Kenya: Kenyan Emergency

Lord Luce Excerpts

Tuesday 18th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

My Lords, I do not intend to answer this question with a view to reopening the debate about the rights and wrongs of that period. Nor do I feel that it is appropriate for me to comment on how the Kenyan Government should respond to this.

[Lord Luce]

My Lords, since the Government have decided to contribute to a memorial in Nairobi to the victims of torture during the Mau Mau emergency, would it not be best to put this whole historic tragedy behind us by contributing to a memorial to all those who suffered—Africans and Europeans alike—during that emergency?

[Baroness Warsi]

I know that the noble Lord comes at this with great experience. If I am correct, he was there during the emergency period. It is something that I can take back but at this moment the commitment that has been made has been for this particular memorial.

Bahrain

Lord Luce Excerpts

Wednesday 21st November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

Certainly, we have these specific discussions regularly around freedom of religion. I spoke with the Foreign Minister when he was here this week specifically about that issue, and we had a lengthy conversation about the Shia-Sunni dynamic in Bahrain. We also spoke about historic coexistence between these two theologies within Islam. Indeed, we had a lengthy conversation about my own history when I explained to him that I was half-Sunni and half-Shia.

[Lord Luce]

While acknowledging the importance of the Question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, would the Minister give some credit to the Government of Bahrain for setting up last year a very distinguished international commission on human rights, which at the end of the year made over 170 recommendations, of which the Government have so far decided to implement 140? Should we not give some credit to the Government of Bahrain for that?

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Lord makes an important point. Indeed, today is the anniversary of the publication of those first ambitions set out in the Bahrain Independent Commission of Inquiry. He is right when he says that 143 of the 176 recommendations were accepted—and, indeed, a further 13 were partially accepted. Bahrain is trying to make progress on these matters, and we are supporting it in doing that.

Piracy

Lord Luce Excerpts

Wednesday 24th October 2012 Lords Chamber

Asked By

[Lord Luce]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they are taking to reduce piracy in the Indian Ocean and to help stabilise the neighbouring states in the Horn of Africa and South Arabia.

[Lord Luce]

My Lords, I hope that the House will agree that this is a relatively good time to focus our short debate on the progress that is being made on reducing piracy in the Indian Ocean and on helping to stabilise neighbouring states in the Horn of Africa and the Arabian peninsula. It would be valuable to hear from the Minister what our assessment is of the present position and the action that HMG are taking together with the international community. I welcome the fact that so many experienced Peers are participating in this debate, not least my former ministerial boss, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Howe.

There can be no doubt that British interests are at stake here. Something like 23,000 ships transit the Gulf of Aden each year, and nearly $1 trillion of trade to and from Europe alone travelled through the gulf last year. The total cost to British commercial interests is thought to be around $10 billion per annum. However, piracy arises from instability in Somalia, and wider regional instability is fuelled by illicit networks operating from Yemen shifting people, weapons and narcotics between Africa and the Arabian peninsula.

Moreover, the disastrous condition in recent years of both countries has provided a base for extremism, expressed through al-Shabaab in Somalia and al-Qaeda in the Arabian peninsula in Yemen. This in turn poses a threat to the international community, as well as to those countries. There is some evidence, for example, that a few British-born Muslims are radicalised by events in that region. We welcome the fact that there are well over 250,000 Somalis living in Britain and something like 70,000 Yemenis, thus giving us a direct link with the region.

There is a British and international interest in reducing piracy by helping to stabilise those two countries. The lessons from the Malacca Straits are that piracy can be more easily tackled if the littoral states are relatively stable. We are helped by an excellent updated report on Indian Ocean piracy by the House of Lords European Union Committee, published on 21 August. From this we learn of the substantial reduction of piracy in the past year. In June this year, eight pirated vessels and 215 hostages were held, compared to 23 vessels and 501 hostages in June 2011.

Could the Minister indicate what lessons can we learn from this? Is the reduction caused by the fact that many ships are now allowed armed guards and that pirate shore bases have been attacked? Is it also the case that drones have been used in the Indian Ocean against pirate ships? I hope that the Minister will also want to say something about the co-ordinated progress being made with neighbouring countries such as Seychelles, Mauritius and Kenya in terms of co-operation over the trials, sentencing and imprisonment of pirates and how the international community is countering the money-laundering of the proceeds from the ransoms.

