Electric Vehicles: Supporting Access

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Monday 6th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government are hugely supportive of car clubs. To be honest, they benefit from various government measures. For example, people using car clubs can use the chargers, the rollout of which the Government are supporting across the country. We do not have any specific proposals for financial support for car clubs, but we welcome them and think they have a core part to play in future.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as chairman of Transport for the North. Will my noble friend outline what the Government are doing to work in partnership with the private sector to ensure that we have much more rollout of availability of superchargers throughout the country, to give confidence to people who already own or are thinking of purchasing an electric vehicle?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is absolutely right: it is not up to the Government alone; it must be up to support from both the Government and the private sector. That is why the Government are investing, alongside the private sector, in a £400 million fund for charging points. To date, between the Government and industry, we have supported more than 30,000 publicly available devices.

Taxis and Private Hire Vehicles (Disabled Persons) Bill

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

3rd reading
Tuesday 26th April 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord McLoughlin]

That the Bill do now pass.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, I pay compliments to my right honourable friend Jeremy Wright MP, who started this Bill off in the House of Commons. I was privileged to serve with Jeremy in the Whips’ Office in the Commons from 2007 to 2012. He then went on to become Attorney-General, so this Bill will perhaps have had more legal pondering than most Private Members’ Bills put before the House. It makes an important contribution and I hope it gives some comfort to disabled people that they will be treated the same throughout the whole of the United Kingdom, irrespective of whether their local authority has done, or been able to do, the registration in the past. The Bill is the right move forward; I am just very sorry that it was not done in the four years that I was Secretary of State.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, about one in five of us is disabled and we know that disabled people rely on taxis and private hire vehicles more than most. That is why the Bill is so important and why the Government have given it their full support. If disabled people are more likely to rely on taxis and private hire vehicles for everyday journeys, instances of discrimination will have a much greater impact. The Bill goes a long way in helping to reduce that impact. I am enormously grateful to all those who have made it happen: my noble friend Lord McLoughlin, for his leadership in your Lordships’ House; my right honourable friend Jeremy Wright, for his expertise in leading it through the other place; all noble Lords who contributed to the debate; and, of course, the team of dedicated officials in my department. The Bill has received cross-party support and I am very grateful that it should pass today.

Taxis and Private Hire Vehicles (Disabled Persons) Bill

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 1st April 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord McLoughlin]

That the Bill be read a second time.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, this Bill completed its stages in the House of Commons on 18 March. It was introduced to the House of Commons by Jeremy Wright, the Member of Parliament for Kenilworth and Southam, a colleague who I served with in the Opposition Whips’ Office from 2007 and in the Government Whips’ Office until 2012. He then went on to become Attorney-General for four years. When he decided to take this particular measure forward, one can say that it had had detailed legal scrutiny, which a number of other Bills perhaps do not get.

The provisions in the Bill should have been written into law many years ago. Its intention is simple: to amend the Equality Act 2010 so that any disabled person has specific rights and protections when accessing a taxi or private hire vehicle. Its provisions are reasonable. The duties in the Bill are those which we would expect drivers and operators already to fulfil; indeed, I am confident that the majority already do so.

Its impact will be great, as it would offer rights and protections to more than 13.5 million disabled people in England, Scotland and Wales. It would simply amend the Equality Act 2010 in two ways. First, it would address the inconsistencies in the current provisions, providing greater protection for wheelchair users. Secondly, it would introduce new duties, so that any disabled person can expect reasonable assistance when using a taxi or a private hire vehicle without being charged extra for doing so, and confident that they will receive the assistance they need. Collectively, those two changes would strengthen the taxi and PHV section of the Equality Act 2010 so that the rights and protection of disabled people mirror the range of scenarios and outcomes which disabled people can encounter when accessing a taxi.

I shall speak first of how the Bill will amend the current provisions, as this will also give an illustration of the taxi and PHV section of the Equality Act 2010 as it currently stands. Section 165 of the Act places duties on drivers of designated wheelchair and accessible taxis and PHVs to carry wheelchair users and their wheelchairs, to give them reasonable mobility assistance and not to charge them extra for doing so. On the face of it, that all sounds perfectly reasonable. However, it is only when looking at the detail of this section and Section 167, relating to the designated list of wheelchair-accessible vehicles, that it becomes clear that the manner in which Section 165 duties are applied to drivers allows for an inconsistency. Section 167 is worded so that the local licensing authority “may”—an important word—maintain a list of designated vehicles, not that they must.

