Schools: Curriculum Update

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Thursday 8th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate makes a very important point. The House is obviously familiar with the emphasis we have put on freedom of speech, particularly in our higher education institutions, but the skills of critical thinking, analysis and debate—which data will feed into in coming to objective and balanced views and an ability to listen to others—obviously need to start in our schools and homes.

[Lord McNally (LD)]

My Lords, these exchanges have already pinpointed the problem that the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, is trying to highlight. The skills required by the next generation to understand and deal with new technologies are real and present now. Quite frankly, the list he put forward of skills to be acquired are beyond the reach of a single department, including the Department for Education. His idea of a commission, possibly sponsored by the Prime Minister, who has skills in this area, is now needed to avoid moving into another era when most of our population are ill-equipped to deal with the technologies serving them.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

It would help to understand some of the specific areas of concern. Data and its use are firmly embedded in the mathematics, science, geography and computing curriculums. Computing is a statutory national curriculum subject from key stage 1 to key stage 4. We have introduced, and are introducing, a number of digital-focused T-levels. The fundamental point is that, as shown in the OECD PISA surveys, without strong mathematics and reading, you cannot achieve literacy in any of these things. That is why our focus on those building blocks is so crucial.

Safeguarding of Young Children

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Tuesday 24th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am sure that the noble Lord’s suggestion may be part of the solution, but to expect any single thing to resolve these difficult and complex problems will not be sufficient, hence the more comprehensive approach that we are taking.

[Lord McNally (LD)]

My Lords, when I became a Minister with some of these responsibilities more than a decade ago, my noble friend Lady Walmsley gave me two pieces of advice. First, she said, “Always remember that social workers do not murder children, although they sometimes get the opprobrium when something wrong happens.” The other piece of advice was that the interest of the child comes first.

With that as a background, last year, Emily Dugan, the social affairs correspondent at the Sunday Times, ran a series of articles about mistakes being made through either misdiagnosis or misinformation where children were taken away from families with traumatic results. Will the report that we are expecting on Thursday cover this element, because it causes problems for the families affected and puts additional burdens on social workers instead of concentrating on the children in real danger?

Channel 4: Funding and Governance

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Thursday 1st July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

There is no doubt that Channel 4 has performed very well recently but, as I mentioned in an earlier answer, all linear broadcasters are facing significant challenges from developments and disruption in the sector, including from international players. The consultation will give us the time and the information to consider how Channel 4’s future is best served.

[Lord McNally (LD)]

My Lords, is it not quite clear that the Secretary of State and Mr Whittingdale support public service broadcasting like the rope supports the hanging man? Is it not time that the one-nation Tories stood up for one of the great creations of Willie Whitelaw, an organisation that has fulfilled its remit in spades?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Lord will be aware that I have often quoted both my right honourable friend the Secretary of State and the Minister for Media and Data, who have both been absolutely clear about wanting to see a thriving PSB sector, which is particularly important in a time of misinformation and disinformation.

BBC: Freedom of Information Legislation

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Thursday 24th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The consultation we recently announced on the ownership structure of Channel 4 and the potential regulation of video on demand services is forward-looking and aims to ensure the long-term success of Channel 4 into the future. As for transparency, we will of course publish the government response to the consultation.

[Lord McNally (LD)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister’s emphasis on, and welcome for, the initiatives taken by the new chairman and director-general to increase transparency and freedom of information within the BBC. I wish her well in resisting knee-jerk reactions from her own Benches, and from strange places on this side, in reviewing the future of the BBC.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I think the majority of my colleagues on these Benches have echoed the sentiments of the Secretary of State and my right honourable friend the Minister for Media and Data when they have said, again and again, that the need for a strong PSB system and trusted journalism has never been stronger.

Public Representatives: Online Abuse

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Wednesday 16th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government are clear that abuse is unacceptable, whether anonymous or not. Our intention is to try to address that.

[Lord McNally (LD)]

My Lords, all our thoughts are with the Cox family today. Does the Minister agree that what we now know makes it more and more clear that the report of the noble Lord, Lord Puttnam, for this House, Digital Technology and the Resurrection of Trust, should be included in the work of both the pre-legislative scrutiny committee and the final Bill committee?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

As the noble Lord knows, we look forward to pre-legislative scrutiny starting. It will be up to that panel to decide what they will cover within it.