In general, we should note the value of international military co-operation, with a strong EU/NATO contribution and the participation of ships from China, India and Russia, for example. It is good that the United Kingdom provides leadership of Operation Atalanta but regrettable that we do not provide a patrol ship more regularly.

I turn now to the Horn of Africa. I first explored parts of Somaliland by camel in 1959 and worked among nomadic Somalis in northern Kenya when I became the last British district officer there in 1961. The Somalis are friendly, proud and independent-minded people, dominated by clans and pretty suspicious of foreigners. They are fiercely individualistic and resist central control. Since the 1960s they have been through the Cold War under the tough dictator Siad Barre, and for the past 20 years the country has suffered from conflict and fragmentation, thus providing material for al-Shabaab to exploit. The future of Somalis must be in the hands of Somalis, but HMG are to be congratulated on taking a lead by convening an international conference on the Horn of Africa in London this year, with a second one in Istanbul this summer. How is this being followed up now?

We can at least now welcome the fact that the international African Union force, AMISOM, with the involvement of forces from Burundi, Djibouti, Uganda and Kenya, has driven al-Shabaab out of Mogadishu and Kismayo. Against that background, the disastrous transitional Government have come to an end, and it is most welcome that President Mohamoud, who is a committed Somalian academic and activist, has been elected as president. The elected constituent assembly is tasked to develop a constitution for Somalia.

However, experts will stress that it is vital to acknowledge that, while Somalia is generally made up of a single ethnic group, the clan system means that they tend to resist strong control from central government. This has led to fragmentation, and each region is different. For example, Somaliland is now relatively stable and has an elected parliament and president, with municipal elections to follow shortly. The harsh experience of the past 40 years means that the northern Somalilanders do not want complete reintegration with the rest of Somalia. It must therefore be up to the Somaliland leaders to negotiate their future relationship with Somalia as their new constitution is being prepared. Many want independence and others some kind of confederal arrangement. The ultimate political settlement has to suit the Somali character.

Knowing the history of Somalia, I think it would be risky to be too optimistic, but the international community must continue to capitalise on recent developments and do everything to encourage its new president to work in partnership with the clans, business and civic society. We for our part must provide our development assistance only where it will be used productively, not wasted through corruption, as happened with the recent transitional Government. Are we, for example, encouraging alternative livelihoods to piracy?

I turn briefly to Yemen, where there is a close link with the Horn as many Somalis have emigrated to that country, and some to Saudi Arabia. Indeed, it is worth highlighting the fact that the camel, sheep and cattle trade across the Red Sea to Saudi Arabia is the biggest cross-border livestock trade in the world, with the potential for constructive wealth creation as opposed to piracy and conflict. The country is undergoing a fragile but significant two-year political transition process, following a popular “Arab Spring” uprising that dislodged the long-serving President Saleh from power. The international community is united in its support for the transition process but the challenges ahead are immense—namely, addressing the grievances of separatists in the south and “Houthi” rebels in the north, as well as tackling extremism. Poverty is acute, with 46% living on only $2 a day. A large number suffer from severe food shortages. Oil and water supplies are diminishing.

Chatham House should be congratulated on producing some excellent analyses and assessments of that strife-torn country. It warns of how the multimillion-dollar shadow business networks spanning the Gulf of Aden hinder counterterrorism and counterpiracy strategies. The national dialogue is due to begin in November under the stewardship of Yemen’s new caretaker president. President Hadi needs to embrace all Yemenis in these discussions, to examine ways in which power can be diffused and to encourage the development of local communities. He is right to give priority to security and the defeat of al-Qaeda, but he will not be likely to carry the people with him unless he encourages economic and social development at the same time. I am glad that the United Kingdom is co-chairing, with Saudi Arabia, the Friends of Yemen international group to encourage development pledges and economic investment. Yemeni civil society organisations, however, must be allowed to play an oversight role in all this.

