Conduct Committee

Lord Rooker Excerpts

Tuesday 20th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rooker (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, as is known, I am not a lawyer. I have found this debate fascinating and interesting. I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Donaghy, for introducing the debate in the way that she did. I want to mention two speeches which have struck me, without going into detail. One was from the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, and the other was from the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope of Craighead. I am not looking for exemptions but, given the proposals in the report, the practicalities of the timing of the particular issue he is involved in are worthy of consideration. I am not looking for exemptions for arbitrators but, in the circumstances of something that was under way before this came on the horizon and which is not due to finish until after the end of December, I could make a special case for that and it is worthy of consideration.

Paragraph 1 makes clear that the report came as a result, as has been said, of the Intelligence and Security Committee’s report on Russia. Published in July 2020, the report was of course completed well before the 2019 general election. Paragraph 54 of that report is the kernel of this, where it sets out certain concerns. These related exclusively to Russia. It says that

“members of the Russian elite who are closely linked to Putin are identified as being involved with charitable and/or political organisations in the UK”,

and we could name them. It goes on to say that

“a number of Members of the House of Lords have business interests linked to Russia, or work directly for major Russian companies linked to the Russian state—these relationships should be carefully scrutinised, given the potential for the Russian state to exploit them.”

I think it went on to say that the code of conduct of the Lords should be made closer to that of the Commons.

The government response to the report is interesting and, of course, it was published on the same day as the report. On paragraph 54, the Government said:

“The Government is confident that the Conduct Committee will give due consideration to the recommendations.”


In other words, get on with it. It was not, “Do nothing about it”, it was, “Get on and do something about it.” In my simple, non-lawyerly view, the case is open and shut. The report should be supported as it is. The reputation of the House of Lords is the most important issue. Of course, individual and professional courtesies apply, as in all walks of life, but they are secondary to the House’s reputation. It is not about perception: the public are not stupid. They can see a dud area when it is put in front of them, and the reputation of the House is subject to massive damage, which undermines the principle of what we do.

We can all make complaints about the size of the House and our procedures, and look for reform, but the fact is that, by and large, it is accepted that we have a right to ask the House of Commons to think again and again on certain issues, and that is a legitimate way—we have had some examples, I understand, from the other place today. I can see, of course, that titles are not unimportant to marketing, legal and other similar services. It is obvious, but why should there be exemptions for lawyers alone? It does not apply to any other professions, such as professional engineers working abroad on massive overseas exercises and projects and Members of your Lordships’ House. The result of the consultation on possible exemption for lawyers is not such that I would agree that the perception on the reputation of the House takes second place, because that is effectively what people are saying. I think it is absolutely clear-cut: if the House wants to put its reputation first, it should support the report.

I also fully accept that we are unpaid. In my case, I am retired on a House of Commons gold-plated pension, so I have no outside interest and I did not work after I left government—and I count the Food Standards Agency in that. So, maintaining outside interests for people coming into the House at a younger age is important. Maintaining the expertise is fine, but who is it for? Is it for the House to share the knowledge, or the individual? I can honestly say that I took the opportunity to check some Hansard records, and at least two Members on the speakers’ list today have not contributed to the House for three years. They have not given the benefit of their expertise to the House. They are on the speakers’ list today; they are not on leave of absence. Let us be clear about this: it is an open and shut case, and there are vested interests galore.

To be honest, I would go further. I do not want to vote for the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, and I hope he will not push it, but I think compulsory leave of absence should take place when working for foreign interests. This would make it clear that active membership of the House is not permitted during this time. The public would understand that, the House would understand that, the media and those who watch the second Chamber would understand that.

If that is the consequence of this, I would go further than the report. But I think the report should be supported. The four independent members were appointed for their expertise. It was a quite deliberate decision to have a large number of independent members on the Conduct Committee when it replaced the old Standards and Privileges Committee. We were expected to take cognisance of their expertise and their view of the reputation of the House. I rest my case in support of the report.