Police and Crime Commissioners

Lord Lexden Excerpts

Monday 31st October 2022 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Lexden]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have to review the powers and functions of police and crime commissioners.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, I have two objectives. The first is to draw together and reiterate a number of concerns which I have raised in speeches and in Oral Questions and Written Questions over the last four years. My concerns relate to misconduct in three of the areas where police and crime commissioners are elected under current arrangements—Wiltshire, Leicestershire and Cleveland.

My second objective is to take the Government to task for doing nothing to bear down on the cases of misconduct which have given rise to my long-standing concerns. Regarding the Government, I have tried hard to make some progress by seeking a discussion with the Home Secretary. In an Oral Question on 18 July, I asked for a meeting to be arranged which a small group, drawn from across the House, could attend. I got in touch with a few Members in the opposition parties and on the Cross Benches to see whether they could take part. Unsurprisingly, ministerial changes complicated and delayed matters over the summer, but towards the end of last month, I enlisted the help of my noble friend Lord Sharpe of Epsom in finally fixing a date for the long-awaited meeting. On 26 September, he told me that he would pursue the matter, adding,

“I will come back to you as soon as I can.”


I have heard nothing further from him.

However, I have heard from his private office, which sent me the following email on 18 October:

“Thought I would provide an update now that we are post recess. I have reached out to the Home Secretary’s office again and due to her increasingly busy schedule she will be unable to commit to a meeting.”


The House will understand that my hopes of securing action by the Government have not been strengthened, rather it seems clearer than ever that the Government will continue to stand idly by in the face of my serious concerns. This debate is their opportunity to prove me wrong.

All this is very dispiriting, so let me make it plain that in using the limited time available to me to express worries and anxieties about specific issues, I cast no aspersions on the many police and crime commissioners, connected or unconnected with a political party, who are serving their communities with devotion and success. Since this year marks the 10th anniversary of the introduction of elected police and crime commissioners, it would be wrong not to pay tribute to what they have achieved, while at the same time expressing a little regret that they have not become better known and brought the system of which they are part widespread popularity. Opinion polls suggest that nearly half the country have never heard of them.

Here is another matter on which the Government could usefully exert themselves. If they took a sustained interest in the work of the commissioners, and made speeches about it, the public’s knowledge would increase. They have rejected other chances to show an interest in police and crime commissioners. If the noble Lord, Lord Bew, had been able to take part in this debate, he would have mentioned a report by his Committee on Standards in Public Life about police and crime commissioners. The report has been completely ignored by the Home Office.

The deep concerns that I mentioned at the outset are all connected with one person, Mike Veale. I have referred to him many times in the House over the years. He is at the centre of an issue of deep injustice. He is not a man lacking in regard for himself. In self-promoting publicity, he states, regarding his year as chief constable of Cleveland, a post from which he was forced to resign in 2019:

“I was responsible for the development and delivery of a compelling strategic vision … I am able to operate within my ethical and moral boundaries without compromising my values and integrity.”


His record tells a rather different story.

I first became aware of Mr Veale when, in 2015, as chief constable of Wiltshire and in charge of Operation Conifer, he sent officers to go through all Sir Edward Heath’s voluminous papers in the Bodleian Library, in the hope of finding evidence to show that the deceased statesman was guilty of the child sex crimes alleged by the notorious fantasist, Carl Beech, who is now serving a long prison sentence.

Veale said he was convinced that Sir Edward was “120 per cent guilty”. One of his senior officers stood outside Sir Edward’s house and appealed for witnesses against him. Veale destroyed his mobile telephone and so concealed its contents. Unable to substantiate any of the allegations against Sir Edward, he left seven of them open, neither proved nor disproved, in an obvious attempt to save face. Not a shred of evidence has been adduced to support any of these allegations against a public servant of immense distinction.

The then PCC for Wiltshire, Mr Angus Macpherson, said that he would establish an independent inquiry into Operation Conifer, but then changed his mind and called on the Government to set it up. The Government accepted that they had the power to intervene, the one exception to their normal Pontius Pilate stance, but then refused to use it. They say today that there is no need for them to do anything because Operation Conifer has now been carefully scrutinised. That was the line they took when writing in July to Lord MacGregor, a former Cabinet Minister who has now retired from the House, in reply to a letter from him sent to the Home Office one year—I repeat, one year—earlier.

That was no answer at all. Conifer has been scrutinised by the police themselves, not by an independent body. The Wiltshire PCC even allowed Veale to set up his own hand-picked scrutiny panel. Thanks to the Wiltshire PCC and a supine Home Office, Veale was left to transgress elsewhere. His brief stint as chief constable for Cleveland was investigated by the Independent Office for Police Conduct. After two years—things rarely move swiftly where police misconduct is concerned—the IOPC found in 2021 that Veale had

“breached standards of professional behaviour”.

On 2 August last year, the PCC for Cleveland announced that Veale would be referred “shortly” to an independent panel, where he would face gross misconduct proceedings. It is a legal requirement that such proceedings begin within 100 days, yet, by my rather shaky calculations, time ran out for Veale on 11 November last year. Very nearly 12 months later, proceedings have yet to begin.

