Single Use Carrier Bags Charges (England) (Amendment) Order 2021.

Lord Mann Excerpts

Monday 19th April 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, we have moved quickly from the moderate social democracy of the Minister’s proposals to the radicalism of the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, with his high charges and potential executions. I perhaps do not go quite as far as the noble Lord in some of the hints and suggestions that he proffers to the Minister. However, the Minister is a young lad and he does not have the memory of most of us in here—perhaps not all but certainly that I have—of remembering a life before the plastic bag, when one could buy one’s shopping with paper bags, or indeed had one shopping bag in which most things were ceremoniously placed, and we were all the better for that. Therefore, it is no surprise to me that the general public, led by wise elders with that experience, have taken very readily to the fact that they do not want to pay for something that is quite superfluous and often a nuisance but which, being very British about it, most are too embarrassed to reject when given, because they do not want to upset or offend the shopkeeper.

Therefore, if we increase the price, people will be even more pleased—not less—because people do not want things they do not need. There is no additional use. I congratulate Morrisons. I am a new convert; I believe that a second delivery arrived this morning just as I was leaving of Morrisons products—traditional products, of course, from the north of England. Nevertheless, there were no plastic bags. I am almost inclined to say that that will be a supermarket of preference, but perhaps the Co-op will quickly catch up with them. But how sensible! I do not need loads of plastic bags for something that is delivered at home.

The Minister needs to look at other departments. Let us have an all-government approach. Someone can go down the road and throw out their McDonalds package, and they can be fined, of course—but how about taking their licence off them? A six-month ban for throwing such rubbish out of a car on to a public highway would affect behaviour and be good not just for the environment but for the safety of every other driver and, indeed, those walking or conveying themselves by other means alongside a highway.

What about this building—the disgrace of all disgraces, the mother of Parliaments, the Palace of Westminster? The Lords is somewhat better than the Commons in the fact that in the Lords it is possible to have—I am certainly offered—non-plastic cutlery. If you go down to the Commons, not just do you get plastic cutlery, but if a simple soul like me wants merely a bowl of porridge and cup of coffee on a morning, they have to have a plastic-wrapped plastic knife and fork along with a plastic spoon. Can the Minister not have words, using his authority, on this absurdity? A spoon would suffice, preferably a washable metal spoon, perhaps made in Sheffield from stainless steel; that would suffice very well—I have managed all my life on them. I do not need a plastic substitute for it with all the other garbage.

When you go for a cup of coffee, in this place like everywhere else, you get a takeaway. But hang on a minute—I do not want to take it that far, I just want to sit down and have it. I would quite like a mug or a cup; a mug will do fine, not a plastic-embossed paper cup with a plastic lid placed on top of it with my health and safety. I have managed, as we have all managed all our lives, for the whole of the last century, to drink tea and coffee out of cups and mugs. We have not needed to have disposables for it. That culture needs changing.

The Minister has a key role, as we all do—but his young energies should be put to this, and this place should be an exemplar not a laggard in dealing with plastic.