So even if a taxi or private hire vehicle is designated to carry wheelchairs, if it is not on the local licensing authority’s designated list—the authority does not have to maintain such a list at all—then Section 165 does not apply. How can it be that a wheelchair user in one part of the country has specific rights and protections when using a taxi or PHV and another wheelchair user, who has no influence on the actions of the local licensing authority in its decision not to maintain a designated list, does not? This Bill will put that anomaly right.

The Bill addresses the anomaly by requiring local authorities to maintain and publish a list of designated wheelchair-accessible vehicles, thereby ensuring that the Section 165 duties apply consistently across the country. Wheelchair users should be able to access any wheelchair-accessible taxi or private hire vehicle knowing that they will not be discriminated against. This Bill will make that happen.

The Bill also amends the driver exemptions. Currently, local licensing authorities can issue exemption certificates to drivers on medical grounds or because of physical conditions. However, this exempts them from all the duties in Section 165. Although it is only fair and reasonable that drivers have the right to apply for an exemption, it is not right, fair or reasonable that they are exempted from the duty to carry disabled persons and not charge them extra for duties on which their disability or physical condition has no bearing at all. New Clause 164A, inserted by this Bill, therefore amends the current exemptions so that drivers are exempt only from the mobility assistance duties in Section 165. New Clauses 165A and 167A, inserted by this Bill, create duties so that rights to access and assistance apply not just consistently across the country but fairly and reasonably for any disabled person.

Although Section 165 ensures that the specific needs of wheelchair users travelling in designated wheelchair-accessible vehicles are met, as I just mentioned, driver exemptions would be amended to cover the mobility assistance duties in Section 165 and new Clause 164A. New Clause 164A places duties on drivers of taxis and private hire vehicles to carry disabled persons and their mobility aid or wheelchair, provide reasonable assistance and not charge extra for doing so. This includes, for example, if a wheelchair user intends to access a non-wheelchair-accessible taxi by transferring to the passenger seat or storing their wheelchair in the vehicle, or if a disabled person who does not use a wheelchair requires assistance accessing a taxi, regardless of whether it is a wheelchair-accessible vehicle.

New Clause 165A also creates a duty on taxi and PHV drivers to assist a disabled person in identifying and finding the vehicle at no extra charge. This is an important provision. If a person has a learning disability or disability and struggles to differentiate between a pre-booked taxi or PHV and a private car parked nearby, the law should ensure that they receive the support they need by means of the driver helping them identify their booked vehicle and taking them safely to where they want to go, thus reducing the anxiety such a passenger may face—not to speak of the potential danger in approaching an unknown vehicle and attempting to enter it.

Section 170 of the Equality Act 2010 places a duty on operators of private hire vehicle services not to refuse a booking because the passenger will be accompanied by an assistance dog, yet that Act currently fails to provide adequate protections for other disabled persons. In practice, this means that a wheelchair user might be refused a booking, not because there are no suitable vehicles but because the driver does not want to provide the assistance required by law. New Clause 167A would address this inconsistency by adding a new offence for a private hire vehicle operator to fail or refuse to accept a booking from any disabled person because of their disability or to charge extra for fulfilling any of the disability-related duties in the relevant sections of the Equality Act.

A Bill is not robust if it provides only duties, no matter how reasonable, without considering the people responsible for carrying them out. I am pleased to say that this Bill anticipates further scenarios from both a disabled person’s perspective and that of a driver or operator. As such, it will provide reasonable defences for drivers and operators of private hire vehicles to allow for situations in which they could not have known that a passenger was disabled or needed assistance, or when it would not be reasonable or possible to carry their wheelchair or mobility aid in the vehicle. I believe that the Bill strikes a careful balance between upholding the rights of disabled passengers and ensuring that drivers with a genuine defence will not be penalised.

I conclude by reiterating a point made many times during this Bill’s passage through the other place: the majority of taxi and private hire vehicle drivers are a great credit to this country. During the height of the Covid pandemic, they provided a vital lifeline for key workers—doctors, nurses and shop workers, to name but a few—by ensuring that they could reach their places of work on time and in safety. This Bill is not intended to penalise or place undue burdens on such drivers. It is intended to give disabled people legal rights to ensure that travelling by taxi or private hire vehicle need no longer be a source of anxiety, physical discomfort or embarrassment—or a case of not being able to travel at all.

