Committee of Selection
Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord Balfe
The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)
I shall call the following Members to speak: first, the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, and then the noble Lords, Lord Cormack and Lord Forsyth of Drumlean.
Lord Balfe (Con)
This is a great exercise in lack of transparency. We are appointing committees that will run virtually every aspect of the House’s policy-making functions. I am told that we do have some transparency and that an email was sent out in March. To me, that is not a very transparent way of doing things. Will the Senior Deputy Speaker make his name in this House by being a reforming Senior Deputy Speaker? I in no way criticise his predecessor, who I know put a lot of effort into trying to get things moving.
The appointment of chairs of sub-committees is quite different here from in another place. The other place for once seems to have got a bit more democracy into it. This is not an arcane point, because it means that the chairs of the sub-committees have to relate to the Members; they have to be to a level accountable. I would like to see, as in the other place, the chairs allocated to the party groups and then some elections, so that people had to demonstrate not only that they knew what they were talking about but that they could reach across the aisle—as they say in the United States—and one did not look at things and say, “Oh, well, that’s a Labour chair; we’re not going to get anywhere there”, and so that the persons standing for chair, of whom I hope there would be more than one from any group, had to make the case as to why they should be the chair.
The only committee excepted from this is the Committee of Selection itself. Perhaps the Senior Deputy Speaker could start a reform package by ensuring that at least a part of the Committee of Selection is elected and that there are some Back-Bench voices on it. At the moment, that committee is basically a committee of the leaders; it is like the chiefs’ pow-wow of the House of Lords—everybody gets together with their pipe of peace and they agree with everybody on how they are going to divide things up. I do not think that is acceptable.
I have one final point. Some noble Lords will recall that I was one of the two people who divided the House on the case of the noble Lord, Lord Maginnis, and his suspension from this House. It was a suspension that was decided in private, that was never debated in public, where he had no opportunity to put his case to his Peers and where it was decided by a committee that contains four people who are not even Members of the Lords and five people who are, at least one of whom has a senior role on a completely different committee. Will the Senior Deputy Speaker look at the way in which this committee works? The punishments—that is the only word for it—that it dishes out are far more stringent than anything found in the House of Commons.
I examined carefully all the evidence that was published about the noble Lord, Lord Maginnis. I would certainly have suspended him for a week. His behaviour was “sub-optimal”—which I think is the word we are searching for—but he did not deserve to be sacked completely for ever from his job, which is the effect of a five-year suspension on a person of 82 years of age who, whatever else one says, had had a distinguished political career. I was never in his party in Ireland; I do not agree with him, but the punishment was far harsher than the crime. The crime, basically, was a curmudgeonly old man losing his temper at the door on the way in; it was nothing more serious than that. I ask the Senior Deputy Speaker also to look at ways in which the Conduct Committee can be democratised so that when it comes to conclusions Members are able to comment on them and have some influence on the way things operate. In the case of the noble Lord, Lord Maginnis, a massive injustice was perpetrated by this House without any opportunity for debate, discussion or understanding.
Environment and Climate Change Committee
Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord Balfe
The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)
In December 2020, the Liaison Committee published a final report resulting from its extensive review of House of Lords committee activity. The report, which was subsequently agreed by the House in January, recommended the creation of five new sessional committees focused on the built environment; the environment and climate change; European affairs; industry and regulators; and justice and home affairs. These committees, which build upon our earlier recommendations and changes, will give the House a new thematic committee structure which allows for more effective and comprehensive scrutiny of all major areas of public policy.
The Motions before us today are to appoint members to the new committees. It is expected that the European Affairs Committee will, at one of its early meetings, also appoint a sub-committee focused on the operation of the protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland, completing the structural changes recommended through the review of committees.
In recent years I have received representations from across the House regarding the relatively low number of committees chaired by female Members of the House. With that in mind, I am pleased to note that three of the five committees that we are appointing today are to be chaired by women. Across all committees as a whole, excluding those chaired by office holders and Joint Committees chaired by MPs, one-third of our committees will now have female chairs, which represents good progress on recent years.
Today’s appointments also mark the end of an era, as the new committees will effectively take the place of our previous European Union Committee and its sub-committees, which published their final reports late last month and have now concluded their work. European Union Committee reports, whether before, after or during Brexit, have demonstrated a depth of inquiry, a level of expertise and comprehensive scrutiny that has not been matched elsewhere. I have previously paid tribute to the work of the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, and his colleagues, but wish once again, on behalf of the House, to thank them for the service they have performed in recent years.
