to the new high-speed service.

At Second Reading, my noble friend Lord Tunnicliffe raised the lack of transport infrastructure in Oswestry. Since Second Reading, it has been announced that the bus station in Oswestry could close. On the other side of the coin, there are rumours of the Government supporting the reopening of a railway station in Oswestry. Can the Minister say whether the Government would support such a station and obviously then the restoration of a rail link to Oswestry?

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[Baroness Randerson (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, for giving us the opportunity to discuss this issue. In a way, this amendment goes alongside the previous one on NDAs. You wonder why the use of NDAs is apparently routine in an organisation on this scale. The problem with routine use of NDAs is that, while no individual one is possibly downright wrong, the whole oversight of the scheme gets suppressed. Therefore, it becomes difficult to see those early symptoms of things not working as they should.

We must also bear in mind that it is very easy for an organisation the size of HS2 to look overbearing, unfeeling and unreasonable. It is therefore very much in everyone’s interests that it operates as a good business with the highest ethical standards. It is, after all, a programme and a business for the future, producing something that will be at least 10 years in the making. Therefore, it needs to have modern, responsible business practices.

I suggest to the Minister that, while I am sure she will not want to accept the amendment, it would be an idea for the business practices of HS2 to be given a good look, with this amendment and issue in mind.

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

I will be brief. As the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, said, this amendment is about the attitude and approach of HS2. I tried to make a note of some of the things that he referred to. I think he referred to a highly impersonal manner and to the level of control to ensure uniformity of approach when not all cases are similar. I think he referred to the shifting of the burden of proof, to the delaying of payments and to the challenging of decisions line by line. I think he also referred to how it seemed that the Treasury put pressure on the DfT, which put pressure on HS2 regarding finances, and to how eventually all that financial pressure being applied was reflected down the line in the approach to claimants.

I will listen with interest to what the Minister says in reply and, in particular, to whether she accepts that there is validity in what is being said. The noble Earl clearly believes that there is, and I imagine that he is far from the only one who thinks that that is the approach of HS2. I know the Minister will take what has been said seriously. However, I hope very much that she will be able to offer some words that will at least indicate that she will look at the issue and seek to address the concerns raised.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, before I turn to this amendment I need to apologise. There was an error in my speaking note on Monday which I need to rectify. The error was in the statement that I made in relation to Amendment 13, dealing with advance payments of compensation for temporary possession of land. I stated that the Neighbourhood Planning Act 2017 provides for advance payment of compensation in relation to the temporary possession of land and that the amendment was therefore redundant. While it is correct that Section 24 of the Neighbourhood Planning Act 2017 will provide for advance payment of compensation in relation to temporary possession, these provisions will not apply to temporary possession of land under the powers of this Bill. This Bill, like previous hybrid Bills and previous orders under the Transport and Works Act 1992, has a bespoke regime for temporary possession of land which does not provide for advance payments. In my detailed response to the noble Earl, which I have already promised to provide, I will give further details as to the practice of HS2 in respect of the timing of payments of compensation for the temporary possession of land. I will circulate this to all noble Lords who spoke in Committee and place a copy in the Library of the House. I reiterate my sincere apologies that that happened. It will not happen again.

I turn to the amendment. We have heard the underlying concerns which may have led to this amendment and I will set out what the Government are doing about them. Land is needed for the HS2 scheme to build the railway. Some of this land is purchased by agreement but most of the land is acquired through compulsory purchase. This is an unavoidable fact of building most new transport infrastructure and I recognise that, to those affected, it can be devastating. Most individuals affected will accept what the coming of this scheme means for them, come to terms with it and find a way to come to an agreement with HS2 as to when their land will be acquired and what compensation they will receive under the compensation code. For some, they will be happy with the arrangements and agree that their treatment by HS2 has been fair and proper.

However, a few landowners will feel that they have been unfairly treated. They may feel that there is inadequate compensation or that HS2 has not taken due note of their specific individual circumstances. The Government have taken note of those individuals and have been reviewing how they can improve the way in which the project is delivered for all those affected. The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, asked if we would have a good look at the business practices in this area, and we have already committed to do so.

