Education System

Debate between Lord Pearson of Rannoch and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Wednesday 30th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, I think it is the turn of the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, followed by the noble Lord, Lord Baker.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I am most grateful. Can I ask the Minister whether the Government are impressed by the ideas and achievements of Katharine Birbalsingh? If so, what are they doing to see that her methods are more widely followed in our state education system?

Anti-terrorism Policy

Debate between Lord Pearson of Rannoch and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Tuesday 17th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government do not currently plan to conduct an inquiry into the accuracy of the website. UK legislation values free speech and enables people who wish to engage in debate to do so, regardless of whether others agree with the views being expressed. However, freedom of speech cannot be used as a reason to break the law or to spread intolerance and hate.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply, but I fear it shows that the Government still have their head in the sand about the realities of Islamism. Does the Minister accept that we can say what we like about any other religion but our freedom of speech is curtailed when we try just to talk about Islam and are promptly accused of Islamophobia? Secondly, do the Government think that they are really doing enough to encourage and support our brave Muslims who do not agree with the Islam revealed by the Religion of Peace website, and who want to follow a reformed version, at peace with the rest of us? Would not the proposed inquiry contribute much to their cause?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, as I said, we do not intend to institute an inquiry into this website. If he so wishes, the noble Lord can refer the website to the counterterrorism referral unit that looks at websites that might contravene counterterrorism legislation, to have it taken down. But freedom of speech is not an excuse to break the law or to stir up hatred. It is right that hate speech is not acceptable in this country.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Without calling out any particular party, anybody who engages in anti-Semitism, Islamophobia or any other type of hatred should be condemned. It is up to all political parties to show leadership to this end. The noble Lord is absolutely right that there is an almost perfect storm of far-right and Islamist-type extremism, whose messages are similar but opposite in tone. It provides a perfect melting pot, as he says.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, if no other noble Lord wishes to enjoy this Question, I wonder if I might ask another. Does the Minister agree with the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury, who said recently that we will never defeat Islamism if we do not understand Islam?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

There is something in that question, around theological learning and teaching in this country, which can be derived from several parts of the world, each having their own interpretation of Islam. I totally agree with the point that we need more experts in the field of Islam, particularly in prisons and other places where ignorance can proliferate the wrong teaching.