I hope that the Minister will give her assessment of the situation in Yemen under President Hadi. Above all, while I strongly support Britain playing its part internationally, it is the people of those countries who must be given the framework and encouragement to build their own future. It is the African Union and the Gulf countries which must play a leading and prominent role in supporting them. For our part, we must also encourage some of the Somali and Yemeni diaspora in the United Kingdom to contribute not only their very substantial remittances but also their skills to the rebuilding of their countries of origin. I commend the excellent work of the Royal African Society in facilitating contact and dialogue with the diaspora.

There is a better alternative for the region than destructive piracy, civil conflict and terrorism. We must keep on encouraging it.

Gibraltar

Lord Luce Excerpts

Monday 16th July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord is quite right about the increase in the number of these incursions. The problem about referring the issue to the International Court of Justice is that of course it requires all involved parties to agree to it, which does not appear to be in prospect. We believe that the right way forward is the one we are adopting, which is that the response should be measured, we should continue to press the Spanish Government very carefully and there is no point raising the temperature or tension in these matters, as they can be resolved by discussion. We would like of course to go back to the trilateral talks based on the Cordoba agreement, if we could. They were progressing, but that route, too, seems blocked. The way forward is, as I have described, to insist that these are unlawful maritime incursions and should not be accepted. We raise them in the strongest possible terms with the Spanish Government at every opportunity.

[Lord Luce]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that some 12 years ago, when I was governor of Gibraltar, we faced similar problems, and that there are lessons to be learnt from all this? In welcoming the setting up of the working party by the Government of Gibraltar to work with Spanish fisherman and environmental experts to try to find a way forward, will the Minister nevertheless assure the House that the British Government are providing whatever naval presence is needed to uphold sovereignty?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Yes, I can give that assurance, and there have been no complaints from the Gibraltar Government about the lack of adequate resources. There is the Gibraltar squadron, which has two patrol craft, some rigid-framed inflatable boats and crews. The responses they work out can be preceded by radio warnings, but they are effective and will continue, so I can give that assurance.

Middle East

Lord Luce Excerpts

Friday 16th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Luce]

My Lords, I am delighted to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Symons, and her formidable tour d’horizon based on her tremendous knowledge and experience of the Middle East. I will start by making a few general reflections before coming to one or two specific points.

I agree with the Minister that the Arab world has started down a road that will be long and hard. It is exciting, but it is also very dangerous, and the early euphoria of so many people, with which we all sympathised, has now led to greater realism some 13 or 14 months later. Each country is very different. Arab civilisation was perhaps at its greatest in its first 500 years. Arabs today, particularly young ones, are yearning for more freedom, more knowledge and more education, and the women yearn to have a greater say in the affairs of their country.

The dramatic changes of the past few months have brought about economic disruption, which is inevitable, and this raises the question that the Minister referred to: the challenge for each of these countries to manage growing expectations. We think of the experience of South Africa, the expectations raised when Mandela became the first black president and the very great problems that it is going to have to grapple with in coming years. Then there are the richer Arab countries with oil that are throwing money at supporting Arabs on benefits and investing in infrastructure, the public sector and so on. That is fine up to a point, but it is unlikely in the long term to answer the aspirations of younger people.

All this is against the background of increasing fundamentalism, strains between Sunni and Shia—just as we had strains between Roman Catholics and Protestants—the historic strains between the Arabs and the Persians and the growing intolerance that arises from that. We have already had a debate in this House about the treatment of the Christians, who are an integral part of the Middle East. It is interesting to observe that the three Abrahamic faiths have managed historically from time to time to live peacefully together. Is it not about time that they renewed their common bonds rather than divided?

Then there is the reference by all of us to democracy. It has taken us centuries to evolve the system we have today, and each of those countries, with different degrees of sophistication, will need to develop the rule of law and a free press to create the right conditions. Some argue that there should be no elections until that happens. I think that is wrong. I think elections can help to point countries in the right direction. Certainly, we have seen that in Egypt and Tunisia and more recently in Kuwait.

From all this has emerged the political parties—the Minister referred to this—particularly the Islamic parties coming into parliaments in Egypt, Tunisia and Kuwait, which brings out the question of the relationship between religion and politics, with which we have grappled in Europe over time. We still have an established church here. We have had Christian democratic parties in Europe. They will have to grapple with these problems too, hopefully taking Turkey as much as possible as a model to follow.