During this period, Veale has been raking in an annual salary of some £100,000 as adviser to the so-called Conservative PCC for Leicestershire, one Rupert Matthews. He must have taken instruction in the Boris Johnson school of ethics. On 7 March, the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, asked the then Minster, the noble Baroness, Lady Williams of Trafford:

“Does she accept that, in many areas of public and private life, persons against whom serious allegations are made are suspended from their office, employment or other contributions to public life while an investigation is conducted? Why is that not happening here?”—[Official Report, 7/2/22; col. 1120.]


The answer he was given bore no relation to the question.

Answers, the Government say, must be sought not from them but from the relevant police and crime commissioners, so a public-spirited person, well known to me, has been doing just that. He has asked Mr Matthews several times to justify employing the discredited Veale. On 9 August last year, Matthews’s casework officer replied. Veale, she said, was being employed for six months. She added that

“it is important to note that he is currently not in breach of any misconduct regulations. The investigation is ongoing, and it would therefore be inappropriate to comment on anything in relation to that at this time”.

All further requests for a proper explanation were ignored until last month, when the same words were sent again, preceded by the following:

“This matter was discussed at the Police and Crime Panel for Leicestershire.”


Why was Veale still there long after the expiry of the six-month arrangement? To that, there was silence.

Is Cleveland more open and accountable? Not exactly. The PCC was asked in July why Veale’s misconduct hearing had not started. An executive assistant in his office replied:

“I have spoken to the Police & Crime Commissioner Steve Turner, and he has advised me this is currently being reviewed by our Chief Executive.”


In October, she was asked whether the review had been completed. The person who could supply an answer was on annual leave. She said:

“I will speak to her upon her return to the office and send you an update with regard to the review.”


At this rate, Veale will retire on a fat pension, and never answer for his misconduct.

What is needed is a Minister at the Home Office who will challenge the well-entrenched attitude in it that PCCs should be left entirely to their own devices, as if they constituted a separate estate of the realm. It is an attitude that makes effective accountability impossible. That accountability is not going to come from the small number of local electors who take an interest in the work of PCCs. Who but the elected Government is going to stop the offices of PCCs fobbing off inquirers with feeble and totally inadequate answers?

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Sharpe of Epsom) (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords for their contributions and very much congratulate my noble friend Lord Lexden as well on securing this important debate. I know that the topic has long been of interest to him, and a wide range of views have been expressed relating to the roles and responsibilities of police and crime commissioners this evening. I ought to remind the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, that the policy was introduced under the coalition Government. I do not believe that the model is broken, but I will come on to that in a second.

I also reassure my noble friend Lord Lexden that I am certainly not idle, but he may have noticed that I have had three bosses since he wrote his letter. I am still busily asking for the meeting that he requested. My predecessor asked for that meeting, which I am afraid was denied, but I will continue to persevere.

Before I get on to the bulk of the more general points, perhaps I may go into Operation Conifer to answer my noble friend Lord Lexden’s specific questions about that unfortunate case. Obviously I understand the strength of feeling on this matter. However, the Government have no plans to commission a review of either the conduct of the investigation into allegations made against Sir Edward Heath or the findings of that investigation. It is unfortunate, of course, that Operation Conifer was not able to resolve conclusively the position in respect of all the allegations made against Sir Edward Heath. I understand the desire of noble Lords to find a solution but the investigation has already been subject to considerable external scrutiny. I will go into that in a bit of detail.

There were three main bits of scrutiny. First, there was an independent scrutiny panel—I stress “independent”—to ensure proportionality. Secondly, there were two reviews by Operation Hydrant in September 2016 and May 2017, which concluded that the investigation was proportionate, legitimate and in accordance with national guidance. Thirdly, there was a review in January 2017 by Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary as to whether resources assigned to the investigation by the Home Office were deployed in accordance with value-for-money principles; the review concluded that they were. Finally, the Wiltshire PCC then referred two matters regarding Mike Veale to the IOPC. That is a lot of external scrutiny, if we are being objective about this.

I am going to talk more generally about the police and crime commissioner model and try to answer all noble Lords’ specific points. We accept that policing is a unique public service, but like any public service—I think all noble Lords acknowledge this—it needs to be transparent and accountable to the public. The introduction of PCCs in 2012 has brought real local accountability to how chief constables and their forces perform, ensuring that the public have a stronger voice in policing.

I say to the noble Lord, Lord Bach, that I have no particular knowledge of his successor; I do not know him, and I do not know what he has been doing in Leicester. I would have thought that, given what the noble Lord has said about him tonight, he is very accountable to his public. If he has behaved as described, then he deserves what is coming to him. PCCs operate in the full gaze of the media and must justify their record via the ballot box. This is in stark contrast to the invisible and unaccountable police authorities that preceded them. I will go on a little bit until we get to the review, then I will talk a little about complaints.