Music Festivals: Covid-19-related Cancellations

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Tuesday 27th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am extremely happy to clarify those points. There are a number of interlocking issues—the noble Lord smiles, but it is true—into which we are carrying out reviews. I refer to the events research programme to understand the impact on public health as a result of those events; our review on social distancing; our review on certification and, which is connected, the global travel review.

[Lord McNally (LD)]

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, pointed out, the sector has already been impacted by the failure of the Brexit negotiations to protect the creative industries. In the Minister’s reply today, she did not say no—she said perhaps. Is it not time to stop squirming? We are now into April and this sector needs a decision.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

We are not squirming and we are not hesitating. We are progressing as fast as we can, but the noble Lord would be the first to criticise the Government if we opened too early and the public health crisis re-emerged.

Football: European Super League

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Tuesday 20th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I do not think that the owners of the clubs to which the noble Lord refers can be in any doubt about the strength of feeling both from the fans and from this Government.

[Lord McNally (LD)]

My Lords, will the Minister ask Tracey Crouch to hold public hearings around the regions while she conducts her inquiry?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am sure that she will consider all her options to make sure that this is a transparent and effective review.

Social Media: Offensive Material

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Tuesday 23rd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Lord is right to raise the issue of the general public and the troubling example that he just shared with the House. However, banning anonymous accounts is not as simple as he suggests. They provide important protection for a wide range of vulnerable people, as well as journalists’ sources and others—so these are complex issues that we aim to address through the Bill.

[Lord McNally (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I am interested in the Minister’s comment that the department is in discussions with the police about the use of existing powers. Would it not be a good idea for the police to pursue a number of high-profile cases of bullying of children, rampant racism or threats to our democracy under existing powers until we get the proper legislation in place?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Just to be clear, I was speaking on behalf of the Government in conversation with the police. The noble Lord will be aware that the primary responsibility for this matter sits with the Home Office. The police are independent in how they pursue these cases.

Office of Communications: Chair

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Thursday 18th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government are supportive of a modern system of public service broadcasting that remains relevant and continues to meet the needs of UK audiences in future. Obviously, Ofcom, with its regulatory role in this capacity, is a crucial part of delivering this.

[Lord McNally (LD) [V]]

My Lords, earlier this week the Government published their external review, which said that the BBC is the most trusted broadcaster in the world. Is it not about time they started showing that they believe that in their statements and policies?

Australia: News Media and Digital Platforms Mandatory Bargaining Code

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Thursday 25th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I fear I might be growled at by colleagues in the House if I answer the noble Lord’s question in full, so I will write to him with more detail on the online safety Bill. However, as he is aware, it will focus on user-generated content, platforms that allow user interaction, and search engines. More broadly on competition, the regime will lead to an enforceable code of conduct that will stimulate competition and innovation.

[Lord McNally (LD) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister has referred several times to the CMA’s digital markets unit as one of the weapons that will be at our disposal, but the CMA has called for new statutory powers for that unit. Will she commit to those statutory powers being included in the online harms Bill, which has just been referred to, as new powers for the digital markets unit?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The statutory powers for the digital markets unit specifically relate to the code of conduct and how it will apply to platforms that have strategic market status. If I have understood the noble Lord’s questions correctly, those are separate from the online harms Bill, but those powers will be put on a statutory basis.

Television Licence Evasion

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Tuesday 26th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Baroness is right that there is a very important reform agenda. In their responses, the general public were roughly split evenly; those reporting through campaign groups were definitely —though I see the noble Baroness is shaking her head —in favour of the status quo. But we will not allow this to distract us; there is a great deal of effort going into looking at the current reform programme at the BBC.

[Lord McNally (LD) [V]]

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that it is time to stop raiding the BBC licence fee for worthy causes when such actions do irreparable damage to the BBC’s capacity to maintain its support of our creative industries? Would the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, and the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, not be better employed supporting the charity StepChange in its campaign to have Clause 34 in the upcoming Financial Services Bill 2019-21, which gives statutory support and advice to those who get into debt?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My Lords, there is no raid going on of the BBC; quite the reverse. We are working towards much more transparency around the licence fee settlement and my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has written to the director-general of the BBC asking for a breakdown of spend against the five charter purposes, so that we can work with a transparent and clear focus.

