China and Japan

Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts

Wednesday 4th February 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful for the opportunity to ask questions on a Statement by our well-travelled Prime Minister. Actually, we on this side do not criticise the Prime Minister for travelling abroad: it is part of his job. What we do criticise is the devastating impact his policies are having on businesses and jobs here at home. The Prime Minister is also right to say that we cannot ignore China, but in our submission the Government are being weak in the face of the threat China poses to the UK and more widely to the West. Of course, we must engage, but this is not how it should be done. Too many key cards were given away before the visit for almost nothing in return.

Yes, a cut in whisky tariffs and visa-free access—something which many other countries already enjoy—are welcome, but are they the hard-fought victories that come from serious negotiation? I do not think so; though I think the leader of the Liberal Democrats may actually join me when I reflect that I am encouraged to think that at least some in the Chinese leadership might be eased by the civilising impact of the best whisky in the world. The problem is that, before he got on the plane, China had already gained the prize of a mega-embassy here, right in the heart of our capital. It also continues to fund Putin’s war machine. Can the noble Baroness say—and I know the Prime Minister raised this point—whether he feels that we made any progress in reducing China’s support for Russia’s illegal war?

Of course, China continues its oppression of the Uyghur people, who have suffered so much for too long. Did we get any guarantees that any increase in Chinese exports will not be produced by modern slave labour?

The Prime Minister claimed in the Statement that the previous Government were isolationist. I ask: who was first on the front line with Ukraine before and while Putin invaded? If we are talking of Asia and the Pacific, who took Britain into CPTPP? That is the very Indo-Pacific theatre that the Prime Minister rightly visited. We on this side believe strongly that we should look to Asia and the Pacific.

The Government tell us that we need a thawing in our relations with China. Of course, we wish for good relations with all nations, but fine words butter no parsnips. We must not forget that this is a country that spies on us, steals intellectual property and frequently launches cyber attacks.

We welcome that the Prime Minister raised words of protest about the totally unacceptable incarceration of Jimmy Lai. When will we know what comes of that? Did the Prime Minister, who is forthright on the importance of law and justice, condemn China’s flagrant and continuing breaching of treaties on Hong Kong and its oppression of people there?

We are told that China agreed no longer to sanction the noble Lord, Lord Alton of Liverpool, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws. Stopping doing one wrong thing is fine and dandy, but when will China answer the cries of those noble Lords and of so many in this House for an end to the terrible wrong of the appalling treatment of the Uyghur people?

Can the Lord Privy Seal assure us that the Prime Minister raised Chinese intellectual property theft with President Xi during their meeting? This is a grave and continuing problem. What assurances may we have secured on the cyber attacks launched by Chinese state actors? When will they end, and who will be punished?

I turn to Chinese espionage. We all know for a fact that agents of the Chinese state seek and have sought to spy on our Parliament. Did the Prime Minister raise China’s espionage in Parliament with President Xi, and did he receive any assurances on that subject?

In the light of the Government’s statement that they are inviting police to review Lord Mandelson’s alleged sharing of government information with foreign agents and foreign actors, can the Lord Privy Seal confirm that any inquiry will review all possible leaks, not just in the United States but to China and other nations?

I have a specific question that I accept the Lord Privy Seal may not be able to answer specifically now —but I ask her to write to me. Did the Prime Minister meet Jingye, the owner of British Steel? Will she say what was discussed about the future of British Steel? If not, why not, given that the Government are injecting working capital at an annualised rate of roughly £500 million? When can we expect the steel strategy, promised in 2025, by the way?

While the Prime Minister was on his visit, more concerns about the Government’s Chagos deal were being raised here at home and in Washington. Beijing’s ambassador to Mauritius has previously welcomed the treaty as a “massive achievement” and said that China “fully supports” the agreement. Did President Xi or any Chinese officials express their support for the Prime Minister’s Chagos treaty to him during his visit? Can the noble Baroness confirm that 6,000 Mauritian officials, some of whom would take control of Chagos under this deal, have been trained by China? Was there any discussion of that? In addition to such growing Chinese influence in Mauritius, there is the threat of Chinese spy boats breaching the marine protected area around the Diego Garcia base. All these are serious matters on which Chinese-British relations are engaged. Can she shed any light on discussions on Chagos in China?