On other occasions, your Lordships’ House has heard about times when disabled people have found themselves greatly embarrassed about not being able to hire or get a taxi. That needs to be addressed. The rules need to be clear across the country. I believe that this small Bill, with its small amendments, will help to secure that. I commend it to your Lordships’ House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, I echo my noble friend in thanking noble Lords who have taken part so far. A number of points have been made about my experience in getting legislation through the other place. I may have experience in the other place, but I am a mere apprentice as far as your Lordships’ House is concerned. I am learning all the time; I have learned about this little device—the gap—that I never knew existed. That apprenticeship has hopefully taught me a lesson this morning.

Having listened to the debate, I realise I should also have pointed out my interest as chairman of Transport for the North at the beginning. The noble Lord, Lord Boateng, spoke about electric vehicles and made a very important point about future development and rollout. I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Mann, for expanding the subject to going to football grounds. I will refrain from saying anything about Derby County, as I have done on other occasions during this debate. We are hopefully becoming much more aware of, and more understanding about, accessibility across the whole piece.

I thank my noble friend Lord Borwick for the vast experience he brings to the debate. I think he said that the Bill was a “shuffle in the right direction”. If it is, I regard that as fair backing, because it is perhaps a journey we have got to get through. The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, brought her personal experience to the debate; it is one of the richnesses of your Lordships’ House that we get that kind of contribution from people with wide and broad experience across the whole field. Some of the points she made were very telling and need to be addressed, such as the practical implications, because quite often legislation is passed and we do not always think about the practical implications. Sometimes they are seen only after a Bill has gone through all its stages, and we should reflect on that.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, gave his support from the Opposition Front Bench with the usual caveats of “We will support this, but this is all that’s wrong with it and everything else you need to do”. The Minister pointed out that licensing is and should be self-funding and therefore that it should not put extra costs on local authorities—but the Bill is putting a responsibility on local authorities, which I think everybody basically welcomes. I thank all those noble Lords who have taken part in the debate for their support.

Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Bus Services: Covid-19 Emergency Funding

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Tuesday 1st March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

No, I do not. I have not heard the £600 million figure—that is a fair amount. However, I have had numerous conversations with the industry over the months and years during which I have been in post. Some may call it lobbying, and it is very welcome. We have good conversations, and we understand what the challenges are. About 18 months ago I received many questions in your Lordships’ House about how we were going to take into account changes in travel demand as we come out of the pandemic. That is exactly what we must do now. Not every area is going to be the same; there will be changes to patterns of travel. This money will help us to make this transition to what a new future looks like for the bus network.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, I draw attention to my interests in the register as chairman of Transport for the North. I welcome the announcement which my noble friend has made today. Will she also give some thought to bringing together all the different kinds of grants made to the bus industry—be it from her department or from the department for levelling up—to show the Government’s commitment to the industry, while also saying that we must move forward with best practice? We are already seeing that in many different cities across the country.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is quite right. It is extraordinary how many different streams of funding go into the whole bus network system. This can be to the operators directly, or to local authorities—some of which comes from the Department for Transport and some from the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities. I will respond to my noble friend with a letter which draws this all together. It is a substantial sum of money. Combined with some of the money we are putting into the infrastructure of major urban centres—for example, CRSTS—there is a lot of money going into buses, and we need to ensure that we make the best use of it.

Integrated Rail Plan: North and Midlands

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Monday 22nd November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I hope that I have just outlined to the noble Lord that we will continue to look at schemes that we can put in place in addition to the core pipeline. The RNIP will be published in due course. I hope that will reassure noble Lords that there is a programme in place, and that we will take forward some of the commitments that we have already made. As I have said, I look forward to hearing suggestions from whichever side of the House.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

One of the problems that the Government face is about expectations, and the rise in expectations as far as transport is concerned. The Secretary of State made a number of important announcements last week, some of which have been called for. The problems of overruns in railways—I certainly had my fair share of them when I was Secretary of State—is common to the industry. I wish Network Rail well in its attempts to keep these under control. I come to the point that HS2, which will be 75% built as originally put forward, was always about capacity. It is very important that the question of capacity be properly addressed. I see from the plan published by the Secretary of State last week that the Government are still looking at options for HS2 to Leeds. The areas that have blight at the moment, because they are being considered as options for that, will continue to have that blight. I hope that the Government will come to conclusions on those options as quickly as possible. I wish my noble friend well, and I wish the Government well in ensuring that the public transport that we all want to see is actually delivered.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I appreciate the wise words of my noble friend. It is the case to a certain extent that some people’s expectations were not met by this plan but, as I have said, there are many things to commend it. I have already mentioned Nottingham and Derby, and there are so many other places that will benefit from this plan. This really is building back better but also with better value for money. I know that a number of noble Lords have questions around capacity. I will include in my letter to noble Lords how we intend to improve capacity in various ways on different parts of the railway; it is all set out in the plan but it might be helpful if I draw it all together for noble Lords. I will also perhaps arrange an open meeting with Minister Stephenson so that noble Lords can quiz him; he is the person who knows this back to front.