UK Musicians: EU Visa Arrangements

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Wednesday 20th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his questions. I do not think the red lines were between DCMS and the Home Office; I think they were between the UK and the EU. We proposed a tailored deal for musicians and other cultural professionals and the EU did not accept it. On the correspondence and the discussions, my noble friend the Minister for Digital and Culture said yesterday in the other place that she would talk to BEIS and Home Office colleagues with a view to publishing the details of those discussions. On the noble Lord’s final point, we are consulting extensively with the sector to understand what it needs to be able to thrive once we emerge from the pandemic.

[Lord McNally (LD) [V]]

My Lords, that explanation just does not fit with all the briefings that have gone on on both sides of the channel about what really happened. What really happened is that the Government were inflexible in the TCA for fear of the European Research Group and other Brexit zealots anxious to protect the purity of Brexit. The Government have got to go back to the table on this. My advice to musicians would be to mobilise the millions of supporters, particularly among the young, who should be outraged at the betrayal of this important sector.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am surprised at the noble Lord’s remarks, because our inflexibility, as he describes it, was simply that we tried very hard in the negotiations to stand up for Britain’s brilliant cultural and creative sectors, and to reflect their request to us about what they needed from the deal. Perhaps the remark about inflexibility could be pointed elsewhere.

Online Harms Consultation

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Wednesday 16th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The legislation will be ready next year. We will make final decisions on legislative timings nearer the time, but I think that my noble friend will have heard that the Secretary of State is minded to carry out pre-legislative scrutiny. I appreciate that some time has been taken on this. As my noble friend knows, we have taken a deliberately consultative approach on the Bill but are now working at pace to implement it.

[Lord McNally (LD) [V]]

[Inaudible.]

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord McNally (LD) [V]]

My Lords, not guilty, but happy to get in. Earlier this year, the noble Lord, Lord Puttnam, chaired a committee of this House which produced the report Digital Technology and the Resurrection of Trust, about the damage caused to our political and democratic system by online harm. The Government are choosing to ignore this. Does that not leave a massive stable door in the legislation? Will she assure me that the noble Lord, Lord Puttnam, will be able to give evidence to pre-legislative scrutiny to make the case for action in this area?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The issue of political and democratic trust is obviously incredibly important. As I mentioned, trust has been severely eroded by social media companies and other platforms. By restoring that trust and managing the content that could be physically or psychologically harmful, we will help to narrow that gap.

Public Service Broadcasting Online

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Wednesday 9th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government are actively working with all the key stakeholders in this area—the TV manufacturers, the platform gatekeepers and the PSBs—but I am afraid I cannot give the noble Baroness a firm date.

[Lord McNally (LD) [V]]

My Lords, will the Minister explain to some of the Neanderthals on her own Benches in both Houses that support for public service broadcasting includes giving stimulation to our creative industries and giving voice to our national and regional identities in ways that the big international providers never will?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I have to say that I do not recognise the description the noble Lord gives of either my noble friends behind me or those in the other place. We absolutely recognise the importance of the investment in our creative industries of more than £2.5 billion a year, and we welcome that and the ecosystem it creates.

Streaming Platforms: Age Ratings

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Tuesday 8th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Ofcom in particular uses the on-demand programme service code in relation to these platforms. With regard to the noble Lord’s second question, the issues raised around encryption are incredibly important; that is a vital part of our digital world and we need to find a solution. We are working with the industry to find a solution which does not risk child safety but which permits security and cybersecurity.

[Lord McNally (LD) [V]]

My Lords, is it not already clear that the British Board of Film Classification has tremendous respect from the public, and should not the Government bring the board into closer co-operation with the CMA, Ofcom and the Information Commissioner as we map out the legislation that is promised? As has been shown this morning, we need their expertise.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am very happy to take those suggestions back to the department.

Sport Sector: Financial Support

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Wednesday 25th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

On the first part of the noble Lord’s question about review dates for increasing the number of spectators, those decisions are clearly not taken in isolation and will be part of wider decision-making on what is allowed within different tiers as we move forward. I fear I cannot add more on that point at the moment.

The Government well understand the importance of levelling up and of sport within it. There was obviously a very important infrastructure announcement in the Chancellor’s speech today of £4 billion directed to levelling up, but more specifically, on sport, there have been two important contributions to rugby league so far. We continue to value its contribution and see it as a critical part of rebuilding a sense of pride in local communities.