On a more positive note, we wholeheartedly welcome the Prime Minister’s visit to Japan. As I say, such visits are part of a Prime Minister’s job. We share the Government’s wish to see deeper ties and growing collaboration with our Japanese partners, with whom we have such a strong and mutually beneficial relationship as trading partners through CPTPP and in defence through the Global Combat Air Programme. Can the noble Baroness the Lord Privy Seal assure us the UK remains fully committed to the GCAP? The Prime Minister is right to strengthen our relationship with Japan and, in developing that critical alliance, he will always have our support.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, these Benches believe the Government should engage internationally, and the Prime Minister likewise, to operate with allies and competitors alike. But when it comes to competitors who have been proven to also be adversaries and security risks, that engagement, if transactional, must actively de-risk.

On the Chinese risk to our economy and Parliament, and of industrial espionage, the relationship did not start when this Government took office. Indeed, part of the task should now be to try to remove some of China’s enhanced ability to operate that was in place under the previous Government. If the Government are playing a hand of cards badly now, the entire pack had been given previously to Beijing. We had the biggest trade deficit with China of any country in the history of our trade, peaking under Liz Truss at a trade deficit of over £50 billion. That meant our trading relationship was so out of balance that our ability to lever in any transactions was greatly reduced. I understand if the Government are seeking to reset the relationship, perhaps without going back to the “golden era” that George Osborne heralded in 2015, but a realistic one should ensure that we de-risk our relationship with China. Part of that would be ensuring that those who live in this country are not threatened by another country and do not have bounties placed on them. Did the Prime Minister state to President Xi that putting a bounty on anyone in this country is both utterly unacceptable and should be criminalised? Did we get an assurance that they will be lifted and never put in place again? Diplomacy is good; however, actions on this are necessary.

As we heard, we have been warned by MI5 of commercial espionage by China on an industrial scale. One of the key areas is our education sector, so can the Leader of the House be clear that we are confident of our intellectual property rights in any new relationship with China going forward? I read with a degree of concern that we are starting the process of a service trade agreement feasibility study. I asked the Minister for Development about this, highlighting that the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats were as one before the last general election in seeking human rights clauses in trading agreements. Can the Leader of the House confirm that, if we are to have any service trade agreement with China, there will be human rights clauses within it and clear intellectual property protections?

On the embassy, there have been reports that the Prime Minister’s visit was not confirmed unless and until the embassy was approved. Ministers have said that only material planning issues were considered. Can the Leader of the House be clear and deny that there was any diplomatic communication with Beijing about the embassy?

If there is one element we have seen recently in Beijing’s purge of the military, it is the more belligerent tone on the regional areas of concern. It was a great pleasure this afternoon to meet with one of our Taiwanese sister party’s MPs to discuss the enhanced concern in Taiwan about that belligerent tone. The Prime Minister said in the House of Commons that he had raised the issue of Taiwan. Can the Leader of the House outline a little more what we raised? This is an opportunity to enhance our trading relationship not only with Beijing but with Taiwan, as being a friend of Taiwan does not mean being an enemy of China. When it comes to the key sectors of semi-conductors, technology and educational research, Taiwan is a trusted partner with strong institutions, the rule of law and human rights—and it is a democracy. Therefore, our relationship should be enhanced, but not at the cost of the relationship with China. Did President Xi seek to put pressure on the UK to diminish our relationship with Taiwan? That would be a very retrograde step.

On Japan, the situation is very positive. Our relationship is strong and can be enhanced, and I welcome the Government’s moves to do so. The Leader of the Opposition mentioned the Global Combat Air Programme; more information on timing and costs would be most helpful. Will the defence investment plan reflect the Tempest programme and the practical arrangements?

Finally, on whisky, for which both the noble Lord and I have a fondness, I agree that the situation is positive. Any deal that enhances the Scotch whisky industry is a good one. I remind noble Lords that, while it is beneficial that Beijing tariffs will be reduced, our most profitable and valuable malt whisky market in the world is Taiwan, and that should be a lesson for us.