Lorry Drivers

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Wednesday 7th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Hauliers are able to bring goods into this country properly. The issue is that there is a driver shortage in the UK market. There is also a shortage in the EU market, actually, and in many economies. I can announce to your Lordships’ House today that I have just temporarily extended drivers’ hours. I accept that that is definitely not a long-term solution: we must ensure that drivers’ safety is not compromised, and operators must notify the DfT.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

The announcement my noble friend just made will be very welcome to the industry. Speaking to people in the industry, they say that they are facing the biggest crisis that they can recall in driver recruitment. Will the Government consider temporarily lifting the CPC regulations and the need for them for domestic drivers, now we are no longer in the European Union?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his question. I have looked very carefully at driver CPC. It is my opinion that we need to put the “professional” back into professional driving. Driver CPC is a really good way to ensure ongoing training for the profession. It is one day a year, which I think is about the right amount of training. It ensures that they are up to date and maintain their skills and knowledge of the roads. The Government have funding available to support those who have a C+E licence who need to get their driver CPC, so there is a way for people to upgrade their qualification.

Britain’s Railways

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Monday 24th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, I draw attention to my interests as set out in the register. I welcome the Williams report, but we should recognise the very great changes that were brought about by privatisation. Up until 1992, the number of people using our railways was 700 million. In 2019, it was 1.9 billion. That was a tremendous success, which was partly brought about by engaging with the private sector so that we got better services across our railway network. While I accept the necessary changes that the Secretary of State and my noble friend have set out, will my noble friend also acknowledge the very important part played by the private sector, and will she say that the private sector will be very much seen as partners in the way forward?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is absolutely right: during privatisation, passenger numbers more than doubled, so the involvement of the private sector has had a transformational impact on the way that we run our railways today. This Government want to keep the best elements of the private sector. We want to keep its capacity for innovation and work with it to drive growth in the railways. We will do that by having these new contracts for passenger operators, with strong incentives to run very high-quality services.

HS2: Phase 2B

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Monday 8th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, we have been very impressed by the scale of the regeneration plans for the proposed HS2 station at Toton. In the IRP it is very important that we consider regeneration and economic impacts on local areas, as well as how to create the right kind of rail network.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con) [V]]

The Government were right, following the review by Doug Oakervee, to continue with HS2, which is now happening and taking place to Birmingham and Manchester. Does the Minister agree that it is absolutely essential that the eastern leg of the project, which takes in the cities of Derby, Nottingham, Sheffield and Leeds, also gets the benefits from what is a major engineering project for this country?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend might have seen a letter published today by Connecting Britain, which is made up of 120 leaders from the places that he mentions and beyond. It says:

“The Integrated Rail Plan is your chance to move on from Covid to what the future of the UK should look like. Levelling up parts of the country that have seen traditional and considerable underinvestment, and that would benefit from a plan for growth.”


That is exactly what we intend to do.

High Speed Rail (West Midlands-Crewe) Bill

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Monday 14th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

It is always a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, who speaks with such fervour about a project that I think it is fair to say he created and made the initial plans for. Of course, he left office in 2010, and a lot has happened since then: HS2’s formation and growth, and the case being made for it. It is perhaps worth occasionally reminding the noble Lord, who looks at these things through rose-tinted glasses, of the last Labour Government’s appalling record on transport infrastructure spend. Between 2000 and 2007, we had the lowest infrastructure spend of all the OECD countries, and in the World Economic Forum ranking we fell from seventh to 33rd in infrastructure investment terms. The rose-tinted glasses therefore occasionally need polishing, so that we can look at our true record.

It is true that any big infrastructure project is always hugely controversial, and that is certainly true of HS2. One has to accept and understand it when people oppose this project because it is on their doorsteps and they will perhaps not benefit directly from it; that too is certainly true of HS2. I have never dismissed those who oppose this project because it goes through their area, but we also have to look to the greater good for our country.