[Lord McNally (LD) [V]]

As the Minister will have gathered, there is very widespread support for this announcement. But will she make sure that the Government follow where the money is going and ensure that all the recipients pay a proper contribution to diversity and community activity where they are located, because that is why they have such widespread support?

The other thing is the dog that is not yet barking in the night: whether the Premiership will cough up enough money for first and second division football, which have many clubs in communities in real danger. I again put the idea of the Government threatening a windfall tax on transfer fees and television money if the Premiership does not get more realistic about the kind of help it will give.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an important point about following where the money is going. Part of the role of the independent board is to do just that. On the Premiership, as I and my honourable friend the Minister for Sport have said several times from our respective Dispatch Boxes, we believe that the Premier League has the financial capacity to support the wider football family. We hope that it has the good sense to act on that quickly.

Covid-19: Football League

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Tuesday 10th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

With regard to the noble Lord’s second point, I am not aware that any consideration is being given to a levy such as he describes. Obviously, our goal is to get fans back in stadia, and we have worked very hard to try to broker exceptional access to games as they have operated behind closed doors. The nature of agreements between the broadcasters and the various leagues are for commercial arrangements between them and not for government.

[Lord McNally (LD) [V]]

My Lords, is it not time that the Government stopped pussyfooting with the Premier League and made sure that it makes a proper contribution? The Minister said that they have not looked at this, but they should look at a levy on the money coming out of television and make sure that money quickly gets to both the English Football League and the National League, which make a far better contribution to our communities than the Premiership.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

To be clear, I said I was not aware of whether the Government were looking at this; I did not say that they were not. They have been incredibly active in supporting sports clubs across all the major sports that are really suffering from the lack of income from fans. They are working closely with the Treasury to resolve this as quickly as possible.

Covid-19: Regional Theatres

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Monday 28th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNally]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to help regional theatres survive the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on their normal operations and sources of income.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, this Government recognise how severely regional theatres and the wider arts sector have been hit by the Covid-19 crisis. Our unprecedented £1.57 billion cultural recovery fund builds on the £200 million in emergency public funding to help stabilise organisations, protect jobs and ensure that work continues to flow to freelancers. We want this investment to benefit all parts of the country, not only those cities which may already be rich in cultural assets, and for smaller organisations and cultural venues at centre of their communities to be protected.

[Lord McNally (LD)]

My Lords, the first theatre I ever attended was the beautiful Grand Theatre in Blackpool. Like many other iconic regional theatres, it now faces the possibility that it has closed for good. Can the Minister give assurances that the cultural recovery fund and other government measures will take careful cognisance of the contribution that these iconic theatres give to the cultural, educational and social life of the regions?

Gambling Legislation

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Thursday 10th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I can only repeat what I have said already: we are going to conduct the review very thoroughly. We found your Lordships’ report most helpful. We also consulted last year on whether to raise the minimum age for playing the lottery to 18, and we will publish our response to that consultation in due course.

[Lord McNally (LD)]

My Lords, will the Government make it clear to the FA, the Premiership, the Football League and the National League that the direction of travel is inevitably to ban gambling advertising on shirts and that they should prepare now for that reality?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Both gambling advertising and gambling sponsorship are subject to extremely strict rules, and must never target children or vulnerable people. The whistle-to-whistle ban has actually resulted in a reduction in the number of advertisements that children are seeing.

Television Licences

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Monday 6th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord is critical of the last settlement, but I would remind him that the BBC itself regarded it as a good deal.

[Lord McNally (LD) [V]]

My Lords, the licence fee was created by a Conservative Government to protect the BBC from intimidation and sniping by the Government of the day. Is it not time that the Government stopped using the licence fee as a bran tub to dip into for populist causes and gave the BBC the protection from political interference that it deserves?

[Baroness Barran]

I am slightly perplexed by the noble Lord’s question, because I do not think that the Government see the licence fee as a bran tub at all. As I have said in answer to almost every question today, the Government absolutely respect the editorial and operational independence of the BBC.

Covid-19: Orchestras and Cultural Venues

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Wednesday 1st July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

We absolutely recognise the nature and important role of freelancers in these sectors. They are in the region of 72% of the workforce, compared with 16% across the rest of the economy, so the noble Lord raises an important point. Colleagues are working night and day to get the guidelines out.