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Smith of Basildon) (Lab)]

I am grateful to both noble Lords for their comments. Those from the noble Lord, Lord True, clearly underline the fundamental difference between the party opposite and us. Let us just start from where we are. The fundamental difference is that the party opposite went from a golden age of engagement to an ice age of engagement. Noble Lords referred to resetting the relationship with China. I do not think it is a reset; it is establishing a relationship that has been absent for the last eight years. I have to say to the noble Lord opposite that if the only countries he wants the Prime Minister to engage with are those with which we are in 100% agreement on every issue, it does this country a great disservice. Only through engagement with countries with which we have differences will we make progress, for the benefit of this country, on the kinds of issues the noble Lords have spoken about.

It is a choice we make. For eight years, the party opposite made the choice not to engage or have prime ministerial visits. We have made a different choice, in the national interest. That does not in any sense mean that we are not going to raise, and did not raise, important issues of concern regarding security, human rights and individuals. The only way you resolve those issues is by dialogue. You are not going to make all the progress needed or resolve all the issues the first time you establish dialogue, but if you do not make that start, nothing is going to happen. I do not much see evidence of the last eight years of disengagement working for the benefit of this country. If we look at other countries, this country has stood back in the last eight years. President Macron visited China three times, and the German leader visited four times, and the USA and Canada have plans in place. Engagement is possible and provides a new opportunity to develop a new, different kind of relationship, as the noble Lord alluded to.

Both noble Lords raised the issue of the embassy. I do not think I need to remind this House that decisions on planning issues are quasi-judicial and taken in that context. It is not a matter for the Prime Minister; it is a matter for the Secretary of State.

The decision must be taken on planning grounds, but issues of national security can be taken into account. It might assist the House if I read a short comment from a longer letter from GCHQ and the security services. I remind noble Lords that there have been Chinese embassies in this country since, I believe, 1788. Those embassies are currently across seven different sites across the UK. In terms of the benefits we get, the letter I have to the Secretaries of State from the security services and from GCHQ says that the consolidation should bring “clear security advantages”. That is important to note.

Also, when the Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament looked at that, where issues of process were raised, it concluded that

“the national security concerns that arise can be satisfactorily mitigated”.

That shows how seriously the Government take this issue. That does not mean we are not alive to other security issues, but the advice from GCHQ and MI5, and from the Intelligence and Security Committee, is something we should take note of.

The noble Lord, Lord True, raised the issue of sanctions and the righting of a terrible wrong. Yes, he is right and it is important that China has done so. It is absolutely appalling that any sanctions should remain on parliamentarians at all. There are still further discussions on how much further we can take that but, in terms of making progress, it is an important first step to have made.

The noble Lords asked about a range of issues. As I was not in the room, I cannot give a complete readout of who said what and what the response was. What I think is the most important thing, however, is how these issues were raised. The issue of the Uyghurs and the issue in Hong Kong and of Hong Kong residents in this country are issues we cannot accept in any way at all. It is a terrible situation. It is something the Prime Minister felt very strongly about and, along with the imprisonment of Jimmy Lai, it was on the Prime Minister’s agenda and was raised and discussed.

On Jimmy Lai, it is worth saying that what his family must be going through and what he must be going through is completely and totally unacceptable. He is a British citizen, he is in poor health and he should be at home with his family. We will continue to raise this. It is sad that lack of engagement, saying, “We do not agree with you”, has not made any progress. The only way we can make progress is by having that engagement. But there can be no doubt at all about the strength of feeling from the Prime Minister and others on this issue.

I am running out of time, so I will quickly try to address the many other questions in a couple of minutes. Yes, we remain fully committed to GCAP; yes, the issues of British Steel are at the forefront of the Prime Minister’s mind; and yes, of course, it is important for the whisky industry. Perhaps I can just make a plea for Northern Ireland whiskey as well; I am not a whiskey drinker, but I understand that Bushmills would be my favourite if I were. My Northern Ireland colleagues may not be here, but I see there is a Bushmills drinker here.

Taking this forward, security is very important. We have been unequivocal in our support for Taiwan. On Ukraine, the Prime Minister spoke to President Zelensky before he went to China—before he raised Ukraine with President Xi. He spoke to President Zelensky afterwards as well. We are being very clear about our support for Ukraine. We do not in any way condone, support or even accept China’s support for Russia on this. It is quite clear the Prime Minister made that point.