Trade Union Political Funds and Political Party Funding
Debate between Lord Robathan and Lord Whitty
Lord Robathan
My noble friend is absolutely right, but of course, in principle, shareholders vote at a company general meeting and the result is that they do not vote for political donations. Of course, one can sell one’s shares, as indeed one can leave a union, but leaving a union may have implications for one’s employment.
Lord Whitty
My Lords, I am sorry to interrupt the noble Lord—we crossed swords in the committee—but, further to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, does he not recall the evidence before the committee that over the past five years trade unions gave roughly £64 million in political donations? Other organisations gave £80 million, predominantly to the Conservative Party. None of those organisations is required to have a political fund and therefore the issue of opting in or opting out by shareholders or members of those organisations does not apply. Does he regard that as either moral or fair?
Lord Robathan
The noble Lord and I did indeed cross swords but in the committee we heard that these are personal donations. They may be from rich people and one can knock that—
Lord Whitty
My Lords, I am talking about organisations. There are also very rich donors—to all parties but, again, predominantly to the Conservative Party. But I am not talking about individuals, I am talking about other organisations which together donate more than the trade unions do to the Labour Party—to all parties.
Lord Robathan
Perhaps the noble Lord might like to tell me which organisations, without asking their members, donate to the Conservative Party, because I think he may be mistaken.
Lord Whitty
My Lords, the point is this: public companies have to have a vote but there is no requirement to have a political fund and therefore those who oppose the majority vote have no option to opt in or opt out. That is a requirement that applies to trade unions only and it will continue to do so in a rather harsher form if the Bill is passed. Why does the noble Lord not regard that as necessary for other organisations if he is indeed trying to make a point of principle?
Lord Robathan
Funnily enough, I would be very happy to examine that but we did not do so in our committee. I think the noble Lord is saying that he will defend the principle of making people opt out rather than having the opportunity to opt in.
Finally, the recent discussion has just illustrated how well the noble Lord, Lord Burns, did, with good humour, in handling our committee.