My colleague Andrew Stephenson has instigated a rigorous land and property review to assess the wider concerns that the amendment seeks to ameliorate. The letter provided by the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, will form part of the evidence for that review, and I am pleased to be able to say that this review will be published very shortly. Of course, Sir Mark Worthington OBE, the Independent Construction Commissioner, deals directly with the complains of individuals affected by the project.

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Moved by

[Lord Rosser]

15: Schedule 1, page 29, line 25, at end insert—
“(5) The scheduled works may not commence until the Secretary of State has published a report considering the impact of road traffic resulting from the works.(6) The report must include—(a) an assessment of estimated levels of road traffic resulting from the works;(b) an assessment of the conditions of any roads which may experience an increase in traffic as a result of the works;(c) results from a consultation of residents and local authorities likely to be impacted in each Parish in which the works take place.”

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

This amendment provides that the

“scheduled works may not commence until the Secretary of State has published a report considering the impact of road traffic resulting from the works”,

and goes on to stipulate certain issues that the report must cover, including the

“results from a consultation of residents and local authorities likely to be impacted in each Parish in which the works take place.”

I want to refer to a specific case, which is one reason for my amendment. The Select Committee report contains a reference to a petition from Woore Parish Council, Woore being on the Shropshire/Staffordshire border. The petition focused on the impact on the village of construction traffic, primarily to service the works at the Madeley tunnel site, that would run via the A51 and the A525, which meet at a crossroads in the village itself. This would entail the widening of those roads and other works at certain points. The village shop is right where the lorries will turn and during the day there is likely to be a lorry every five minutes. The Select Committee said that there were important matters affecting the safety of the public and that these needed to be discussed between the parish council, HS2 and Shropshire County Council. It urged all the parties to have those discussions as soon as possible.

I understand that until now engagement by HS2 has been felt locally in Woore to be less than satisfactory. This is far from the first occasion when local communities that are going to be heavily affected by the impact of HS2 construction traffic over a lengthy period have felt that HS2 has been less than understanding and sympathetic to their valid concerns or willing to engage fully with local residents and local authorities to address those concerns and minimise impacts. I am aware of issues of this kind in relation to phase 1, a point to which the noble Lord, Lord Randall of Uxbridge, referred on Monday when he said that even his successor as Member of Parliament for Uxbridge, namely the current Prime Minister, had just as much trouble getting answers out of HS2 as he did. What lessons do the Government think have been and are being learned by HS2 from phase 1 on this key issue of effective and meaningful engagement with local communities? Will those lessons learned be properly applied in phase 2a?

HS2 is a company whose basic purpose is to get the new line built. For it, I suspect, engaging with and addressing concerns raised by local communities about the impact of construction works in particular is a secondary issue compared to what must be major engineering issues associated with construction of the line which it has to address. However, to local communities the impact of construction works on them and their daily lives is the issue associated with the construction of HS2, particularly so when the opening of HS2 brings no obvious direct benefit to their community. Whatever the reality may be, HS2 does not always give the impression to local communities directly affected that it recognises this reality.

My amendment seeks to deal with this point. If the Government decline to accept it, I would like to know why they think it is not needed and why they are so confident that the kind of feelings felt in the village of Woore towards HS2 and its perceived lack of engagement and understanding of the impact of construction traffic on the village will be addressed and how.

The impact on Woore of the construction of HS2 is far from the only concern. Three parish councils have raised major concerns relating to HS2’s plans for the Stone railhead/infrastructure maintenance base. The Select Committee called for discussions as soon as possible between HS2, Shropshire Council and Woore Parish Council. The body most directly affected by the impact of the construction of HS2 is the parish council.

There is now a dedicated Minister for HS2 and a cross-government ministerial group. What will their involvement be in ensuring that HS2 engages properly with local communities such as Woore? Will the impacts on local communities and how they are being addressed be dealt with fully in the six-monthly reports to Parliament? Can the Minister assure me that if Woore Parish Council feels that the discussions which the Select Committee has called for are somewhat delayed or are not being entered into in the spirit and with the intent that the Select Committee clearly envisaged, as the body most directly affected by the impact of the construction of HS2 it can take its concerns about the discussions direct to the dedicated Minister for HS2? I hope the Minister will be able to go some considerable way towards addressing the issue to which my amendment relates. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Henig) (Lab)]

There are no questions to the Minister, so I call the noble Lord, Lord Rosser.