Lastly, I remind the House that the review of committees has established a firm but flexible framework within which our committees will operate. We are in a position to consider future adjustments to our committee structures as and when the need arises, particularly during our annual reviews, the first of which is expected in the autumn. In this way, our comprehensive review, including the Motions before us today, should provide committees with a firm foundation for many years to come. I beg to move.
Lord Balfe (Con)
I have one question, and a couple of observations, on what will probably be the Senior Deputy Speaker’s last outing in this House. I am sure we all admire the work that he has done in his many years in the job.
The withdrawal agreement from the EU provides for the establishment of a joint parliamentary committee between the British Parliament and the European Parliament. I wonder whether the Senior Deputy Speaker can give us any information as to how the House of Lords is to be represented in that committee, and whether we will be taking one of either the chair or the three vice-chairs of that committee. I happen to know, because I wear several hats in this game, that the European Parliament has already decided on its chair and vice-chairs, so I just wonder what we are doing, who is leading for us and how it will fit into that structure.
My second point is that we seem to have again arrived at this position through some sort of magical mystery tour. We are told that the Committee of Selection has done this, but who has it approached? I have not seen anything. I have not been asked whether I would like to serve on a committee. How do these names come forward? I suggest that they come forward because all that we say about this being a self-regulating House is basically a load of old rubbish. The leadership runs this House. We are pushed around in whatever way a very small group of people chooses. It really is as simple as that.
I would like the Senior Deputy Speaker to follow the great tradition of leaving a note for one’s successor. He does not need to leave a note saying that there is no money left, but I think he could well leave a note saying that there is a call from some quarters—they may be unrepresentative, but I would certainly like to see it—for much greater democratisation.
In the other place, the chairs of committees are allocated to the political groups and then elected by the whole House on the basis that it can look and decide what the competencies are of those committees and the chairs can have the confidence of the House. They are not plucked out of some magical hat somewhere. I would like to see that procedure extended to this House. Clearly it cannot be done in this resolution, but I am getting a bit fed up with constantly going on about this. If the issue comes back yet again, with another series of committees and no movement whatever, I might just be tempted to divide the House—although I would lose—to prove that there are probably at least two people who support what I have got to say.
Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)
My Lords, I had not intended to speak but will say just a brief word. I cannot speak for the noble Lord’s party, but I assure him that we on these Benches have a very open process of selection for committees. All Members are notified of committee vacancies; they are asked to apply and, in consultation, the Chief Whip makes a decision and our group discusses it. He obviously has grievances with his own group, for which I cannot speak, but I am looking at my colleagues behind me and know that they do not share those grievances.
House of Lords: Size
Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord Balfe(3 years, 10 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Lord Balfe
To ask the Senior Deputy Speaker what plans the Procedure and Privileges Committee has to consult the House on the further steps that could be taken to implement the recommendations of the Lord Speaker’s committee on the size of the House.
The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith) [V]
My Lords, at present the committee has no plans to consult the House on further steps to be taken to implement the recommendations of the Lord Speaker’s committee. I note that this committee is continuing its important work, and I am sure it would welcome the noble Lord’s thoughts as to how it takes that work forward.
Lord Balfe (Con) [V]
My Lords, I will first make it clear that this Question is not aimed at any of the new creations. In my view, we need to make the House of Lords fit for purpose, but we have not received the co-operation from the Government that we could have expected over the Burns committee. We are often told that we are a self-regulating House, so I ask the Senior Deputy Speaker whether he will seek to set up some further body to look at ways in which this self-regulating House can regulate itself to a situation more acceptable to the British people, so that it can do the valuable job that is far too often rubbished because of extraneous events.
Lord McFall of Alcluith [V]
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his question. It is a follow-up to the Question that he asked me on 23 June last year, and I promised to take that issue to the Procedure Committee. Both that committee and the Burns committee are very exercised by this issue, but the matter rests with legislation and with the Government. I will refer his Question again to the Procedure Committee, but in the meantime it might be helpful for him to talk to the Burns committee itself.
House of Lords Commission
Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord Balfe
The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)
My Lords, the House may recall that this is the second report from the commission on the subject of passes for Members’ staff. The first report was published in May 2019 and was prompted by the former Sub-Committee on Lords’ Conduct, which advised us to take steps to ensure that all Members’ staff passes, of which there are more than 500, are being used for the purpose for which they are intended: namely, to assist Members directly with their parliamentary work.
A number of Members had concerns about our initial proposals, and we have listened. The feedback from two well-attended consultation meetings and various written submissions was invaluable. Unfortunately, the disrupted sitting patterns last autumn and the pandemic mean that it has taken until now to bring revised proposals before the House. We now recognise that rather than restricting passes to staff who “regularly and frequently” provide the Member with parliamentary support, we should employ a more qualitative approach.