[Lord McNally (LD) [V]]

My Lords, my own town Blackpool has a “Know Before You Go” campaign that sets out for visitors what is open, what they should not do and how they should go into some venues. But a whole part of this sector—including the most iconic visitor attractions—still has no timeline, road map or long-term financial assistance, as said by the noble Baroness, Lady Bull. This is crippling to the industry and putting it in grave danger. There is a question there.

[Baroness Barran]

The “Know Before You Go” scheme that the noble Lord mentioned sounds very sensible. I can only repeat what I already said: active work is going on with all the key sector stakeholders to understand how we can build back better for our cultural sector.

Seaside Resorts

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Monday 22nd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNally]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what measures they are taking to ensure that seaside resorts can respond to any increased demand for holidays in the United Kingdom.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are taking a number of measures to make sure that our seaside resorts can open safely at the earliest possible opportunity. We meet regularly with the industry to hear views on how tourism businesses, including those in seaside destinations, can best prepare to welcome holidaymakers when it is safe to do so. My department has set up a cultural renewal task force with a specific visitor economy working group to develop Covid-secure guidance to help tourism businesses, including those on the coast, reopen. We are working very closely with the sector on this. When it is ready, we look forward to welcoming people back to our fantastic seaside resorts.

[Lord McNally (LD) [V]]

My Lords, the seaside towns cannot wait, because time moves on. We are about to move into the busiest three months of a seaside town’s economic year. From the much-trailed statements that are to come out tomorrow, we need immediately clear guidance for seaside towns on how best they can reopen their attractions, particularly hospitality and iconic indoor attractions, perhaps taking best practice from abroad. I welcome the statement about the committee. By the end of this tourist season, it must put in place long-term help for seaside towns, as recommended by the committee on seaside towns chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, on which I served.

Online Harms Legislation

Debate between Lord McNally and Baroness Barran

Thursday 13th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

I thank the noble Lord for his questions. On what is happening in this area internationally, including in the EU, we are watching and liaising closely with other countries. This is a global issue by its very nature. We do not want that liaison to hold us up—we are keen to make progress as quickly as possible—but we are co-ordinating.

No final decision has been taken on Ofcom, although the former Secretary of State was clear when she said that she was “minded to appoint Ofcom” as the regulator. There is now a programme of work to look at how this would work in practice. We will be able to confirm more on that later in the spring, but there is a clear commitment to make sure that the resources are available to make this work well.

[Lord McNally (LD)]

My Lords, I understand that when my noble friend Lord Clement-Jones raised this matter during Questions, there was harrumphing from the Neanderthals on the Minister’s Back Benches about such impudence. It is worth reminding ourselves that this is not a gentlemen’s club; it is a House of Parliament where government is held to account. I therefore welcome the Government’s quick response in supplying this Statement.

I welcome the responsibilities being given to Ofcom. What worries me is that in three or six months’ time, the Minister will be at the Dispatch Box saying, “Unfortunately, Ofcom has not been able to do the preparatory work needed”, because it has neither the funds nor the mandate under present legislation. That is why I urge her again to consider adopting my paving Bill, which was drafted in co-operation with the Carnegie Trust and which any Government might have brought forward anyway. It gives a chance for action this day on the preparations needed, which Ofcom could get on with.

There is also the matter of the Minister referring this morning to a Cabinet Office committee looking at some of the issues covered by the committee of the noble Lord, Lord Puttnam, concerning damages to democracy. Who does that committee report to? Is a Minister responsible for its work? When we will have a report on its work?

Also, there was pressure in the Commons this morning for pre-legislative scrutiny. That would waste time but I urge the Minister to consider giving both the DCMS Committee and the Communications Committee in this House the job of taking the first look at Ofcom’s work.

Finally, I want to put on record that last night, the Minister, Matt Warman—it is no use the Whip glaring at me, I have not taken as long as the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths. I will not be bullied by the Whip; she should go out if she does not want to listen to me. Last night, Matt Warman spoke at a round table and was brilliant. I hope that praise from my quarter does not damage his future political career. Perhaps I can avoid that by putting on record that I think Dominic Cummings is doing a wonderful job.

[Baroness Barran]

I thank the noble Lord for his kind comments about my honourable friend. As he knows, we share many of the same objectives. I know that officials in the department have found liaising with the noble Lord very helpful; I hope that work can continue.

On the Cabinet Office committee, the Government set up the Defending Democracy programme to pull together existing work and expertise from a number of departments. It is led by the Cabinet Office. I will write to the noble Lord with more detail on that.