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

I first thank the Minister for her reply and all noble Lords who participated in the debate. I just comment that I made it clear when I made my contribution that it was at the junction of the A51 and the A525 in the centre of the village. I also said that what would be entailed was widening of those roads and other works at certain points and that that junction was right at the centre of the village.

I have perhaps made some progress. It was after all the Select Committee that said that there needed to be further discussion as soon as possible—because safety issues were involved—between HS2, Shropshire Council and the parish council. I was not asking the Minister—nor do I think she took it this way—to immediately intervene. I asked that, now we have a dedicated Minister for HS2 and a cross-government ministerial group, what would be their involvement in ensuring that HS2 engages properly.

This is not the first occasion that we have had local communities saying to us that in their view—rightly or wrongly—they do not feel that HS2 engages as well as it should. I also asked whether, if the discussion with the parish council was either delayed or not being entered into in the spirit and intent that the Select Committee envisaged, it could take its concern to the direct dedicated Minister for HS2. I think that, in her closing comments, the Minister referred to the role of the Minister for HS2 in making sure that there was community engagement. I appreciate that that was on a general basis—she was not talking specifically about this case—but I hope that this is one where, if the parish council still believes that the discussion is not being entered into with the right spirit and with the necessary intent, it would not be dismissed by the dedicated Minister for HS2 if it made an approach to him with its concerns. It is then obviously up to the Minister what he would or would not do in the light of that approach.

Having made those comments, I again thank the Minister for her reply and beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I just want to apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, because I did not hear him mention the road names and now I feel very silly that I did not. I also want to say that in my role as Roads Minister, for example, if a local community feels that Highways England is not engaging with them, they bang on the door of their local MP, the local MP comes to see me immediately and tells me off, I go to tell off Highways England and something gets done. The HS2 Minister will play precisely the same role that I play in making sure that local communities are dealt with properly by whichever delivery body is working with them. We can obviously discuss this with Minister Stephenson shortly, but if I did not explain that particularly well, that is exactly the role I expect him to play.

Rural Bus Services

Lord Rosser Excerpts

Wednesday 11th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is right: an empty double-decker bus careening through narrow country lanes simply will not do. One of the solutions that may be appropriate for rural areas is demand-responsive transport. That is why in September 2019 we launched the £20 million Rural Mobility Fund. We asked for expressions of interest and have had 53. I take great heart from that and at the moment we are reviewing those. We probably do not want to launch them now, in the middle of the pandemic, but we hope that will go on to prove what kind of demand-responsive transport works and what does not, and then we will be able to roll it out more broadly.

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

Half of households on low incomes and two-thirds of jobseekers do not have access to a car. Bus services are also crucial to rural economies and small local businesses. However, a study by Warwick University in 2019 found that over a decade the price of travelling by bus has risen by 39%, way above the level of inflation. Does the Minister accept that this has contributed to the decline in bus passengers and that it has been and is damaging, both socially and economically?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

What the Minister accepts is that we must always strive to improve our bus services. In February 2020 the Prime Minister talked about his view for the bus network, with more high-frequency services and better bus prioritisation. With those two things, one automatically gets lower fares. If we can put all those services on cleaner, greener buses, that will be all to the good.

Covid-19: Transport for London

Lord Rosser Excerpts

Thursday 29th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The congestion charge is a matter for the mayor. He will make decisions in that regard.

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

Prior to the coronavirus pandemic, the Major of London had reduced the TfL operating deficit by 70% and increased its cash balance by 13%, while maintaining fares income over the past four years—a much healthier situation than that left by his predecessor. It is also worth bearing in mind, in the light of what has been said, that London’s net contribution to the Treasury last year was £38.8 billion.

I return to the question raised by noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, which did not get much of an answer. Why are the Government playing awkward over funding for publicly owned TfL? They are providing all the money private train operators in London require through 18-month funding deals with a surplus element built in and few questions asked. Meanwhile, they are seeking to force the Mayor of London to make punitive policy changes affecting Londoners—who have done and continue to do the right thing on Covid-19—as the price for their necessary further financial support. It is not sufficient to say they are different cases; they are very similar.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord mischaracterises the discussions under way concerning the train operating companies and TfL. Various conditions apply to the new train operating company deals—ERMAs—relating to punctuality, management fees and all sorts of things. Of course, that is just one step on the way to further reform. The Government will step in and support TfL to address the decrease in revenues resulting from the pandemic. However, there are elements available to people in London and to TfL staff that are simply not available to the rest of the country. It is not up to the UK taxpayer to pay for those things.