We are approaching the 10-year anniversary of their introduction and we think it is important to recognise the vital role that PCCs play in the public safety landscape. They work with their communities to focus on local priorities, using their convening powers to drive crime-fighting efforts in their areas and advocate for victims across the criminal justice system. PCCs have a strong involvement in work to tackle some of the most significant issues facing our society, including county lines, anti-social behaviour and violence against women and girls. There are lots of examples of that. I will go back to one from my friend Katy Bourne, the PCC in Sussex. She points out that 10 years ago, for example, only 20% of police and crime plans referenced prevention and now it is included in all police and crime plans. That is a direct, positive feature of the introduction of police and crime commissioners.

I will go on to the review, which the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, and the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, referred to. It is vital that PCCs continue to be strong and visible leaders in the fight against crime. That is why in July 2020 the Government announced a two-part review into PCCs to strengthen their role, to ensure that they are accountable to the public and that they have the tools and levers to carry out their role effectively. Recommendations from parts 1 and 2 were announced by Written Ministerial Statement in March 2021 and 2022 respectively.

These measures will sharpen local accountability and improve the consistency and quality of scrutiny by police and crime panels, as we were talking about earlier, and make it easier for the public to hold their PCC to account for their record on reducing crime. They will also ensure that PCCs have the necessary tools and levers to cut crime and will turn the dial on their involvement in the criminal justice system, giving PCCs a more defined role in relation to offender management and strengthening their role in key local partnerships. Of course, the proof will be in the pudding. That is why we have retained a relentless focus on delivery to realise the benefits of these important recommendations as quickly as possible. We have moved to multi-year violence reduction unit funding to facilitate long-term preventative strategies, better enabling PCCs to develop long-term strategies for reducing crime in their locality.

We have amended the specified information order to improve PCCs’ transparency by requiring them to provide a narrative on the Government’s crime outcomes, their force’s His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire and Rescue Services performance reports and further complaint-handling information. We have also strengthened the scrutiny of PCCs by publishing new guidance for police and crime panels, including a variety of training tools such as videos, good-practice guides and sharing best practice, as referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Coaker. Also under discussion, and which I probably should have mentioned earlier in Questions, are regional panels. These are being looked at in terms of the police and crime panels as a way of ensuring that best practice is shared.

I take the point that publicity around the role of PCCs could be improved. I am going to get to the subject of the relationship between PCCs and chief constables. It would be important to answer the right reverend Prelate’s concerns and the question of the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, about the breakdown in communication and trust between those two roles. For a PCC to deliver to the community they serve, they need to have a strong working relationship with their chief constable. That has to recognise the operational independence of policing but also the local mandate of the PCC to deliver on local priorities.

The right reverend Prelate referred to the situation with Dame Cressida Dick. During the debate on the review of the noble Baroness, Lady Casey, a week ago, I referred—at some length, I am afraid—to the mayor and MOPAC’s complex relationship with the Home Secretary in regard to this. I refer noble Lords to that in Hansard. On the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, I do not think that anyone is blaming anyone; it is a complex relationship, and the lines unfortunately crossed on a number of occasions.

Through the PCC review, we heard loud and clear the need for clarification of the working relationships between policing system partners. This is one of the primary reasons why we consulted on the Policing Protocol Order 2011—I note the point of the noble Baroness, Lady Jones—to ensure that we are able to support effective and constructive working relationships in the policing sector as well as possible. These responses are currently being considered, and we will update in due course.

We are also working with the sector to further develop the existing PCC and chief constable accountability guidance, which is designed to embed healthy working relationships between PCCs and chief constables, as well as outlining a framework for mediation for relationships that may be at risk of breaking down. We will also bring forward legislative amendments to make the chief constable suspension and dismissal process more rigorous and transparent, which in turn will make it fairer, ensuring that the chief constable has a voice.

I take the point about chief officer recruitment, which a number of noble Lords referred to. We want to ensure that there is a wide, well-rounded and diverse pool of candidates for appointment to chief officer ranks. We also want to ensure that there are consistent and high standards in selection processes. We welcome the College of Policing’s proposals for fundamental change to the current system, following a full independent review of progression and development to chief officer ranks. These measures will increase transparency and open up access to senior officer level development.

We continue to engage with local areas developing devolution deals to expand the mayoral PCC model, in line with the Government’s wider devolution and levelling-up agenda, and we have published our response to the consultation on giving PCCs greater powers of competence.

Time allows me to talk a little about the PCC complaints process, to which my noble friend Lord Lexden referred. Our announcement of the PCC review recommendations did not make specific recommendations on the PCC complaints system, and we are still committed to developing reforms in this area. This includes ensuring that there is clarity on what constitutes misconduct or a breach of expected standards by PCCs, deciding which body is best placed to handle certain types of complaints, ensuring that the system does not give rise to vexatious complaints and ensuring the effective handling of criminal allegations against PCCs.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

What do the Government plan to do to prevent serious misconduct hearings being indefinitely delayed, as has happened in Cleveland? What will the Government do to get clear answers to public inquiries made to the offices of police and crime commissioners, instead of the hopeless and inadequate answers that I cited?