Importantly, this is the first time in over 100 years that we will have built a new north-south railway in this country. The noble Lord, Lord Adonis, mentioned my role. I commissioned David Higgins to produce a report on how we could get the benefits faster. When I was Secretary of State, I told the House of Commons that his report, which was published in 2014,

“suggests opening the new line to a new hub station in Crewe six years earlier than planned. Direct trains will of course be able to run off HS2 lines to serve places such as Stoke, Liverpool, Manchester, north Wales and Scotland, and faster too, and the line to Crewe sooner would mean journeys that are shorter than they would be under phase 1”.—[Official Report, Commons, 24/3/14; col. 29.]

A point I often make is that HS2 is not just about speed; that is just one element. HS2 is about freeing up capacity. We have seen a huge growth in the use of our railways over the past 20 years. Today’s Covid experience has obviously had a devastating impact on the use of our railways, but I do not think it is going to be long-term; I still think we will see a growth in rail travel once we get over this horrendous Covid problem.

I very much welcome Third Reading of this Bill today; it is another stage in the objective proposal of HS2. Where I do agree with the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, is that this is a project that serves both the east of England and the west coast main line. It is absolutely essential that we see such development in the East Midlands.

There have been big changes since the whole concept was first announced, with HS2 now going right into Sheffield instead of just going to Meadowhall and then on to Leeds. Another change is the redesigning of the route as a result of measures that have been investigated, looking at the practicalities of how we best serve the cities outside London. Indeed, serving what will be Toton station, and the service to Chesterfield, Sheffield and Leeds, will radically enhance our cities outside London. This is part of the concept of HS2; it is the right thing for us to do, and it will level the playing field between the north and the south. I congratulate the Minister on achieving this and getting Third Reading of the Bill and the extension up to Crewe.

I turn to the final part of the job. I have no idea what the National Infrastructure Commission will say tomorrow, but this is a project for the whole country. It does not finish in Leeds or Manchester; it needs to go on—to Cumbria, Newcastle and Scotland. Yes, we and those cities will see the advantages in the train service running up to Sheffield, because the journeys will be shortened and they will be able to carry on. In the longer term—this is a long-term investment project—we will see changes of government but it is essential that, once we set out on these tasks, we fulfil them so that Scotland, Newcastle and our great cities outside London feel the benefit. This is a levelling-up exercise; it was always designed, and must continue, as that.

High Speed Rail (West Midlands–Crewe) Bill

Lord McLoughlin Excerpts

Report stage (Hansard) & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords & Report stage
Monday 30th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Blunkett (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I am very pleased to lend my support to my noble friend Lord Adonis and his well-crafted amendment, and to follow the noble Lord, Lord Curry, and—yes—the noble Lord, Lord Scriven. On a number of occasions this year, he and I have found ourselves in agreement: I am not sure whether that is bad for him or bad for me, but on this occasion we are wholeheartedly as one. That is because we have seen what has happened over the years. He mentioned electrification of the Midland main line. Christopher Grayling promised it, and within months he withdrew that promise. It is similar to the picture painted by George Orwell of promising, withdrawing and promising again until people were completely bamboozled and befuddled as to what they had been promised and what had been taken away. I counsel my noble friend Lord Adonis to be very careful in hearing, as I am sure that he will be, the words of the Minister, for whom we have the greatest respect but who has been given a government brief. If the brief is not to say, “Yes, of course we intend to go ahead with this and we will, therefore, be quite happy to publish our legislation,” then I hope we will move this to a Division.

There are three sets of people who helped the Government. One set are those who were against HS2 from the start. I understand why: they believe that the money should be redeployed elsewhere. There is a second set who say: “We do not mind you doing the north-west, but we are quite happy for you to give us the money for infrastructure work and other investment in Yorkshire and the north-east.” The third set says, “Do not rock the boat, because we do not want to be seen to be undermining phase 2a and the subsequent leg to Manchester because it would be grossly unfair.” All three are just so naive that it is breath-taking. It is breath-taking to suggest that money that would not be spent on HS2 would, in any way, be spent on other forms of infrastructure in the two decades to come. It is naive to believe that, if you give a fair wind to someone else, they will back you when they got what they wanted and you failed to get what you needed. It is naive to believe that a Government who will not commit to what they originally promised have somehow just mislaid the necessary words and are not intent on changing policy or their programme.