Network Rail’s Enhancements Pipeline

Lord Rosser Excerpts

Wednesday 21st October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord is quite right, and that is one of the reasons why we have investment periods for both rail and roads. This makes sure that the supply chain knows what is coming down the track, so to speak, and is able to respond accordingly. It also gives it certainty that if a project goes through its stages then it will actually happen. One of the biggest challenges we have had previously has been a lack of certainty that projects will happen. The noble Lord will also know that the spending review has been reduced to one year. However, for some of the long-term plans—for example, CP6 for rail—it will be a multi-year settlement.

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

The Government’s HS2 six-monthly report to Parliament referred to £800 million of “cost pressures”. I think that is a euphemism for extra costs which will have to be paid for out of the contingency provision, which at this rate will be used up fairly rapidly. Eight hundred million pounds over six months works out at additional costs of just under £4.5 million every day, or £3,000 every minute. We support HS2, but when do the Government intend to get a grip on its costs? Setting up a ministerial task force chaired by the Secretary of State does not sound like much of an answer to that question.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord is wrong to extrapolate quite as far as he did. We have a relentless focus on controlling costs. He is right that there are some cost pressures from the preparatory works, but we remain confident that HS2 phase 1 can be built within the target cost of £40.3 billion.

Trains: East Midlands

Lord Rosser Excerpts

Monday 19th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government are committed to making improvements to East Midlands commuter travel. The noble Baroness is absolutely right: if we are to get people out of their cars, we need them on the trains. Of course one of our priorities is improving the safety of staff and passengers on trains. We have extra staff to manage flows, extra signage and extra cleaning. I hope that she will agree that if people want to travel to work in the East Midlands by train, they should do so.

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

First, what is government spending on transport overall in the East Midlands region per head of population, compared with the national average on transport per head of population? Secondly, what specific progress has been made over the last five months towards reopening the line from Leicester to Burton to passengers, following the government announcement last May of a fund for feasibility studies on the reopening of lines?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The last figures that I have for investment in transport are £268 per head in the East Midlands compared to £474 per head across England, so there is much more to be done. The steps that the Department for Transport has taken recently will aim to level up the East Midlands in the amount of investment in infrastructure. The line between Leicester and Burton—I believe it is known as the Ivanhoe line—is part of the Restoring Your Railway programme, so the reintroduction of passenger services is being considered. Development of these plans has been funded, and the Department for Transport and Network Rail are working on it with the promoters of the scheme to provide the guidance and support that they need to get a strategic outline business case.

Covid-19: Transport Industry

Lord Rosser Excerpts

Tuesday 6th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government have huge ambitions for the rail industry throughout the country, in both urban and more rural areas. As the noble Lord probably knows, we have entered into emergency measures agreements with the train operating companies to make sure that they can continue to provide those services. With regard to cut-off places— places that no longer have trains—the Restoring Your Railway Fund will support the reopening of railways where possible.

[Lord Rosser (Lab) [V]]

May I return to the question asked by my noble friend Lord Snape? The Minister said that the 20% of the sector involved in school transport was getting support, but what about the other 80%? What additional support will be offered to that 80% of the coach industry, and with what objectives in mind? It includes small operators which, as small businesses, form the backbone of the sector and are really struggling. The Government have yet to tell us what they intend to do to support the great bulk of the coach industry.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government have already put in an unprecedented package of financial support, which has recently been extended through the winter economic plan to make sure that support is provided not only to coach companies but to all sorts of companies across the country. As I said to the noble Lord, Lord Snape, we are working with DCMS to try to open up tourism wherever possible, but coach companies are being innovative and getting business where they can. I recently visited York Pullman, in York, and was heartened to see that it is looking to find more innovative ways back into work. I know it is difficult, and we continue to engage with the coach sector as the pandemic progresses.