Firearms Bill

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 14th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, I too congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Colgrain, on his precise introduction of this Bill and on clearly setting out the elements of it. I also congratulate his honourable friend Shaun Bailey for piloting it through the House of Commons.

The Opposition welcome this Bill. It is said that the UK has one of the toughest systems in the world for regulating the ownership of firearms. Nevertheless, our laws and regulations need to remain fit for purpose and be updated regularly. The licensing system currently in force dates back more than 50 years. It was established by the Firearms Act 1968. Despite the importance of the 1968 Act, it took the tragedies of mass shootings in Hungerford and Dunblane to prompt further action to tighten our laws in the 1980s and 1990s. Today, the memories of five people—Maxine Davison, Stephen Washington, Kate Shepherd, Lee Martyn and Lee’s three year-old daughter Sophie, who were shot dead in Plymouth in August 2021—cast a shadow over today’s debate on this Bill.

As we have heard from the noble Lord, Lord Colgrain, Clause 1 would make limited changes to the scope of provisions in the Firearms Act on the use of weapons at shooting ranges and galleries. The question is whether these changes go far enough. For instance, the Government’s response to a consultation published last July announced plans to introduce a new requirement for operators of miniature rifle ranges to be issued with a firearms certificate. The response noted that this would require changes to primary legislation but did not give a timescale.

Clause 2 would introduce a new offence of possessing component parts of ammunition with intent to manufacture. This reflects a recognition that the law as it stands has not kept pace with changes in technology over recent years. Again, the changes do not appear to have gone as far as they could have gone. For instance, the offence created by Clause 2 would apply to ownership of four primary components: bullets, cartridge cases, primers and propellants.

My honourable friend Stephen Kinnock asked the Minister, Chris Philp, to state

“whether he is confident that even with those changes, the law would adequately reflect the application of recent technological developments such as 3D printing and other evolving technologies”.

The Minister confirmed that

“3D printed weapons—either the weapons themselves or the components thereof—are treated the same as regular weapons”.—[Official Report, Commons, 3/3/23; cols. 1075-76.]

I would be grateful if the Minister can confirm that the provisions of this Bill will be kept under review as the technology of firearms evolves. I note that the new offence envisaged by Clause 2 would require evidence of an intent to use components to manufacture ammunition. What can the Minister tell us about the standard of proof that will apply when determining intent? How might attempts to evade detection be addressed as part of efforts to tackle such offences?

Finally, there are a number of important issues that the Bill does not address. I therefore have a number of questions for the Minister. Do the Government plan to establish a new independent regulator for firearms licensing? Can we have an update on progress towards implementing the Government’s commitment to a national accredited training scheme for firearms inquiry officers? When will the new curriculum be introduced? What changes, if any, do the Government plan to make to the licensing process at national level? Will changes be made to the application fees for firearms certifications, which are currently between £70 and £80, to reflect more accurately the cost of processing the applications, which can exceed £500?

What steps will be taken to address the apparent surge in the number of temporary permits—which, according to recent reports, is a direct consequence of backlogs in the system—to fully ensure that weapons do not get into the wrong hands? How will wider policy challenges, such as the urgent need for more effective action to tackle online radicalisation, be addressed in the weeks ahead? Will the Minister consider changes to the Online Safety Bill to strengthen the law in that area? The fear is that loopholes and weaknesses in our firearms laws will not be addressed until it is too late.

The Minister in the House of Commons stated that

“the Government are waiting for the prevention of future deaths report from the Plymouth coroner … We will also consider the recommendations made by the Independent Office for Police Conduct, as well as a report by the Scottish Affairs Committee prompted by a tragedy that took place on the Isle of Skye”.

We heard about that earlier. The Minister concluded that

“the Government will respond substantively within 60 days of receiving that prevention of future deaths report, which we believe we will receive in the very near future”.—[Official Report, Commons, 3/3/23; col. 1076.]

Can the Minister update us on that expected timetable?

My noble friend Lord Browne of Ladyton said that he supported the Bill and raised the issue of single-shot 3D weapons. I will add that, from my experience as a magistrate, in both adult and youth courts, when it comes to weapons used in incidents, what is most prevalent is the use of toy weapons, which are very often not easily distinguishable from real weapons, particularly when they are painted black and concealed in some way. I take it that this Bill does not seek to address that in any sense: nevertheless, that is what I actually see when I am sitting in court dealing with firearms-related offences. Does the Minister have any comment on that?

Otherwise, I support the Bill.

Firearms Bill

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede Excerpts

3rd reading
Monday 18th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Colgrain (Con)]

My Lords, if your Lordships should pass the Bill today, it will not go back to the Commons but will go straight to His Majesty the King for Royal Assent.

I will be most brief in summarising its contents. It is in two parts. The first will require any person who operates a miniature rifle range to have been granted a firearms certificate by the police—that is not the situation hitherto. It will also restrict the gauge of rifle used to .22 rimfire. The second relates to the composition of ammunition. A round of ammunition comprises four constituent parts, only two of which are governed by current legislation, so the Bill will regulate for the two which are currently omitted. That means that the police will be better able to prosecute cases where criminals are manufacturing ammunition where intent is shown.

I am very grateful to the Government, my noble friend the Minister and all noble Lords from all parties who have, to date, provided cross-party support for the Bill. I especially thank Shaun Bailey MP, who introduced the Bill in the other place, and all those who have been involved in bringing the Bill through the parliamentary process to this point.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Colgrain, on piloting the Bill through this House.

In the House of Commons, the Labour Party moved three amendments, and at the time the Minister said that, given the narrow scope of the Bill, it was not the right place to move them. Nevertheless, I will repeat the three points raised. The first amendment was that social media should be taken into account when considering whether to issue a firearms licence. The second was that family members of a certificate holder who is an operator of a firearms range or shooting gallery should be issued certificates only after they are interviewed as part of a household application process. The third was that any regulations relating to fees or licensing under Section 11 of the Act relating to miniature rifle ranges must require payment equal to the expected cost of issuing the licence. I understand the answer given in the other place to those three amendments, but I ask that the department keeps these issues in mind as the Bill turns to an Act and when any subsequent amendments are considered in the future.