Accordingly, we propose the following new rules:
“Members may only sponsor a pass for an individual if the absence of such a pass would make it impossible for the individual to support the member effectively.”
We have also underscored the existing rule that Member’s staff may not use their pass,
“to further the interests of an outside person or body from whom they have received or expect to receive payment or other incentive or reward.”
If the House agrees the report today, the administration will write to all Members who sponsor staff passes to set out the amended rules and ask them to confirm their compliance. In recognition of the fact that some Members may need time to adjust their existing arrangements, there will be a one-off grace period lasting until 31 March 2021. While the revised rules will have immediate effect, the commissioner will have regard to that grace period in considering any relevant complaints against Members of the House.
Much of the feedback we received during the consultation related to something that was not the focus of our first report: the issue of passes for staff of all-party parliamentary groups. We understand how much Members value the work of APPGs, and we strongly encourage noble Lords and others to make submissions to the House of Commons Standards Committee, which is conducting an inquiry into APPGs, including the issue of passes. As my recent global email pointed out to Members, the deadline for written submissions is 20 November, so noble Lords have nine days to put in such submissions.
The evidence received by the committee will help to inform the final scope and terms of reference of its inquiry, which will continue into next year. In the meantime, the rules remain as they have been in both Houses since 2013. People whose primary or only role in Parliament is to support an APPG are not entitled to have a parliamentary pass. This report simply restates the existing situation while allowing Members’ staff to help APPGs in addition to the core role of assisting their sponsoring Member. If Members have any questions about the interpretation of these rules, the Registrar of Lords’ Interests will be happy to advise, and I am happy to receive any further comments from Members.
Lord Balfe (Con)
I am not criticising the report, but I am a bit puzzled by a couple of things. The first concerns the word “primary”. Presumably, that means that someone is here just to look after an all-party group. However, a lot of people seem to be around Parliament working for MPs and also staffing all-party parliamentary groups. I frequently go to APPGs and find that the assistant, generally of an MP—the MP for somewhere or other— is also acting as secretary to this group. This appears to be okay, but I would like confirmation of that, because I am a bit unclear what “primary” means.
The second point is that there are people here who, I will not say represent outside groups, but are paid by outside groups, such as a trade union. I declare an interest in that I had an assistant for a time who was advising me but was actually paid by a TUC-affiliated trade union. I am not quite clear where these people fit in. It applies not only to them; there are a number of hybrid organisations. For instance, the Catholic Union has a person who works within Parliament, for a Member of Parliament, for two days a week, who obviously has a pass which enables them to come and see people within Parliament. So, it seems there is a sort of hybrid group in the middle of people who are not part of all-party groups but are, none the less, and I would say, quite legitimately, within Parliament, because they do an extremely good job in keeping us informed of things that matter. I am just wondering where such people fit in to this kaleidoscope of different jobs of people who work here.
I think it would be a great mistake if we tightened the rules to a point where, say, a legitimate trade union representative could not also brief other Members about issues. They might work for one Member but nonetheless send out briefings on a quite wide basis. I think, for instance, of the Justice Unions Parliamentary Group, which is serviced by someone who works within Parliament for a Member but works part-time to service that all-party group. Will the Senior Deputy Speaker clarify, if he can, where these rules begin and end, and assure us that legitimate interests from outside Parliament will still be able to make representations to us?
House of Lords: Size
Debate between Lord McFall of Alcluith and Lord Balfe
Lord Balfe
To ask the Senior Deputy Speaker what consideration has been given by the Procedure Committee to bringing before the House a resolution to amend Standing Orders to provide that the House should reduce the number of introductions of new Peers annually to the number recommended in the report of the Lord Speaker’s Committee on the Size of the House.
The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith) [V]
My Lords, under the Life Peerages Act 1958, Her Majesty has the power to confer a peerage for life, and that peerage entitles the holder
“to receive writs of summons to attend the House of Lords and sit and vote therein accordingly”.
The House is therefore restricted in what it can do to limit introductions without undermining that Act of Parliament. It is the Government and the party groups who are best able to ensure that we continue to reduce the size of the House by accepting the recommendations in the reports from the Lord Speaker’s Committee on the Size of the House.
Lord Balfe (Con) [V]
I thank the Senior Deputy Speaker for his response, but if this House is to get back its reputation and remove the odour of disrespect from Downing Street, it has to put its own house in order and not wait for others to do so. Will he therefore support bringing before the House, for a vote in the near future, a resolution along the lines outlined in my Question?
The Senior Deputy Speaker [V]
That is a matter for the Procedure Committee. I made reference to our possibly undermining the Act of Parliament. However, I will refer the noble Lord’s question to the Procedure Committee when we meet.