House of Lords Reform Bill [HL]

Lord Low of Dalston Excerpts

Friday 21st October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

If that is the sense of the House, the appropriate procedure, as I have been informed by the Clerk, is to go through from Amendment 1, not moving the various amendments and knocking out each clause as we come to the clause stand part debates, and then deal with Amendment 163, which is an amendment to the Title of the Bill. We will then have achieved what several Members of the House have suggested is the consensus in the appropriate procedural manner.

[Lord Low of Dalston]

With great respect, is it not possible for us to achieve what I think the House as a whole wants to achieve in a more expeditious way that does not simply rely on a self-denying ordinance on the part of the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne, and the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, or the rather more laborious procedure that has just been suggested? Is it competent for me to move that the House do now proceed straight to consider Amendment 163?

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

My Lords, the expression on the Clerk’s face said it all. I am sorry it was not possible for everyone to see it. The appropriate procedure would be to allow the Chairman to proceed on this basis. We will then come to Amendment 163. We do have procedures in the House that we have to follow.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Trefgarne]

My Lords, before my noble friend Lord Steel, or the House, decides how to proceed, I should say that I take slight issue with my noble friend Lord Cormack referring to this Bill—as did other noble Lords—as a little housekeeping Bill. It does away with the hereditary Peer by-elections. That is not a simple housekeeping matter. Whatever may be noble Lords’ views on it, it is an important issue and, we say, goes to the heart of the undertakings given back in 1999. This is not a small housekeeping Bill—it has important constitutional ramifications—and I hope that it will not be characterised as such.

[Lord Low of Dalston]

My Lords, may I move that the House resolves to proceed by the most expeditious and efficacious procedure, as advised by the Clerk, to consider Amendment 163?

[Lord Steel of Aikwood]

My Lords, for reasons that have already been explained, the Companion states that we cannot do that. We have to deal with all the other amendments before we get to Amendment 163. That is not my wish; it is actually in the Companion.

[Lord Steel of Aikwood]

We can do it. If Members would stop talking, we could get on.

[Lord Low of Dalston]

My Lords, with respect, I wanted to suggest that we follow precisely the correct procedure of which the Clerk has advised us; that is, to go as briskly as we can through all the earlier amendments and clauses and arrive at Amendment 163 as rapidly as we can.

[Lord Steel of Aikwood]

My Lords—