All these countries are grappling with systems of accountability and the rule of law, and each one is different. Egypt has to decide on the relationship between political parties and the military. Tunisia has stronger middle classes, women play a prominent role, and it has a civic society. Libya has had 42 years of dictatorship and now has been given a chance. Syria, of course, is a disaster, but one positive point emerging from this is that Hamas appears to be turning away from Syria and Iran towards the Muslim Brotherhood.

I should like to say a word about the Gulf monarchies, many of which could evolve into constitutional monarchies if they handle things in the right way. Speaking as someone who has been to Bahrain since the 1950s, the spring of last year was a great disappointment to me. The events were extremely bad and damaging, but at the same time, when something positive happens, it is very important that in this country, in the media and in Parliament, we acknowledge and encourage it. To my mind, it was remarkable that the king decided to appoint an international commission and allow it to make recommendations, all of which he has committed to fulfil. I wonder how many other countries would do that. Would we be prepared to have an international commission and implement all its recommendations? It is important that we give encouragement where encouragement is due; otherwise our influence in those areas will erode.

It is a polarised society with a Shia majority and a Sunni Government. It is vital for the Bahraini Government to demonstrate that they are treating the Shia and the Sunnis as equal under the law. Here, the position of Saudi Arabia is critical, as is our relationship with Saudi Arabia. Although King Abdullah is trying to introduce some reforms in this country, we acknowledge that there is a Shia community on the Bahrain borders. If Saudi Arabia tries to restrain the Bahraini Government from reforming, all I can say is that it could be totally and utterly counterproductive for Saudi Arabia, let alone the other Gulf countries. I hope that the British Government and other friends of Saudi Arabia are having an intense dialogue with it about that.

I end on the Indian Ocean and the Horn of Africa, interlinked with the Middle East. Some 25 per cent of world trade passes through the Indian Ocean and the Gulf of Aden, where it is threatened by piracy and terrorism. The Malacca Strait’s experience of piracy shows that it is essential to stabilise the littoral states. I congratulate the British Government on taking the lead and convening an international conference to try to build stability in that area, particularly in the Horn, and to work with the international community in getting the regions of the Horn and the clans to co-operate together by building up the peacekeeping forces and working to defeat piracy through criminalising the proceeds of ransom money.

A key to this is Somaliland, which is becoming increasingly stable and successful. The British Government are rightly giving support to enhancing security, and strengthening health and education services, the private sector and so on. But the Somalis are a very proud people. I have worked with them. They are an independent-minded people who are ruthlessly suppressed by Siad Barre, the President until 1991. It is crucial that we build on the success of Somaliland and give it every encouragement. I hope that it will be encouraged to negotiate with the newly formed and emerging Government in Mogadishu so that it can decide what kind of relationship it will have with them in the future.

I have run out of time and I hope that others will deal with the very difficult problems of Palestine and Iran.

Iran

Lord Luce Excerpts

Tuesday 24th January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

This is an idea, an aim and an ambition that the Government fully share. The idea of a WMD or nuclear-weapon-free zone in the Middle East is one to which we certainly subscribe, and this must be a longer-term aim. How we get from here to there is, of course, the problem. Prince Turki al-Faisal is an extremely wise and perceptive commentator and certainly I read very closely everything he had to say on the matter. That would be the ideal. How we would get from here to there would certainly include how we deal with the situation not only in Iran but also in Israel.

[Lord Luce]

My Lords, I fully support these robust sanctions. Will the Minister not agree that there seems to be an ineluctable slide towards conflict, which could erupt from an incident of any kind? Iran is a very important country with a remarkable history. Is there not a very strong case for telling the Iranians that we should resume negotiations not only on nuclear issues but on much broader matters of mutual concern in the region, and on bilateral relations?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

This kind of approach would be very good, if we could get Iran to recognise that it must conform to the IAEA requirements and if we could have some trust and reassurance that it is not moving surreptitiously to the full weaponisation of its nuclear programme. If that assurance was there and if Iran was prepared to talk, we could certainly develop closer relations with what, after all, is a very great country that deserves respect—although it forfeits it by some of its actions—for its history and prominence in the region, and we could move in that direction. However, to get Iran even to come to the table on that basis has so far proved impossible.