My great fear—and I have had it all along—is that we will, of course, get Crewe to Manchester, and we will get the fast HS2 line from Manchester to Leeds, so that the Leeds leg will be an extremely rapid cross-Pennine addition, but it will not be from Birmingham through the east Midlands and Yorkshire with the spur to the east coast main line and to the north-east. I worry about MPs from the north-east—many of them very new, and this is true of the east Midlands as well—who seem to live in a parallel universe where they believe that words do not say what they actually say, as Alice would have said in Wonderland. Unless you get it on paper and it is absolutely unequivocal, it is not going to happen. The east Midlands, Yorkshire and the north-east will lose out all over again.

The briefing notes sent out were very interesting. The noble Lord, Lord Curry, talked about people from London and the south thinking that the world stopped at Sheffield. I wish that they did believe that, but they think it stops at Watford. When they use terms, as were included in this briefing note, such as “the north” or “the northern powerhouse,” what they clearly mean is the north-west or Greater Manchester and the surrounding areas. That is what George Osborne believed, which was understandable from his point of view because at the time he represented a seat in the north-west.

It is time for the leaders of councils, the elected mayors and the Members of Parliament of every party from the east Midlands, Yorkshire and the north-east to start collaborating in order to have their voice heard; otherwise, they will find themselves conned. Once again, they will be seen as losers and I am sick of us being losers on the east of the Pennines: I want the north and the northern powerhouse to be right across what is the north of England. I want that promise of 30 million people benefiting to be not some sort of artificial myth: I want it to be a reality. It can be a reality only if we actually get this additional leg, promised from the beginning, through the east Midlands, which has a high density of passenger usage, which will then be accommodated by freeing up the existing services. That is the argument in Stoke and Macclesfield in the north-west; it works just as well for the east Midlands and Yorkshire, where there is high-density passenger mileage in this particular corridor. Let us unite in wanting to do something that at last will put the nation in better balance—not only the levelling up that is so often talked about but levelling up between the north-west and north-east of the Pennines as well.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to address the House on what I believe is a very important infrastructure project, one of the biggest undertaken by any Government in recent years. I have a slight worry about the amendment as tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, which is that it would put too much of a straitjacket on the Government regarding the future proposals that need to be ironed out. However, I find myself with a lot of sympathy for it.

I myself as Secretary of State for Transport made many changes to the plans put forward by the noble Lord when he did his initial scoping project, which was then carried on. Not the least of those changes is in the Bill before us. This part of the Bill came about as a result of the review done for me by David Higgins about how we could get it to the north faster, because there was a lot of concern that we would build up to Birmingham and then it would stop there. So I am delighted to be able to partake in these proceedings in this House on this section of the project that I think I started off.

I was fascinated to hear the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, talk about the end of the Pacer trains. It reminded me of my time as Secretary of State: it was I who issued the instruction to the Permanent Secretary to override the advice of the department, which said that we could not possibly get rid of the Pacer trains as there was no financial case. I am very pleased that that has been done. It has been delayed slightly, but these things take a bit of time. Still, at long last those trains, which were brought in 40 years ago on a temporary basis, will cease to exist. I have to say I was surprised that there was no “Save the Pacer train” movement, because the rail industry can sometimes become very nostalgic, keeping everything in the past. As far as I know, there has been no such movement.

I did not get the exact wording of the Minister’s answer to the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, but she said it was time to get on with the Bill and not accept any more delays. I reinforce that to her: it is time to get on with the whole project in so far as it goes at the moment, because even the line up to Leeds and Manchester is not really the full project. It is only the start of the project of modernising our railway network. I find it ironic that I can get a high-speed train from London to Paris or Brussels, but not to Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Edinburgh or Glasgow. That is the dream; we have to ensure that future generations get their own high-speed rail.

I regret the words “high-speed rail”. It is not about high speed, but about high capacity. One of the things that this railway does is release a lot of the capacity on other railway lines to fulfil some of the more desirable things that areas want. We have seen a modern revolution in rail travel in this country. At the time of privatisation, 700 million people a year were using our railways. Last year, before the outbreak of the Covid pandemic, the figure was something like 1.8 billion people. Railways have become a much more important part of our nation and of our cities. I believe that the Bill and the Government committing to going as far as Crewe is essential, but there is more about it that is essential. The line was always planned to be a Y shape. The most expensive part of the railway was actually building it from London to Birmingham and then its costs fall away a little, although I fully accept that it is still a very expensive project.