Iran

Lord Luce Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2011 Lords Chamber

Asked By

[Lord Luce]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their response to the report of the International Atomic Energy Agency on Iran’s development of nuclear devices.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, this report from the International Atomic Energy Agency clearly indicates that Iran has worked on developing nuclear weapons and that some of this work is continuing. We support the production of this report by the agency and call on Iran to take the necessary steps to assure the international community that it is not pursuing a military nuclear programme. We will be pressing for strong action when the agency’s board of governors meets later this week.

[Lord Luce]

My Lords, since, as the Minister indicated, there is growingly credible evidence that Iran is developing a capability to introduce and develop nuclear devices, and against the background of a dangerously volatile region in the Middle East, would the Minister agree that we should work extremely hard to persuade China, Russia, Israel, the Arab nations—all of us, in all our interest—to work in a concerted fashion to introduce tougher international sanctions that hurt Iran, but keeping literally as a last resort the possibility of military measures?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Yes, I would certainly agree. We are all—and “all” means the entire planet—threatened by nuclear proliferation and the flouting of the proliferation regime which Iran has constantly demonstrated. The noble Lord is absolutely right that although we have an unprecedented degree of sanctions, and are thinking of more sanctions and more targeted sanctions, as long as China tends to be undermining these—and, to some extent, Russia as well—those sanctions are obviously weakened in their effect. So, he is right that we all have to work together to halt a threat that is really to the entire pattern of humanity.

Commonwealth Parliamentary Association

Lord Luce Excerpts

Thursday 8th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Luce]

This occasion shows that there is a growing feeling on the need to renew the strength of the Commonwealth and gives new impetus to that. The attendance at this debate is higher than at any former Commonwealth debate I have ever attended and the interest in the subject is stronger than I have ever seen. I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Hooper, on the way in which she introduced the whole subject and the timing of the debate.

The approaching Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in Australia in October will have, as has been referred to by many noble Lords, the report and recommendations of the Eminent Persons Group. Having seen the first draft of that report, I have every reason to believe that it will be robust and strong in its recommendations. The Heads of Government have to be robust and strong in deciding whether they will implement some of the recommendations. In addition, as has already been referred to, there is the Diamond Jubilee next year in which there will be opportunities to mark the Commonwealth and the commitment of this Government to give added strength to it, led, I am pleased to say, by the Minister.

The Commonwealth exists as an opportunity for us to take, as equal partners. It is a pragmatic, evolutionary group of nations representing a whole cross-section of the world. It is voluntary; it is not a treaty; it is not NATO; it is not the United Nations or the European Union. It looks in an informal way for practical solutions to problems, and it can add value to the work that we ourselves do bilaterally and multilaterally with other bodies. It is unique and it provides us with an opportunity which we can take if we wish.

There are two main points I want to make. First, I start on the non-governmental side, because I think that the people-to-people connection in the Commonwealth is in fact its heart; that is what it is really all about. We have a vast pattern of connections—in the various speeches we have heard today we have already seen a massive demonstration of this. It is not just the CPA, which is a very important association, but all the other connections in the field of education and so forth. There are more than 90 professional bodies, a mass of civic society bodies, and a mass of NGOs which all provide a sort of pattern. I declare an interest as president of the Royal Over-Seas League, which does educational work in three African Commonwealth countries and holds a Commonwealth music competition. I am also president of the new Commonwealth Youth Orchestra; music, of course, unites rather than divides nations. There are so many other organisations across the board, in every field, from universities, to law, to the Commonwealth Jewish Council, the Commonwealth Press Union, and so on, which demonstrate this vast pattern of links between us all.

The Commonwealth Foundation seems to be the basis upon which we can move forward. I was its chairman for five years in the 1990s. I know that the Eminent Persons Group will advocate for that foundation to be strengthened. It can act as a catalyst and facilitator of contacts within the Commonwealth on the non-government and civic society side. I think particularly of young people. I suggest that to mark the Diamond Jubilee and the 60th anniversary of Her Majesty being Head of the Commonwealth next year, the heads of government devise some kind of Commonwealth legacy which will devote itself to strengthening the Commonwealth for young people and civic society in particular. I hope a lot of thought will be given to this for next year.

The other point I wish to make regards the government-to-government side. I welcome the Eminent Persons Group’s belief that it is most important that we strengthen the governance systems of the Commonwealth and methods for dealing with conflict resolution. It is here that the Commonwealth must practise what they preach, committed to so often by heads of government. We should devise and set high standards, and should be robust with those who do not stand up to those standards—I hope that that is what will emerge. The heads of government will have to be courageous if they are going to commit themselves to that. The Secretary-General of the Commonwealth will have to be very robust in speaking up from time to time on maintaining standards within the Commonwealth.

This Government and heads of government must be sharp in defining their priorities. If we try to do too many things in the Commonwealth, we will not achieve a great deal. Remembering that 50 per cent of Commonwealth citizens are under 25, I hope that a lot of priority will be given to young people. As far as membership is concerned, I hope there will be a separate debate on the subject of the former British Somaliland—an issue raised by my friend, the noble Lord, Lord Howell, which I want to endorse. It was a great pity that the former British Somaliland was not allowed to enter the Commonwealth when it became independent in 1960. Perhaps new opportunities will be provided for us to debate this, as well as the prospects for South Sudan and other countries to join the Commonwealth. We now have this opportunity to rejuvenate the Commonwealth, and I hope the heads of government will take it in October.

Sudan: Framework Agreement

Lord Luce Excerpts

Tuesday 5th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

For a start, as the right reverent Prelate surely knows, we are backing and funding to a substantial degree the African Union implementation panel, over which President Mbeki presides and into which he is putting enormous efforts. That is our expression of support for the continuing work of the panel and of the products of the panel, including the framework agreement signed on 28 June, to which the noble Lord, Lord Alton, has already referred. We hope that will stay in place and will secure the beginnings of some order, particularly in South Kordofan where a whole confused range of Arab and non-Arab forces—some allegedly belonging to the south but in the north, and some in the north but belonging to the south—are fighting each other. We are backing the Mbeki implementation panel and, through that, many African Union people think that the best solutions will come.

There is an argument, which I only put before your Lordships, that while we must support the humanitarian efforts and do everything we can to support peace, the African Union itself is anxious that it and not outside powers should solve its problems.

[Lord Luce]

My Lords, since Southern Sudan is proceeding this week towards independence—in what we all agree is a very dangerous and very precarious situation which could lead to further disasters—may I reinforce the point made by my noble friend Lord Alton that, as a sponsor of the comprehensive peace agreement and with all our responsibilities over 60 years with the Sudan, we should pull out all the stops to persuade the international community, particularly the African community, to help hold the ring in that part of the world?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord will recognise, I am sure, that we are doing so. Enormous efforts are being made on the diplomatic front, both in the UN and with the African Union and with all other parties involved. On top of that, the UK is one of the chief funders and backers of development—medium, short and long-term—in both Khartoum Sudan and Southern Sudan. We are not merely talking and making pleas for the ceasefire, of course we have to do that, but we are putting our money where our mouth is and making very substantial and solid commitments to a better future for these countries, which we hope will begin after 9 July.

Gibraltar

Lord Luce Excerpts

Tuesday 14th June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We agree with Peter Caruana completely. We also take the view that, as these are British Government sovereign waters, any redesignation is for us and not for Spain.

[Lord Luce]

I declare an interest as a former Governor of Gibraltar. Does the Minister not agree that the trilateral forum, to which he referred, has made a great deal of progress in recent years in bringing, through economic co-operation, benefits to the people of Spain in the region, as well as to Gibraltarians? Does he also agree that, so long as the Spanish Government—a fellow member of NATO and the European Union—behave in this unacceptable fashion, it will not be possible to make further progress?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I would not for a moment dare to disagree with such a distinguished former Governor of Gibraltar. We seek from the Spanish authorities, who are our friends and allies in many parts of the world, an understanding that these matters can be handled by the trilateral forum of dialogue process and that these incursions—this one has a higher profile because it involved the Spanish navy, whereas normally it is the Spanish Guardia Civil which causes these incursions—add nothing to the hopes for resolution. Every time this occurs, we respond with the utmost urgency and the strongest protest that this is not the way forward.